Gambling and sin

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I think gambling (like drinking) is a vice that can lead to sin but when exactly does gambling become a sinful practice or even mortally sinful?

Obviously if you steal money from others to gamble then it seems to be mortally sinful. But where exactly is the “line” not to cross? Affordability and your reasons for gambling? Would it be sinful say, to gamble at high limit stakes if you can’t afford it?
 
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Perhaps it’s easier to say when gambling is not a sin. I would say all of the following need to be true for it not to be a sin.
  1. you can easily afford any loss
  2. any other party directly involved with your bet can also easily afford the loss
  3. it’s legal
 
I never heard of a successful gambler.

I’d never be friends again with one either. Why ?
Because they need to pay off debts - or else -
and they sponge off friends - saying they got a sure bet they’ll win on.

I hear - they have Gamblers Anonymous meetings - imagine -
 
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Drinking is not a vice. Drinking to excess is a vice.

Gambling in itself is not a vice or sinful, but can become sinful if it can result in grave loss to others or yourself.
 
I hear - they have Gamblers Anonymous meetings - imagine
Why is that hard to imagine? It’s an addictive behavior for some and they need help dealing with it. You could stand to be a little less holier-than-thou.

Besides, you’re describing hardcore gamblers with an addiction. There are plenty of people who go to the casino once in awhile who don’t take it nearly that far. It’s like lumping everyone who has a drink on Friday night in with alcoholics.
 
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When Texas Hold 'Em was big, I liked getting together to play with my friends for low stakes, and that was fun, because it was sociable. I knew them; we had a relationship with each other away from the gaming table; it was fun. I found that I was a very cautious player, so I knew I’d be terrible if I tried playing at casino tables-- but it was cool being a cautious player with my friends, because they knew I was cautious-- and so I was able to take a little advantage of their expectations of me. But the numbers, of course, never work out so that you had a strong hand so regularly, that you can win on the basis of strength vs bluff. My friends, though, were all about percentages and stuff, and really had it down to a science, and they did much better with Internet poker (back before it was banned) or casino poker.

Even though I knew casinos weren’t my speed, I went, just to get a feel for what it was like. It was very dreary, very depressing. The actual poker tables themselves weren’t any fun at all. I was out in about two hands, because I was being shoved around by a guy who had nothing, and we both knew he had nothing, but I had nothing, too, and I couldn’t shove back. I’d much rather take my $100 and go spend it on eBay or Amazon, and know that I’ve got what I want in my hands at the end of the day. 🙂

When we went to Vegas, I didn’t play a single game. I was all about the shows and the sights and the food— but I never even played a slot machine. Gambling is for people who are either very, very good at math, or very, very bad at math. 😄

As to when it becomes sinful— it becomes sinful when it gets in the way of what you’re supposed to be doing. If you’re supposed to be paying the rent, and you ran off to Foxwoods hoping to quadruple your money— bzzzt, bad idea. If you’re supposed to be buying groceries, but you swing by Harrahs on the way home and everyone has to eat ramen for the rest of the week— bzzzt, bad idea. If you’re supposed to be being a parent, and instead, you’re playing online internet poker five nights a week— bzzzt, bad idea.

I used to have some online friends who were professional gamblers. They played high-stakes games as their primary income. And they were good. But for every person who can make a living at it— it’s chewed up and destroyed thousands and thousands more. And because of that, I think there’s a bit of a miasma? perhaps? that taints the whole thing, to the point that pursuing gambling seriously just isn’t an attractive pasttime, because even if you can afford it, and you’re not an addict, if you’re successful, you’re still going to chew up people who are. And preying on addicts isn’t really my idea of entertainment, or a successful business, or anything that I really want much of a part of— even if I’m not going into it saying, “Ha ha, eat ramen for a week! Your grocery money is MINE!” 😛
 
When we went to Vegas, I didn’t play a single game. I was all about the shows and the sights and the food— but I never even played a slot machine. Gambling is for people who are either very, very good at math, or very, very bad at math. 😄
If you’re playing video poker at the right places, those nice young ladies keep bringing you beer (or whatever).

I spend far more on tips than the games themselves . . . but my attention wanders quickly when my bottle goes dry . . . :roll_eyes:🤣😜

hawk
 
I know, how did I detect a judgmental tone in your post? I mean, all you said was that gamblers are degenerate moochers unworthy of friendship. It’s a mystery how I could’ve gotten a holier than thou vibe. :roll_eyes:
 
I play the legal state lottery 4 times a week. I can afford it and the money in one state where I play goes to programs that help older residents of the state (like reduced transportation fare, rent rebates, Offices on Aging etc.) and in the other state it goes to the public schools.

This is pretty much all the gambling I do.

Am I a horrible gambler?

Gambling is like drinking. Some people can have an occasional beer without turning into the town drunk.
 
Playing the lottery is probably a different tier than casino gambling or dog/horse races. 🙂

But you do get people like this----
Please help me and my family as we have exausted all of our funds. We spent all of our money on lottery tickets (expecting to win the 1.5 billion) and are now in dire need of cash. With your small donation of at least $1.00, a like and one share, I’m certain that we will be able to pick ourselves up from the trenches of this lost and spend another fortune trying to hit it big again! PLEASE, won’t you help a family in need. DONATE NOW.
or
In March 2008, Adam suffered from a nervous breakdown after more than a decade of compulsive gambling, and he printed out 54,000 tickets without cashing a single one.

Mr Osmond explained: ‘I printed about 54,000 tickets and none of them were cashed. I didn’t even check it. There is no way you could possibly check all those numbers, and the lottery called me because I didn’t pay for it. I couldn’t pay for it, I was crying for help.’

For three weeks Mr Osmond had printed over $250,000 worth of lottery tickets before his machine was finally shut down.

He was then ordered to pay the sum of the tickets printed, despite never cashing any of them in.

Adam said: 'The money could have been spent on my family and savings. Also I could have paid in full for my house by now.

'Over the years I paid back thousands of dollars to the Connecticut Lottery but last year the court decided the court order was illegal and that I didn’t have to pay any more, because the tickets were not cashed yet. But I lost everything.

‘My lowest point was when I closed my business and my family found out about my addiction. I regret letting down my family and friends.’
But used in a healthy way, lottery is more like fairy tales for adults, where the cost of a fantasy is just a few dollars. 😀 “Once upon a time, Tis_Bearself bought a Powerball ticket, and the next morning, they woke to find they had won $700 million dollars. They then started figuring out whether it was better to take the lump sum or the 30-year-annuities, and how much to save, and how much to invest, and what kind of philanthropy to indulge in…”
 
There is a convenience store I regularly go to and I know some of the clerks. A few years ago they sold a big Powerball winning ticket. It was not the jackpot prize, but it was in the six figure range.

I said to the clerk as I was buying my ticket, “I heard you had a big winner.” She said, “Oh yeah, that was a guy who plays lottery in here all the time. He was back again today, still playing the lottery.”
 
It’s simple. I look at gambling as entertainment. If you stay within an affordable limit and it is a fun activity, especially with others, there’s not much to worry about . If you are going to go to Las Vegas, gambling is clearly the main attraction. It’s almost as easy to blow your budget at Disney World if you aren’t paying attention. That said I’ve never bought a lottery ticket or gambled, it just isn’t fun for me.
 
There is a certain amount of skill to playing blackjack or even sports betting. I don’t play myself but I can see it being fun for those who do.

My grandma enjoyed playing the horse races and Bingo. She didn’t blow the family budget on it, it was a fun activity she did with friends. It wasn’t so long ago that a lot of churches ran church bingo as a fundraiser and social activity for the church.
 
And when played well, Video Poker has really nice odds and hitting the rare Royal Flush for over $1k makes for a nice cherry on your vacation sundae.
 
I mean, all you said was that gamblers are degenerate moochers
unworthy of friendship.
It’s a mystery how I could’ve gotten a holier than thou vibe.
I WAS friends with a gambler. It was NOT good.
He was always hounded by loan sharks - violence - hustlers - etc
His wife HATED how he would watch sports continually on TV - no Hallmark movies.
And if his team lost…by one point, let’s say - gloom would prevail.
They divorced. Tough to witness. I was his " best man " -

But, of course, BoomBoomMancini puts his negative twist on matters -

I would - put forth the suggestion though - to any young gals out there -
not to marry an active gambler.
 
I used to have some online friends who were professional gamblers. They played high-stakes games as their primary income. And they were good. But for every person who can make a living at it— it’s chewed up and destroyed thousands and thousands more.
There only way to make a living gambling is for others to lose, sometimes a lot. High stakes poker players who play professionally do so in the casinos, where despite the house taking a cut of every pot, they can take advantage of the amateurs. I have a cousin who use to play in local (illegal) high stakes games, he claimed he didn’t lose too much but it would be hard to win, as the only people who knew about the games were really enerally really, good players. Having played against him a few times at family reunions in nickel,dime,quarter games, and I used to consider myself pretty good, he was unbelievably good. And yes, he claimed he could always make money when he went to Vegas, but even then because he had taught himself to recognize those players who had a secret partner at the table.

I think one of the most common types of professional gambler are at the horse racing tracks. Years ago, I met one and he described his life. Every morning, up at 4am, to the track to watch the horses and trainers. Learn all the local trainers and horses and jockeys. Go through the day of races, afterwards wander down to the stables and visit with everyone about what happened. He said it was 12-16 hours a day, 6 days a week, when a track was in season. You win because with para-mutual betting, you are betting against all of the other patrons of the track, not the house. How they bet is what sets the odds. Hard work, tough way to make a living. He would not say how much he made, but I would guess it was quite a bit. He told me 90% of the people who try to do it wash out and are broke within their first season. Anyone who lasts more than 2 seasons is good at it and can make a living.
 
@midori there can be some charm/challenge to (video)poker. After 1 year loosely studying the math of the game I was making 10€-15€ per day playing 2-3 sit’n’go . So just before it got serious I lost interest and decided to drop the whole thing - I just thought life is too short to waste my time on that…

@dochawk I took a friend’s challenge and we wrote an app to play videopoker over the course of 10 days. Quite an interesting exercise. I never could be bothered to field test it, but if the machines aren’t rigged that 1% chance in your favor can become a past-time in that you mindlessly play a game you already know, for the sake of it.
 
@dochawk could I bother you for a recommendation on your personal favorite book, by way of introduction, to combinatronics and monoids?
 
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