Gaps in Evolution

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StAnastasia said:
Charles Darwin, I agree with you that the logical conclusion of most religions’ exclusionary views is that the large mass of humanity will eventually wind up spending “eternity” (whatever that is) in someone else’s hell!😃 But please note that not all of us who are Catholic accept the old “no salvation outside the church” dictum.
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what do you mean by that? Are you saying the Church once did, because as far as I know we still do. Those that have enough information about the Church teaching and still decide to ignore it are doomed to loose their salvation. But I have to indicate in order for someone to loose their salvation, it takes more then saying “I don`t agree with the Pope”.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Faith is necessary for knowing Truth?

Thats not even worth answering. Faith in the religous sense is belief that is not based on proof.

QUOTE]

its not just proof that is necessary to have some type of faith, but also logic. If you ask me, God is the most logical answer for everything that exists. I`m not going to sit around and wait for some men to come up with a leading theory.
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Benjamin8o8 said:
to extand Josies question, I also would like to add: if a great amount of people started to believe in Santa Clause or start worshiping aliens, I don`t think I would spend so much time debating against them as atheist attempt to debate Catholics and religions influenced by original Christianity (ie Islam, Christian sects and others).
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You might if some of them wanted evolution taken out of schools to be replaced by santa poofed us all into existence.
 
josie_L said:
Yes, I’ve noticed this too. And notice also how they never bother to give us a real explanation for why their worldview is correct as much as they’re concerned with attacking our beliefs.
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I agree. This is the part that I find most frustrating about these types of debates. Theists try to come up with reasons as to why evolution can’t be true and think that proves a creationist view (which it doesn’t). Atheists then try to come up with reasons as to why creationism can’t be true and think that proves an evolutionist view (which it doesn’t).

If I can prove that 2+2 does not equal 5, that doesn’t mean that I’ve proved that it equals 4. Proving the other person wrong is only half the battle of proving your point right.
 
curioosbadger said:
youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg&feature=related

because the conversation gives me perspective, the more back and forth I get, the more arguments I see and I get a chance to go out and really investigate them so I have the answers ready when I find myself put on the spot.
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The perspective of whom the “feeble-minded” (making reference to Charlie Darwin’s comment). :rolleyes: If you really want to know the best arguments against atheism we have in our arsenal why don’t you go read Chesterton, Belloc, Kreeft, Lewis, Dawson, Maritain, Von Hildegaard (even our wonderful Pope Benedict) and other Christian intellectual giants. In fact, I’m in the process of reading " A Refutation of Moral Relativism" by Peter Kreeft. It’s pretty good. 👍
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
what do you mean by that? Are you saying the Church once did, because as far as I know we still do. Those that have enough information about the Church teaching and still decide to ignore it are doomed to loose their salvation. But I have to indicate in order for someone to loose their salvation, it takes more then saying “I don`t agree with the Pope”.
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I’m not a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists are people who say that if you’re not part of their group you’re not saved or not going to heaven or not chosen. Fundamentalist Lubavitscher Jews will hold a funeral for a son or daughter who marries outside their faith community. Fundamentalist Protestants say that if you are a Catholic or if you don’t accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior you’re going to hell. Fundamentalist Catholics say that if you don’t accept the Magisterium as conveying the final and absolute truth you are outside the Church – "nulla salus extra ecclesiam. Fundamentalist Muslims say that if you don’t confess the Shahadah you are an infidel and not destined for heaven. Mormons say if you are not Mormon you cannot obtain a place in the highest heaven.

Then there are the rest of us, who follow one or another faith, but who are not so exclusivist as to say that whoever is not of our particular confession or faith is not saved, or is going to hell, or is not gong to heaven, or not going to the highest heaven.

StAnastasia
 
akoso said:
I agree. This is the part that I find most frustrating about these types of debates. Theists try to come up with reasons as to why evolution can’t be true and think that proves a creationist view (which it doesn’t). Atheists then try to come up with reasons as to why creationism can’t be true and think that proves an evolutionist view (which it doesn’t).

If I can prove that 2+2 does not equal 5, that doesn’t mean that I’ve proved that it equals 4. Proving the other person wrong is only half the battle of proving your point right.
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Welcome to CAF (atheists who play nice are always welcomed). 🙂
 
StAnastasia said:
I’m not a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists are people who say that if you’re not part of their group you’re not saved or not going to heaven or not chosen. Fundamentalist Lubavitscher Jews will hold a funeral for a son or daughter who marries outside their faith community. Fundamentalist Protestants say that if you are a Catholic or if you don’t accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior you’re going to hell. Fundamentalist Catholics say that if you don’t accept the Magisterium as conveying the final and absolute truth you are outside the Church – "nulla salus extra ecclesiam. Fundamentalist Muslims say that if you don’t confess the Shahadah you are an infidel and not destined for heaven. Mormons say if you are not Mormon you cannot obtain a place in the highest heaven.

Then there are the rest of us, who follow one or another faith, but who are not so exclusivist as to say that whoever is not of our particular confession or faith is not saved, or is going to hell, or is not gong to heaven, or not going to the highest heaven.

StAnastasia
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Do you believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life?

P.S. I think you misunderstand “nulla salus extra ecclesiam” as it is interpreted by the CC.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
You might if some of them wanted evolution taken out of schools to be replaced by santa poofed us all into existence.
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But we Catholics are not the one’s who want evolution taken out of schools (that’s the fundamentalists). Do you have that problem in Scotland?
 
josie_L said:
But we Catholics are not the one’s who want evolution taken out of schools (that’s the fundamentalists). Do you have that problem in Scotland?
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yes, since when did the Catholic Church protest or attempted evolution to be taken out of school. Wasn`t it a Catholic Priest who came up with the big bang theory in the first place?:confused:
 
Whether or not one subscribes to a form of creation or evolution, the question of most significant personal impact is whether Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ of the Bible is God. This “Charles Darwin” character will go on providing a meaningless distraction from the crucial question for as long as he is given ear. He also must provide an answer to the question of Christ. If you believe Christ, follow him, do as he taught, respect what he instituted. The Bible traces the real, human ancestry of Jesus Christ back to Adam, the son of God. Believe it or don’t.👍
 
josie_L said:
But we Catholics are not the one’s who want evolution taken out of schools (that’s the fundamentalists). Do you have that problem in Scotland?
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No scotland is pretty much an atheist country. I know like two people under the age of 60 that believe in god and go to church.

However it doesn’t matter what country it is in, it still effects us all. Also there are plenty of fundamentalist catholics though i accpet there are plenty of catholics that are not.
 
akoso said:
Atheists then try to come up with reasons as to why creationism can’t be true and think that proves an evolutionist view (which it doesn’t).

If I can prove that 2+2 does not equal 5, that doesn’t mean that I’ve proved that it equals 4. Proving the other person wrong is only half the battle of proving your point right.
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Err no.

Evolution is accepted because of the overwhelming evidence that supports it.

Evolution is not tied to atheism.

“If I can prove that 2+2 does not equal 5, that doesn’t mean that I’ve proved that it equals 4.”

I suggest you learn the basics of the scientific method, here watch this…

tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=69ad09a7b6404d412f90
 
texson said:
Whether or not one subscribes to a form of creation or evolution, the question of most significant personal impact is whether Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ of the Bible is God. This “Charles Darwin” character will go on providing a meaningless distraction from the crucial question for as long as he is given ear. He also must provide an answer to the question of Christ. If you believe Christ, follow him, do as he taught, respect what he instituted. The Bible traces the real, human ancestry of Jesus Christ back to Adam, the son of God. Believe it or don’t.👍
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I prefer beliefs based on evidence. 👍
 
Benjamin8o8 said:
what do you mean by that? Are you saying the Church once did, because as far as I know we still do. Those that have enough information about the Church teaching and still decide to ignore it are doomed to loose their salvation. But I have to indicate in order for someone to loose their salvation, it takes more then saying “I don`t agree with the Pope”.
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She holds many heretical positions.
 
StAnastasia said:
I’m not a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists are people who say that if you’re not part of their group you’re not saved or not going to heaven or not chosen. Fundamentalist Lubavitscher Jews will hold a funeral for a son or daughter who marries outside their faith community. Fundamentalist Protestants say that if you are a Catholic or if you don’t accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior you’re going to hell. Fundamentalist Catholics say that if you don’t accept the Magisterium as conveying the final and absolute truth you are outside the Church – "nulla salus extra ecclesiam. Fundamentalist Muslims say that if you don’t confess the Shahadah you are an infidel and not destined for heaven. Mormons say if you are not Mormon you cannot obtain a place in the highest heaven.

Then there are the rest of us, who follow one or another faith, but who are not so exclusivist as to say that whoever is not of our particular confession or faith is not saved, or is going to hell, or is not gong to heaven, or not going to the highest heaven.

StAnastasia
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If you find yourself in heaven it will have been through the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which Jesus founded for that very reason.

That is Catholic Church teaching.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
I prefer beliefs based on evidence. 👍
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Twenty Arguments For The Existence Of God

An effective rational argument for God’s existence can be an important first step in opening the mind to the possibility of faith – in clearing some of the roadblocks and rubble that prevent people from taking the idea of divine revelation seriously.


  1. *] The Argument from Change
    *] The Argument from Efficient Causality
    *] The Argument from Time and Contingency
    *] The Argument from Degrees of Perfection
    *]The Design Argument
    *]The Kalam Argument
    *]The Argument from Contingency
    *]The Argument from the World as an Interacting Whole
    *]The Argument from Miracles
    *]The Argument from Consciousness
    *]The Argument from Truth
    *]The Argument from the Origin of the Idea of God
    *]The Ontological Argument
    *]The Moral Argument
    *]The Argument from Conscience
    *]The Argument from Desire
    *]The Argument from Aesthetic Experience
    *]The Argument from Religious Experience
    *]The Common Consent Argument
    *]Pascal’s Wager
 
josie_L said:
Do you believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life?

P.S. I think you misunderstand “nulla salus extra ecclesiam” as it is interpreted by the CC.
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Of course. How do you understand the Latin phrase, other than as meaning “no salvation outside the Church”?
 
buffalo said:
If you find yourself in heaven it will have been through the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which Jesus founded for that very reason.

That is Catholic Church teaching.
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In Muslim teaching, if you find yourself in heaven it will be through the recitation of and assent to the Shahadah.
 
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