Game of Thrones= Sin?!

[HabemusFrancis]

Hi all,

Most of you have probably heard of the succesful tv/book franchise “Game of Thrones.” It is set in a midieval fantasy world complete with warring factions, magic and more. The author has been compared to an American Tolkein ( a claim I would disagree with.)

Though the author creates a fascinating intriguing world, with complicated and well fleshed out characters, the works appear to be a moral mess. It is filled with explicit, recreational, crude sex, and profanity is liberally used.

I believe the author may be a misogynist as well. Apart from the pervasive sexual objectification, few of the female characters have attractive personalities. Many of the “strong” female roles belong to women who are witchy/ vain/ incompetant though there are some notable exceptions.

It also seems nihilistic. The author kills off the good, kind, compassionate characters with little feeling or concern. He also takes 5-6 years to write 3000 page books

Anyway is anyone familiar with these?

 

[Oren]

Yeah, I’ve read all of them except the newest book and I’ve seen the first season of the show. I like them. The show does have a lot of gratuitous sex and stuff, but it’s on HBO so…oh well. Other than that it’s pretty good.
I never really thought about what morality it has. I suppose it is kind of nihilistic but, more than that I think he’s writing about power in general and how it goes to the wrong people because they’re the ones who are willing to do bad things in order to get it and the good people lose out because of that. I don’t think he’s saying that’s a good thing at all but that it’s a reality in a lot of cases if not most.
I never thought he was misogynistic? He has a lot of female characters and some are good and some are bad. I liked his female characters.

 

[vsedriver]

there is a lot of very bad behavior in the TV series. I’ve only just begun to read the books which so far read pretty well. I will fast forward through the sex parts as they are boring. Likewise I skip those parts in the books too. I got right off that it is all about the power plays. I just hope it doesn’t end up being a never ending story where everything pretty much just repeats with the same characters but with new names. A great story has got to have a great ending.

 

[GWright]

Ive read all the books of the series currently available.

I dont watch the TV series though, I was quite shocked as to how explicit it was - like a lot of shows, it goes for the ‘T&A’ angle, obviously to attract secular dullwits who would never dream of reading a book.

The books are not very crude for the most part, but every so often the author includes some bit of crudity / language, almost as if he is trying to shock the reader. (He looks quite nerdy, George Martin, and maybe thinks he is being cool or edgy by doing this).

I dont think the books are nhilistic. The world George Martin has created is analogous - in its warfare, politics, living conditions, standards etc - to Medieval europe. That was quite a bloody period. A lot of wars and fighting, meaning a lot of unfair, sudden, indiscriminate deaths. For me, Martins books simply capture the tumultuous / lawless / violent nature of such a society. I prefer such realism to the many books or films where the hero is invulnerable, which is unrealistic.

I would strongly disagree Martin is misogynistic. On the contrary, I think the majority of his female characters are impressive - strong, wilful, resourceful women. (I wont name characters etc, to avoid spoiling it for those who have not seen / read the series). Some of these women are honourable and others ignoble schemers - but they are always confident, independent, intelligent, resourceful, ambitious etc.

I actually think he has gone out of his way to include many interesting, engaging female characters, in order to ensure his world is well rounded and realistic. With such material - warfare, knights, monsters, magic etc - it would have been very easy to reduce the female presence to a few tokenistic, one-dimensional background characters: instead Martin has made sure women are at the very heart of each of the various storylines he weaves for us.

 

[edwest2]

I’ve seen it and it is totally sinful. Partial nudity, simulated sex, prostitutes that are just part of everyday life.

Avoid it.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I haven’t read the books but I’m doing my best to catch up completely in terms of the show. So far, I’ve actually developed an increased appreciation for politics in a medieval fantasy setting ever since I started watching.

My only gripe really is the lack of magic but that’s just geeky ol, mainstream me.

I’ve seen it and it is totally sinful. Partial nudity, simulated sex, prostitutes that are just part of everyday life.

Avoid it.

Let’s avoid history then. Though to be honest, I’m more far more fascinated by all the fighting and assassinating than whatever the heck it is you can’t draw your eyes from ed.

Favorite so far was the Golden Crown hehehehe… >BD

 

[Baelor]

It is filled with explicit, recreational, crude sex, and profanity is liberally used.

Indeed, and such scenes should be skipped!

I believe the author may be a misogynist as well. Apart from the pervasive sexual objectification, few of the female characters have attractive personalities. Many of the “strong” female roles belong to women who are witchy/ vain/ incompetant though there are some notable exceptions.

The sexual objectification in the book series is done for a purpose. We should not confuse the characters with the author. Sexual objectification and the relationship between the sexes is a key issue explored by the series.

I appreciate the strength of the female characters, who in many cases actually run things.

 

[StudentMI]

Game of Thrones= Sin?!

Only against good taste.

But seriously, I’ve asked priests about things like this and they say it’s a case of it being a near occasion for some and not for others. I myself don’t care to read such things, however, because after a steady diet of violent, nihilistic literature or films I just feel terrible. I certainly think it could be sinful, but I’m not making a judgement.

 

[HabemusFrancis]

I dont really think anyone who watches it is sinful. It isnt porn after all and the characters and plot twists are intriguing to say the least.

I guess its just my reflections on how absent the Christian ethos of Tolkeins work is here. I like them but the grinding selfishness and cruelty, the absence of mercy and “bigness” from a lot of the characters that are “protagonists” the absence of hope for example, that Cat will stop hating Jon Snow, that Ned can help inspire King Robert to be a good man and better himself, That Robb Stark might triumph in the end…

I like it, but I find it depressing…

 

[StudentMI]

I dont really think anyone who watches it is sinful. It isnt porn after all and the characters and plot twists are intriguing to say the least.

I guess its just my reflections on how absent the Christian ethos of Tolkeins work is here. I like them but the grinding selfishness and cruelty, the absence of mercy and “bigness” from a lot of the characters that are “protagonists” the absence of hope for example, that Cat will stop hating Jon Snow, that Ned can help inspire King Robert to be a good man and better himself, That Robb Stark might triumph in the end…

I like it, but I find it depressing…

I can speak from my personal experience that indulging in dark media has an effect. It influences you after a while, it makes you cynical, depressed, etc. I’d rather watch/read/listen to media that is reverential, or at least respectful of the dignity of human life.

I really am skeptical of many TV shows nowadays, and movies. Look at television. The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad and I’m sure others (I don’t watch a lot of tv) all reduce to the same cynical cliche: people, when in a tough situation, will do anything – no matter how violent, immoral and sick – to survive. Very original.

 

[edwest2]

Game of Thrones= Sin?!

Only against good taste.

But seriously, I’ve asked priests about things like this and they say it’s a case of it being a near occasion for some and not for others. I myself don’t care to read such things, however, because after a steady diet of violent, nihilistic literature or films I just feel terrible. I certainly think it could be sinful, but I’m not making a judgement.

Don’t fool yourself. Good taste? According to who? Don’t rationalize this. It’s depicting immorality as “entertainment.” That’s wrong.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I dont really think anyone who watches it is sinful. It isnt porn after all and the characters and plot twists are intriguing to say the least.

I guess its just my reflections on how absent the Christian ethos of Tolkeins work is here. I like them but the grinding selfishness and cruelty, the absence of mercy and “bigness” from a lot of the characters that are “protagonists” the absence of hope for example, that Cat will stop hating Jon Snow, that Ned can help inspire King Robert to be a good man and better himself, That Robb Stark might triumph in the end…

I like it, but I find it depressing…

Bare breasts and simulated sex is not porn? Don’t fool yourself.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kamaduck]

Bare breasts and simulated sex is not porn? Don’t fool yourself.

Peace,
Ed

I won’t defend Game of Thrones (haven’t seen it, no plans to), but I highly doubt that depicting bare female breasts should always be classed as porn.

Actually, no. I don’t highly doubt it, I know it isn’t always porn. Nudity =/= porn.

“Simulated sex” pretty much is porn, by definition- though I think it’d depend on how graphic it was, to some extent.

 

[Baelor]

Don’t fool yourself. Good taste? According to who? Don’t rationalize this. It’s depicting immorality as “entertainment.” That’s wrong.

According to reasonable persons. Your view of the series is reductive and simply wrong. ASoIaF need not be rationalized because it is obviously not an offense against good taste.

 

[Baelor]

Bare breasts and simulated sex is not porn? Don’t fool yourself.

Bare breasts are not porn. Simulated sex is in some cases porn.

 

[Kamaduck]

Bare breasts are not porn. Simulated sex is in some cases porn.

I don’t think ed actually realizes how much he’s condemning here.

Example: there is a Japanese animated movie that contains a scene where a mother nurses her baby, and anatomically correct exposed breasts are shown. It’s a small part of a kid-friendly, G-rated film. Obviously that’s not porn. :doh2:

 

[StudentMI]

Don’t fool yourself. Good taste? According to who? Don’t rationalize this. It’s depicting immorality as “entertainment.” That’s wrong.

Ed, I wasn’t saying game of thrones was in good taste. I was criticizing it on literary grounds. I’m not a fan of such things.

I do have to join in disagreeing with what you said regarding nudity. Look at the Sistine Chapel. Look at two movies that made the Vatican’s lust of best films: Andrei Rublev and The Passion of Joan of Arc. Both contain nudity and are masterpieces of the art form and of spiritual art.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t think ed actually realizes how much he’s condemning here.

Example: there is a Japanese animated movie that contains a scene where a mother nurses her baby, and anatomically correct exposed breasts are shown. It’s a small part of a kid-friendly, G-rated film. Obviously that’s not porn. :doh2:

Justify what you want. Animation does not equal real breasts and obvious simulated sex.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kamaduck]

Justify what you want. Animation does not equal real breasts and obvious simulated sex.

Peace,
Ed

Well, since animation can also be porn, it follows that animated breasts should be restricted under your no-exposed breasts rule.

Would a living woman feeding her child also be porn, by your definition?

 

[ironchapman]

Ed, I wasn’t saying game of thrones was in good taste. I was criticizing it on literary grounds. I’m not a fan of such things.

I do have to join in disagreeing with what you said regarding nudity. Look at the Sistine Chapel. Look at two movies that made** the Vatican’s lust of best films**: Andrei Rublev and The Passion of Joan of Arc. Both contain nudity and are masterpieces of the art form and of spiritual art.

Oh wow, what a perfect place and topic for that kind of typo.