I agree…I watched the first few seasons, but my conscience wouldn’t allow me to continue. A lot of popularity, money, thought, and work put into it, but it’s still pornography…I read that they had to use a “body double” for a scene because the actress didn’t want to expose herself. The double was a porn star.Game of Thrones, I think, would qualify as pornography. I’ve seen the show, one time, and found it to be detrimental to my Christian life.
Partial nudity, simulated sex, prostitution. All these things portrayed as if they should be allowed into our minds as good, OK or neutral. I watched enough of it to realize that it is not good.I was just wondering as I do know that catholics should not watch game of thrones but I was just wondering what is the Catholic Church’s stance on this show?
I do think that the show though is depicting gravely sinful acts, like fornication.
Yes, and that is precisely what makes Martin’s vision of the Middle Ages so vicious.I’ve never watched it, but I’m wondering–do they portray the Church in any manner? We know that the Church played a central role in the Middle Ages. Does “Game of Thrones” portray a Church-less Middle Ages?
You either misread what the poster wrote, or you are absolutely not familiar with the show/books. The Faith of the Seven is clearly the GoT world’s version of the Catholic church (septons=priests, High Septon=Pope, Silent Sisters/Septas=Nuns), and in both the book and the show, one of the female characters ran very afoul of them.Yes, and that is precisely what makes Martin’s vision of the Middle Ages so vicious.
I am very familiar with the books, having been through all of them as audio-books. The Faith of the Seven is very different from Christianity. It has priests and religious leaders, but so do most pagan religions. There is no Christ figure or redemption from sin, and a lot of other factors that make Christianity Christian are missing as well. If Martin intended the Faith of the Seven to be his worlds version of Christianity, it is a very pale version indeed.You either misread what the poster wrote, or you are absolutely not familiar with the show/books. The Faith of the Seven is clearly the GoT world’s version of the Catholic church (septons=priests, High Septon=Pope, Silent Sisters/Septas=Nuns), and in both the book and the show, one of the female characters ran very afoul of them.
The Catholic Church doesn’t take official stances on TV shows. But from everything I have ever heard about it, it doesn’t seem like it is the most edifying show for one’s spiritual life.I was just wondering as I do know that catholics should not watch game of thrones but I was just wondering what is the Catholic Church’s stance on this show?
I do think that the show though is depicting gravely sinful acts, like fornication.
As a former GOT fan, I’d say that the nihilism is certainly part of the show, but not quite the case in the books the show is based on. The problem, will one of the problems, with the show is that it really has taken the original idea to subvert the cliché of “the good guys always win, even against impossible odds”, and run with It to such an extreme, that they now have a new cliché: “the bad guys always win, even against impossible odds”.On the plus side, it has an engaging narrative and some really interesting, strong female characters. It draws you in, and once you start watching, it’s hard to stop. You get really invested in the characters.
On the minus side, there is an excessive amount of sex, nudity, and extremely graphic violence, as well as a nihilistic world view. It’s not about good versus evil, but about the strong versus the weak. It has few pure-hearted characters, and the ones it does have mostly die or meet other bad ends. It’s kind of the opposite of JRR Tolkien, and it’s decidedly not very Catholic. I would guess that if it were a movie, it would be given either an L or an O rating
The Faith also has very little political power for most of the story, quite unlike the actual medieval Church. Unfortunately, the TV version of the Faith uprising essentially portrays them like a amalgam of ISIS and the Westboro Baptist Church. Religious fanatics carving stars into their foreheads (the 7 pointed star is the Faith version of the cross), burning down brothels and persecuting gays. (Though ironically, the TV show’s treatment of its major gay characters is very stereotypical.)Any fictional religion, such as those found in a Medieval European Fantasy, which possesses attributes stereotypically associated with Christianity (especially Roman Catholicism) — such as priestly vestments, nuns and their habits, confessionals, the designs of houses of worship, and crosses — but which centers on a deity other than the Christian God, like an animistic spirit or pagan-flavored god. Often there will be a Yahweh analog and/or a Satan analog but not a Jesus one
I agree that, for a lapsed Catholic, GRRM is actually quite fair when it comes to the religions of Westeros. Although many of his fans proclaim to be atheist, and to find it obvious that “none of the Gods in Westeros actually exist”, I think the author himself means to leave the existence of gods to be an open question. The “Faith” does contain many corrupt priests, and for most of the story, the “High Septon” is under the thumb of the secular rulers. But individual Septons and monks are portrayed as devout and caring. One troubled, dark gray character, even is portrayed as having found solace as a monk.I feel like the Church of the Seven is kind of a reference to Catholicism, but not in the sense of an actual representation of the Church, but more of a fantasy concept that drew inspiration from the Church, among other sources.
The whole Lord of Light fire-based faith likewise bears a lot of similarities to Christianity, although that too draws from both Christianity and Zoroastrianism, particularly with the focus on fire. There is an element of a messiah who was predestined to essentially defeat the cursed winter that Westeros suffers from.
In any case, I don’t consider any of the religions in the story to be a criticism of Catholicism or organized religion in particular, rather just attempted realistic depictions of a fantasy world with organized fantasy religions that all have their own pros and cons.
Loras’s depiction was something that bothered me quite a bit. He wasn’t portrayed as promiscuous in the book, nor as… I guess a dandy? Even Renly became a bit of a stereotype. Loras was depicted as pretty noble in the books, and the show turned him into a very negative stereotype of gay people, whether the creators realize it or not.I agree that, for a lapsed Catholic, GRRM is actually quite fair when it comes to the religions of Westeros. Although many of his fans proclaim to be atheist, and to find it obvious that “none of the Gods in Westeros actually exist”, I think the author himself means to leave the existence of gods to be an open question. The “Faith” does contain many corrupt priests, and for most of the story, the “High Septon” is under the thumb of the secular rulers. But individual Septons and monks are portrayed as devout and caring. One troubled, dark gray character, even is portrayed as having found solace as a monk.
I do think the books and show are very different now in how they approach faith matters. The book portrayal of the Faith Militant was much more nuanced than the show version. The show version, alas, is essentially a big caricature, a mix of ISIS and what the showrunners might actually suspect “fundie” Christians would do if they had enough military and political power to get away with it. Mutilating, torturing, and imprisoning homosexuals. (And while they’re busy patting themselves on the back for standing against such behavior, they actually have reduced Loras to a gay stereotype. No indication that the book Loras would ever frequent brothels or obsess over fringed sleeves, the way the show one does.)
I must not have gotten far enough for that to be addressed, but it’s disappointing if that’s the case.It’s also interesting how the show version of Davos is a staunch atheist who sees the various deities as just children’s stories. This is quite different from the book version, who is a follower of the Seven, though he doesn’t always live up to its ideals; he does mention he is guilty of adultery and other “wrongs” committed against his wife, but one big difference between him and other adulterous characters, is that he actually feels remorse, and there’s no indication that Davos is still sleeping around during the WOT5K time period.
Having read the books first, I must not have realized the show omitted it since I knew that was supposed to be in the scene. I remember that part with Shae really upset me though, since her betraying Tyrion felt entirely out of character, but I understand that that was kind of the point.I’d also point out that the show has sanitized Tyrion to the point that they’re essentially different characters. Unlike his book counterpart, the show version actually stays faithful to Sansa during their marriage, and he doesn’t do any of the really dark things in Essos that he does in the books. And the show version of his first wife seems to actually meant to be just a whore who deceived him, and paid a slightly worse price for it than she deserved. Whereas in the books, she’s a totally innocent girl who sincerely loved him, and was destroyed by Tywin for it. Finding this out, is what really drives Tyrion over the edge. The show omits that completely.
One that really upset me even in the first season was the part depicting Drogo and Daenerys’ wedding night as… somewhat less than consensual? The scene was literally the opposite in the book, and the change was entirely arbitrary, if not detrimental to their character.So in general, the show just seems to be drawing on the darkest, sickest parts of the books (except for those involving Tyrion) and reveling in them, without much of the redeeming qualities I still think the books themselves have.
I totally agree. Loras actually proclaims his fidelity to Renly’s memory when he tells Tyrion, “When the sun has set, no candle can replace it”. Tyrion finds that naïve, but he’s actually being somewhat of a hypocrite here, since he hasn’t exactly gotten over his first love, either. I can certainly imagine Loras eventually moving on after some years, but I still don’t see him as the type to consort with whores.Loras’s depiction was something that bothered me quite a bit. He wasn’t portrayed as promiscuous in the book, nor as… I guess a dandy? Even Renly became a bit of a stereotype. Loras was depicted as pretty noble in the books, and the show turned him into a very negative stereotype of gay people, whether the creators realize it or not.
By “that to be addressed”, do you mean, the topic of Davos cheating on his wife? He makes a comment to someone fairly early on that “I’m kind to my wife, but I’ve known other women”. There’s also a time later in the story when Davos thinks he is going to die, when he wishes he could write farewell letters to his family, and he thinks “Marya, I have loved you. Forgive me the wrongs I have done you.” I assume adultery was at least one of the “wrongs”, though it could also refer to his leading his sons to battle and getting many of them killed.I must not have gotten far enough for that to be addressed, but it’s disappointing if that’s the case.
I think the showrunners just painted themselves into a corner. Book!Shae was essentially the female version of Bronn, it was obvious she never loved Tyrion, and her turning on him for self-preservation wasn’t surprising. They made Show!Shae much more sympathetic, to the point of refusing jewels Varys offers her as a bribe to leave Tyrion, something Book!Shae would have gladly done. But in order to follow the book plot, they HAD to include her betrayal.Having read the books first, I must not have realized the show omitted it since I knew that was supposed to be in the scene. I remember that part with Shae really upset me though, since her betraying Tyrion felt entirely out of character, but I understand that that was kind of the point.
I read somewhere that they changed it because the actors just couldn’t figure out how to enact the book scene in a convincing way, especially since Drogo does treat Dany rather shabbily in the weeks following the marriage. However, considering the ridiculous amount of rape the show has made up since then, I don’t trust that explanation anymore.One that really upset me even in the first season was the part depicting Drogo and Daenerys’ wedding night as… somewhat less than consensual? The scene was literally the opposite in the book, and the change was entirely arbitrary, if not detrimental to their character.