Gandhi in hell?

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  1. But, I suppose hagiography of, say, St. Augustine is perfectly fine, despite the fact that he fathered an illegitmate child and such? ( That is in no way meant to degrade St. Augustine) Listen, Gandhi had every right to criticize bad Christians, and he did criticize them, alongside bad Hindus and bad Muslims. They didn’t live up to Gandhi, no. That’s not his fault. It’s theirs.
Nope—in fact, St Augustine wrote his own “Confessions”, which compares quite favorably with Gandhi’s example in that my patron saint took a fine-toothed comb to his own autobiography. It may have been the sin of pride which kept Gandhi out of heaven, if indeed he was not saved.

Even the most hypocritical Christian obeys Christ to some small extent—rejecting Christ and his Church means failing to live up to the only example which matters—Christ’s.
  1. I know Christ is God, sir. I know that His Church is the Catholic Church. I also know that Gandhi was but a fallible man. If you are accusing me of idol-worshipping Gandhi, you are mistaken.
I’m not accusing you of anything—just reminding you which example matters and which does not.

Marcus Aurelius was a great man. His example only takes us so far, and when considering salvation, the bulk of Church teaching would tend toward our not encountering the Emperor on the other side, should we make it through the Narrow Gate ourselves. God being God, of course, all things are possible.

What seems apparent and worth keeping in mind that, to use another Augustinian reference, those men exalted within the City of Man may not in fact be residents of the City of God.
  1. The spiritual bankruptness of Europe is because of cowards who want no morality forced upon them.
Perhaps, although much of Europe has been inured to a much heavier yoke than the Pope’s from time to time. The Catholic Church does not tell you you must erect street signs every so many feet or what the price of chicken is; Brussels bureaucrats do.

My own hypothesis is that Europe’s churches and cathedrals have gone dark because they have turned to the worship of “great men” rather than God, putting their faith where it doesn’t belong.

Not literally, of course (they wouldn’t claim to worship anything, if polls are any indication), but in the true sense of idolatry—taking what is due God and applying it to that which is not God.

This is why Gandhi’s soundbite grates. Sir Charles Napier, in the anecdote I referenced, took action against an objective evil—the murder of women—driven by his Christian faith. Doing so cost him—looking the other way would have made for a smoother ride in India at the time.

British rule in India was steeped in injustice and exploitation—this is a fact, and we rightly celebrate Indian independence as a result. But as with the experience of America, the British did not simply take—they were an enormous civilizing influence, particularly during the Victorian era. Much of the tumult following independence was a result of India treating all things Western as though poisoned, to their harm. Much of that, I would posit, is a result of Gandhi’s own rhetoric and behavior. In that, he resembled Thomas Jefferson more than Christ.

One also must note that Gandhi sought to undermine the struggle against the Axis in World War II by insisting that the British withdraw from India before India would consider supporting the war effort (a reversal of his earlier and more moderate lukewarm support of the effort). It doesn’t speak well for one’s moral barometer that one can’t distinguish between Hitler and Churchill, between Nazi and Tory.

Gandhi had a blind spot, and that was his hatred of the British. We can note that that hatred had justification without condoning it in its own right.

That hatred may also have barred the doors of heaven to him.
 
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Mohandas Gandhi
The questions begs since his quote was brought up and I actuallyed used his quote as a signature for a while.

WHICH CHRISTIANS ARE HE TALKING ABOUT?
 
The questions begs since his quote was brought up and I actuallyed used his quote as a signature for a while.

WHICH CHRISTIANS ARE HE TALKING ABOUT?
I suspect he was referring to the British, particularly the British in India, but of course he was wrong on that count too: when has passive resistance worked against NON-Christians?

Tiananmen Square seems apt.

He certainly could not have had any of the Christian saints in mind, nor saints-in-waiting like Kolbe, consigned to a concentration camp and providing an example even Gandhi should aspire to in choosing to die in another’s place.

Of course, even our saints are unlike Christ, in that they are imperfect in even their awe-inspiring faith, often by their own admission.

If Christ is the standard (as he should be), no man has, can, or will compare to that standard. Otherwise, grace would be unnecessary.

I don’t object to Gandhi’s criticism so much as his arrogance in making it and the failure to recognize his own shortcoming relative to Christ’s example.

To the topic: if one does not get to heaven but through Christ, keeping him at arm’s length doesn’t seem to be a good strategy if heaven be your destination. One can only hope that Gandhi had a deathbed or postmortem epiphany in this regard and so received the eternal reward.
 
We also have to look to those persons that have lived and died from the time of Christ’s death and the discovery and subsequent introduction of Jesus to those people in the Americas (North, Central, and South) .

Those that led a good and moral life, are they in hell or in heaven.
  1. We know that Christ is the only way to the Father, as told by Christ in today’s Gospel reading.
would dictate they are in hell. It would also dictate those children that die prior to the age of reason go straight to hell as well regardless of baptismal state. etc, etc, etc
 
Its only for God to decide the state of one man’s soul and seems pointless for us to discuss it.
 
We also have to look to those persons that have lived and died from the time of Christ’s death and the discovery and subsequent introduction of Jesus to those people in the Americas (North, Central, and South) .

Those that led a good and moral life, are they in hell or in heaven.

Those that say they are in Hell PERIOD are those type of Christians that Gandhi did not like. IMHO
I hope never to find out who’s in hell through sight rather than deduction!
 
Its only for God to decide the state of one man’s soul and seems pointless for us to discuss it.
Yet we have christians that declare Gandhi is in hell. Yet we have Christians that declare those beyond their own control who lived and died outside the knowledge of christ are in hell regardless of their life.
 
Yet we have christians that declare Gandhi is in hell. Yet we have Christians that declare those beyond their own control who lived and died outside the knowledge of christ are in hell regardless of their life.
Gandhi did a lot of good work, I could not say that he lived a totally wasted life. But we must remember, we are mere mortals and have no control over whether people go to hell or not. Lets leave it up to God, the Almighty but Just Judge.
 
Its only for God to decide the state of one man’s soul and seems pointless for us to discuss it.
Yet you believe those that have been declared saints and canonized are in heaven…a contradiction of your own words…
 
We also have to look to those persons that have lived and died from the time of Christ’s death and the discovery and subsequent introduction of Jesus to those people in the Americas (North, Central, and South) .

Those that led a good and moral life, are they in hell or in heaven.

would dictate they are in hell. It would also dictate those children that die prior to the age of reason go straight to hell as well regardless of baptismal state. etc, etc, etc
Clearly, there is a difference between choosing to deny Christ and never even hearing the message of the Gospel. Invincible ignorance may apply to many people. Therefore, we really have no right to dictate who is acceptable in God’s sight, because his omniscience and grace will accept all those who are righteous. But, clearly God is the only judge of that.
 
are not miracles required for someone to be canonised?

no miracles come out of hell.
 
are not miracles required for someone to be canonised?
Yes and No. The requirement of a Miracle was not always so.
no miracles come out of hell.
Yes and no as well. Satan and Demon can do certain things that will give the perception of a miracle.

The fact still remains, that the Church has determine those certain individuals are in heaven which by your own comment belongs to God alone.

Your own words:

**
Its only for God to decide the state of one man’s soul and seems pointless for us to discuss it.

***The Church has determine that the state of the saints soul is such that, that the saint is in heaven beyond a shadow of a doubt. ***

 
All of which goes to show that unless and until Gandhi is declared to be St Gandhi by the Church, this question will still be in effect.

As for Gandhi, so for Marcus Aurelius, and ever other noble non-Christian. The wisdom of Dante’s circles of hell should be obvious in this light.
 
Apart from the question as to whether or not Gandhi is burning in hell, It would seem that many who have posted here believe that Gandhi should have accomplished more and better. Which of you can boast of having surpassed his accomplishments in making the world better for your contemporaries and fellow citizens? 👍
 
Apart from the question as to whether or not Gandhi is burning in hell, It would seem that many who have posted here believe that Gandhi should have accomplished more and better. Which of you can boast of having surpassed his accomplishments in making the world better for your contemporaries and fellow citizens? 👍
Can Gandhi boast of recieving the Eucharist at mass every week, of sharing in this miraculous event with fellow Christians every week, for many every day? Can he boast of making the world a better place by countless prayer, offering to God the needs of thousands of people, whether by the rosary, novena, or any personal prayer? Can he boast of living a contemplative lifestyle, where thousands of monks, nuns, and other religious have given their lives for Christ and His Church. Absolutely not! The Church is the greatest mission and the greatest charitable institution throughout the world. We all are not called to be famous, world-renowned saints. Nevertheless, all of us are called to always be faithful to Christ to save our souls, the souls of others, and to strengthen Christ’s Church. These acts and the people that do such acts should never be compared to the secular works of Gandhi. There is no comparison. Who is greater? I have much more admiration for the devout Catholic who through their faithfulness and righteiousness bring 10 people to the Holy Mother Church, then I do for Gandhi, who even if he saved 10 million from poverty, could never compare to that one Catholic individual, who eternally saved 10.
 
  1. Boasting is an artifact of the sin of pride, and may well have been what kept Gandhi from achieving heaven, if he did not. It is what blinds someone to the evils of Nazism, for example, or to despise people wholesale because of their country of birth. It is the oil of revolution, as revolutionaries require pride in abundance.
  2. What matters is what pleases God, not what pleases us. Mother Teresa may well have pleased God more than Gandhi, despite her accomplishments being confined to the spiritual rather than the political.
  3. Those who argue so for Gandhi seem to operate under the fallacy that salvation is earned rather than a gift of God. Only Christ can be said to have earned salvation.
  4. If political success is to be determinitive here, point me to the person who did more to save civilization, single-handedly, than Gandhi’s nemesis, Sir Winston Churchill. May we presume that Churchill is among the choir invisible in this case? Perhaps Gandhi might have emulated Churchill’s magnanimity and so stood in better stead, then. Of course, Churchill’s ego may have dwarfed Gandhi’s, but if service is the yardstick, Churchill has some room to spare to get through the Narrow Gate.
 
Can Gandhi boast of recieving the Eucharist at mass every week, of sharing in this miraculous event with fellow Christians every week, for many every day? Can he boast of making the world a better place by countless prayer, offering to God the needs of thousands of people, whether by the rosary, novena, or any personal prayer? Can he boast of living a contemplative lifestyle, where thousands of monks, nuns, and other religious have given their lives for Christ and His Church. Absolutely not! The Church is the greatest mission and the greatest charitable institution throughout the world. We all are not called to be famous, world-renowned saints. Nevertheless, all of us are called to always be faithful to Christ to save our souls, the souls of others, and to strengthen Christ’s Church. These acts and the people that do such acts should never be compared to the secular works of Gandhi. There is no comparison. Who is greater? I have much more admiration for the devout Catholic who through their faithfulness and righteiousness bring 10 people to the Holy Mother Church, then I do for Gandhi, who even if he saved 10 million from poverty, could never compare to that one Catholic individual, who eternally saved 10.
  1. No. Gandhi could not boast about recieving the Eucharist. But, then again, neither can we.
  2. Can he boast making the world a better place through prayer? Well, I don’t know. He certainly made the world a better place,
    . Gandhi said that, “Prayer is not an old woman’s idle amusement. Properly understood and applied, it is the most potent instrument of action.” and that “Prayer is the key of the morning and the bolt of the evening.” and that, “Prayer has been the saving of my life. Without it I should have been a lunatic long ago. My autobiography will tell you that I have had my fair share of the bitterest public and private experiences. They threw me into temporary despair, but if I was able to get rid of it, it was because of prayer.”
  3. A life of contemplation? No, Gandhi was more inclined towards action, not that action is by any means superior to contemplation.
  4. I would hardly call Gandhi’s works secular. After all, where there is love, there is God. And he didn’t get anyone out of poverty. He did, however, plant the seeds of peace.
  5. Well, actually, I personally can say that encountering Gandhi led me to deeper contemplation about my religion, and to begin my discernment towards monasticism. He was not a Catholic, but he has helped me look deeper into Catholicism, and sparked an interest in monastic life. To quote Martin Luther King Jr. (not a fan of MLK), “Jesus gave me the message; Gandhi gave me the method.” And for that, I will be eternally greatful to him.
 
  1. Boasting is an artifact of the sin of pride, and may well have been what kept Gandhi from achieving heaven, if he did not. It is what blinds someone to the evils of Nazism, for example, or to despise people wholesale because of their country of birth. It is the oil of revolution, as revolutionaries require pride in abundance.
  2. What matters is what pleases God, not what pleases us. Mother Teresa may well have pleased God more than Gandhi, despite her accomplishments being confined to the spiritual rather than the political.
  3. Those who argue so for Gandhi seem to operate under the fallacy that salvation is earned rather than a gift of God. Only Christ can be said to have earned salvation.
  4. If political success is to be determinitive here, point me to the person who did more to save civilization, single-handedly, than Gandhi’s nemesis, Sir Winston Churchill. May we presume that Churchill is among the choir invisible in this case? Perhaps Gandhi might have emulated Churchill’s magnanimity and so stood in better stead, then. Of course, Churchill’s ego may have dwarfed Gandhi’s, but if service is the yardstick, Churchill has some room to spare to get through the Narrow Gate.
  1. What did Gandhi boast about? From what I’ve read, he was an extremely humble man. Also, Gandhi was hardly blinded from the evils of Nazism, he was just not convinced that killing was the way to deal with it. I disagree with him on this point, I think war against the Nazis was entirely justified. But Gandhi’s opposition to War was out of love, misguided as it might have been.
  2. Right, and I believe that Gandhi’s work indeed pleased God. His failure to accept Christ probably angered God. But I trust in God’s goodness, and God’s justice. If Gandhi is in Heaven I will rejoice for him as I will for every other soul that is saved. If he is not, well, justice will have been done, and I will grieve for him as I will grieve for every other damned soul, if not more so.
  3. I do not operate under this fallacy. Gandhi had immense faith in God, just not the correct understanding of Him.
  4. I’m not judging by contributions to society. I’m judging by apparent personal character. Gandhi was humble, faithful, self-denying, and loving to a fault. Winston was a jerk, plain and simple. As Louis Fiscer put it, Churchill would have died to keep Britain free, but he refused to give anyone else that right.
 
This is one of the things that really irritates me about some-to-many Evangelical/Fundamental/Baptist Protestants. They judge Roman Catholicism/Eastern Orthodoxy (and, to a lesser degree, Anglicanism) for having proclaimed named Saints (outside of the whole asking-Saints-for-intercession issue, isn’t the idea of the Church naming Saints simply its declaring that so-and-so is now in Heaven), yet these same groups loudly proclaim who is in Hell.

In the end, wherever Gandhi (or anyone else for that matter) spends their eternity is up to God. Although I have my own beliefs on Salvation (specifically, I lean towards Free Grace theology, check out www.faithalone.org if you are interested), in the end, its up to God.

Perhaps the ‘Jesus Prayer’ (we actually have pamphlets on it at the Episcopal chapel I attend) puts it best:

“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”
Hello nspr7. Just a question. What makes you think it was a Protestant answering Colraine? (sorry don’t remember the name). I see plenty of Christian Catholics with the same idea. I agree with you wholeheartedly though, we can judge NO ONE. We do NOT know the state of a person’s soul when s/he dies, or when they live. God’s judgement is the final one. Our judgements are so much chaff in the wind.

“Greater love has no man than to lay down his life for his friends”. Isn’t this what Gandhi did?🙂 Peace.
 
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