Gandhi anecdote about being refused entry to a Church

[pat]

A priest of my parish opened his homily with an anecdote about Gandhi seeking to enter a Church and being stopped by an usher because of his Indian appearance. The theme of course is hospitality and openness to others - and we have the hypocritical, prejudiced, intolerant Christian to despise. In my search I found what I believe to be its first appearance on the Internet in 1994 in “Our Daily Bread”
odb.org/1994/03/06/a-prejudiced-usher/
In his autobiography, Mahatma Gandhi wrote that during his student days he read the Gospels seriously and considered converting to Christianity. He believed that in the teachings of Jesus he could find the solution to the caste system that was dividing the people of India.

So one Sunday he decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the sanctuary, however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go worship with his own people. Gandhi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also,” he said, “I might as well remain a Hindu.” That usher’s prejudice not only betrayed Jesus but also turned a person away from trusting Him as Savior.
But no footnote. And from there many repetitions have appeared in print and on the Internet, even making it multiple ushers, and adding the slur “kaffir” to it.
I was interested in the context of the anecdote and found several searchable online sites hosting the text Gandhi’s autobiographyThe Story of My Experiments For Truth. and was unable to find anything like it. In fact, under a search for “Church” in the text, he writes of attending Christian services and finding them boring, and being impressed with Church architecture.

So for forum readers, the challenge is to find a source for the anecdote that actually references the autobiography (by page), or other primary source. My 1994 Evangelical author, Haddon Robinson is 86. I will email him.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

There are a lot of invented stories about iconic persons.

 

[StudentMI]

I might be wrong but I think a similar scene was in the movie Gandhi. Not saying it’s true though.

 

[MartinJordan]

There are a lot of invented stories about iconic persons.

Yep.

MJ

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

There are a lot of invented stories about iconic persons.

You saying George Washington didn’t cut down that cherry tree? What is the world coming to…

 

[JMartyr73340]

So one Sunday he decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the sanctuary, however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go worship with his own people. Gandhi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also,” he said, “I might as well remain a Hindu.” That usher’s prejudice not only betrayed Jesus but also turned a person away from trusting Him as Savior.

What the Usher did was very bad, but not completely unexpected for his time. I wonder if God was testing Gandhi’s humility? It looks like he allowed his pride to heavily influence the most important decision of his life. I can’t blame him though. Humiliation and slander can be very difficult to forgive. I probably would have reacted the same way.

 

[abucs]

Very good question. Can the following words properly be attributed to Ghandi’s autobiography?

If not, it would probably be a good idea to inform the priest who gave the homily. I think in general there is too much false self hatred going on. It seems to have spread as a new form of morality.

In his autobiography, Mahatma Gandhi wrote that during his student days he read the Gospels seriously and considered converting to Christianity. He believed that in the teachings of Jesus he could find the solution to the caste system that was dividing the people of India.

So one Sunday he decided to attend services at a nearby church and talk to the minister about becoming a Christian. When he entered the sanctuary, however, the usher refused to give him a seat and suggested that he go worship with his own people. Gandhi left the church and never returned. “If Christians have caste differences also,” he said, “I might as well remain a Hindu.” That usher’s prejudice not only betrayed Jesus but also turned a person away from trusting Him as Savior.

So for forum readers, the challenge is to find a source for the anecdote that actually references the autobiography (by page), or other primary source. My 1994 Evangelical author, Haddon Robinson is 86. I will email him.

 

[MartinJordan]

What was the name of the church? Until that is mentioned this kind of thing is probably false.

Plus Gandhi was a very adept lawyer who likely knows more about Christianity than just some sage who’s teaching enlightenment or the like.

MJ

 

[SyroMalankara]

Being a Christian of Indian origin, I’ve heard this story growing up. I believe this was regarding the treatment by the British, of Indians, despite their professed Christian faith. The church of course, is the Church of England’s Church Missionary Society (which later became a founding member of the union Church of South India), which included many of the same folks running the slave trade in the British East India Company.

 

[Brassring]

I don’t know if the story about Ghandi is true, false, or exaggerated, but it reminds me of a quote I heard during a homily last year (I can’t remember to whom the quote was attributed) “The world is full of people who deny Christ because of a Christian they have met”.

 

[MartinJordan]

Being a Christian of Indian origin, I’ve heard this story growing up. I believe this was regarding the treatment by the British, of Indians, despite their professed Christian faith. The church of course, is the Church of England’s Church Missionary Society (which later became a founding member of the union Church of South India), which included many of the same folks running the slave trade in the British East India Company.

I’m also an Indian Christian (Tamil) but didn’t hear of this till my college days in the USA. My question is why would a Lawyer who knows British history bother?

MJ

 

[Picky_Picky]

Being a Christian of Indian origin, I’ve heard this story growing up. I believe this was regarding the treatment by the British, of Indians, despite their professed Christian faith. The church of course, is the Church of England’s Church Missionary Society (which later became a founding member of the union Church of South India), which included many of the same folks running the slave trade in the British East India Company.

We have no evidence that this incident took place; if it did take place we have no evidence it took place in India, rather than in Britain or South Africa; if it did take place in India we have no evidence it involved the CMS; if it involved the CMS it seems unlikely it involved people from the East India Company, since John Company had been wound up before Gandhi returned to India as an adult; in any case evidence of “running a slave trade” by Britons in Ghandi’s lifetime would be, I think, breaking new ground. Incidentally, among those responsible for setting up and supporting the CMS were the Clapham Sect, whose members included Wilberforce, and whose record regarding slavery was inspiring.

I sometimes surprise myself with my reticence on this forum.

If anyone wants to say that the British, among other nations, and Anglicans, among other Christian denominations, and people of other faiths and of none, have a dreadful history of racism, I shall support them absolutely.

 

[SyroMalankara]

We have no evidence that this incident took place; if it did take place we have no evidence it took place in India, rather than in Britain or South Africa; if it did take place in India we have no evidence it involved the CMS; if it involved the CMS it seems unlikely it involved people from the East India Company, since John Company had been wound up before Gandhi returned to India as an adult; in any case evidence of “running a slave trade” by Britons in Ghandi’s lifetime would be, I think, breaking new ground. Incidentally, among those responsible for setting up and supporting the CMS were the Clapham Sect, whose members included Wilberforce, and whose record regarding slavery was inspiring.

I sometimes surprise myself with my reticence on this forum.

If anyone wants to say that the British, among other nations, and Anglicans, among other Christian denominations, and people of other faiths and of none, have a dreadful history of racism, I shall support them absolutely.

Maybe it was an embellishment from Gandhi’s autobiography:
“I was together with some Christian friends when one of them said something I was not prepared for.

‘You cannot understand the beauty of our religion. From what you say it appears that you must be brooding over your transgressions every moment of your life, always mending them and atoning for them. How can this ceaseless cycle of action bring you redemption? You can never have peace. You admit that we are all sinners. Now look at the perfection of our belief. Our attempts at improvement and atonement are futile. And yet redemption we must have. How can we bear the burden of sin? We can out throw it on Jesus. He is the only sinless Son of God. It is His word that those who believe in Him shall have everlasting life. Therein lies God’s infinite mercy. And as we believe in the atonement of Jesus, our own sins do not bind us. Sin we must, It is impossible to live in this world sinless. And therefore Jesus suffered and atoned for all the sins of mankind. Only he who accepts His great redemption can have eternal peace. Think what a life of restlessness is yours, and what a promise of peace we have.’

“The argument utterly failed to convince me. I humbly replied: ‘If this be the Christianity acknowledged by all Christians, I cannot accept it. I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin. Until I have attained that end, I shall be content to be restless.’”

Gandhi writes further about this person:
“And the brother proved as good as his word. He knowingly committed transgressions, and showed me that he was undisturbed by the thought of them.” (from “An Autobiography, or The Story of my Experiments with Truth,” by M. K. Gandhi, 1927-29).

 

[MartinJordan]

Maybe it was an embellishment from Gandhi’s autobiography:
“I was together with some Christian friends when one of them said something I was not prepared for.

‘You cannot understand the beauty of our religion. From what you say it appears that you must be brooding over your transgressions every moment of your life, always mending them and atoning for them. How can this ceaseless cycle of action bring you redemption? You can never have peace. You admit that we are all sinners. Now look at the perfection of our belief. Our attempts at improvement and atonement are futile. And yet redemption we must have. How can we bear the burden of sin? We can out throw it on Jesus. He is the only sinless Son of God. It is His word that those who believe in Him shall have everlasting life. Therein lies God’s infinite mercy. And as we believe in the atonement of Jesus, our own sins do not bind us. Sin we must, It is impossible to live in this world sinless. And therefore Jesus suffered and atoned for all the sins of mankind. Only he who accepts His great redemption can have eternal peace. Think what a life of restlessness is yours, and what a promise of peace we have.’

“The argument utterly failed to convince me. I humbly replied: ‘If this be the Christianity acknowledged by all Christians, I cannot accept it. I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin. Until I have attained that end, I shall be content to be restless.’”

Gandhi writes further about this person:
“And the brother proved as good as his word. He knowingly committed transgressions, and showed me that he was undisturbed by the thought of them.” (from “An Autobiography, or The Story of my Experiments with Truth,” by M. K. Gandhi, 1927-29).

There it is then. The story is false.

MJ

 

[ProdglArchitect]

To be frank, I think the demands for evidence are kind of silly. Why would there be evidence of such a thing? Ushers don’t generally take note of every individual they ask to leave a church, especially not in those days. There’s no reason to think that any sort of evidence should exist… If he’s telling the truth, it’s awful that that was done. If he’s not telling the truth then shame on Gandhi for lying. Either way, we can’t really know. Honestly, given the nature of British colonialism in India at the time, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

 

[Eliza10]

What the Usher did was very bad, but not completely unexpected for his time. I wonder if God was testing Gandhi’s humility? It looks like he allowed his pride to heavily influence the most important decision of his life. I can’t blame him though. Humiliation and slander can be very difficult to forgive. I probably would have reacted the same way.

Good answer.

I don’t know if the story about Ghandi is true, false, or exaggerated, but it reminds me of a quote I heard during a homily last year (I can’t remember to whom the quote was attributed) “The world is full of people who deny Christ because of a Christian they have met”.

Yes, and that is not fair is it? Every people-group has bad examples of the group’s beliefs.

 

[MartinJordan]

To be frank, I think the demands for evidence are kind of silly. Why would there be evidence of such a thing? Ushers don’t generally take note of every individual they ask to leave a church, especially not in those days. There’s no reason to think that any sort of evidence should exist… If he’s telling the truth, it’s awful that that was done. If he’s not telling the truth then shame on Gandhi for lying. Either way, we can’t really know. Honestly, given the nature of British colonialism in India at the time, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

This might be of use : ncronline.org/blogs/road-peace/gandhis-daily-scripture-readings-peace

Personally I doubt Gandhi would have said he’s Hindu Christian Muslim Jew and trusts in the Sermon on the Mount at the same time.

MJ

 

[ProdglArchitect]

This might be of use : ncronline.org/blogs/road-peace/gandhis-daily-scripture-readings-peace

Personally I doubt Gandhi would have said he’s Hindu Christian Muslim Jew and trusts in the Sermon on the Mount at the same time.

MJ

As do I. The amount of cognitive dissonance required to try to maintain all those world views simultaneously would be too much for any rational human being…

 

[SyroMalankara]

This kind of thing isn’t that far off in the USA, let alone India. The Italians didn’t want an Irish priest, the Irish didn’t want a Hispanic priest, the Hispanics don’t want an Indian priest, etc…
That’s why there are historically ethnic parishes within 5 blocks of each other in every major city in the US.

In India, to this day, ethnic groups compete and complain about Mass language, times, the ethnicity of the priest/bishop, etc. In the old days, it was the Anglos keeping them out, nowadays its Indian people doing it to their fellow Indian.

ucanews.com/news/two-priests-among-14-arrested-in-bishops-kidnapping/75933

cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/10/archbishop-shuts-down-parish-over-statue-of-rebel-priest/

 

[Eliza10]

Maybe it was an embellishment from Gandhi’s autobiography:
“I was together with some Christian friends when one of them said something I was not prepared for.

‘You cannot understand the beauty of our religion. From what you say it appears that you must be brooding over your transgressions every moment of your life, always mending them and atoning for them. How can this ceaseless cycle of action bring you redemption? You can never have peace. You admit that we are all sinners. Now look at the perfection of our belief. Our attempts at improvement and atonement are futile. And yet redemption we must have. How can we bear the burden of sin? We can out throw it on Jesus. He is the only sinless Son of God. It is His word that those who believe in Him shall have everlasting life. Therein lies God’s infinite mercy. And as we believe in the atonement of Jesus, our own sins do not bind us. Sin we must, It is impossible to live in this world sinless. And therefore Jesus suffered and atoned for all the sins of mankind. Only he who accepts His great redemption can have eternal peace. Think what a life of restlessness is yours, and what a promise of peace we have.’

“The argument utterly failed to convince me. I humbly replied: ‘If this be the Christianity acknowledged by all Christians, I cannot accept it. I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin. Until I have attained that end, I shall be content to be restless.’”

Gandhi writes further about this person:
“And the brother proved as good as his word. He knowingly committed transgressions, and showed me that he was undisturbed by the thought of them.” (from “An Autobiography, or The Story of my Experiments with Truth,” by M. K. Gandhi, 1927-29).

Ghandi chose examples simply to propagate his perceived unique moral superiority. Good examples of Christians abound, but he chose to ignore them, and uplift his own prominence by spotlighting only the hypocrites, as if they represent Christianity, and then contrasting himself to them. He increased his own power and influence, and people fell for it. People reason that If Ghandi thought that that usher represented Christianity, then it must be true! Such deceptions designed to make one admire the teller tickle the ears. My husband who (whom I am discussing this with as I write) says that this is a “straw man argument”. Yes, these tales are told for manipulation, for winning in an argument, and for elevating oneself in the eyes of others (In Ghandi’s case, the masses)… It has nothing to do with integrity.

I prefer true integrity and* true Christianity* as exemplifed in the actual lives of the Saints over the lies and strange perversions that were the fruit of the actual life of that strange dude - independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/thrill-of-the-chaste-the-truth-about-gandhis-sex-life-1937411.html