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Charles_Darwin
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No, they require REAL explanations.
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josie_L
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This is because people refuse to do an “honest day’s work” in regard to seeking truth. It’s either that or they are too stubborn and prideful to seek it.I will say it again - most atheists do not know history or the methods historians use.
This guy keeps confirming it over and over.
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josie_L
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So what real explanations for the Big bang do you have?
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Charles_Darwin
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Thw writers of the new NT were NOT contemporary nor was Josephus. So you still have not named one.
Alexander the great did not “rise from the grave”. Like i said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
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Charles_Darwin
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We don’t have any, AND GUESS WHAT!!!..
Its OK to say “WE DONT KNOW”. Its alot better than making up silly answers. Like we did before we understood evolution, germs, earth quakes etc etc. I wonder where god is going to hide when we understand the origins of the big bang???
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Charles_Darwin
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I don’t have an ego, you just don’t understand how obtuse and instulting it is to hear people say there going to pray to their magic man for me. Please don’t pray for me, i want nothing to do with your unfounded myths.I’ll also pray that your massive ego be replaced with humility.
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josie_L
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How are the writers of the NT not contemporaries of Jesus??? And Josephus if I’m not mistaken was living within the same time frame as those who knew Jesus (he even wrote about James the Just who was a contemporary of Jesus). Furthermore, we are only claiming the historicity of Jesus as man (not God), hence, I don’t need extraodinary evidence. If you did a little homework you would know this.
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josie_L
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God doesn’t have to hide because He’s the one who created the Universe and the laws that bring it together so any advances that science makes will do no harm to Him or my faith.
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josie_L
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If it isn’t real then my prayers shouldn’t bother you. Moreover, I never meant to insult you whereas you meant to insult me.
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Charles_Darwin
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Josephus was not born till after jesus died, so anything he wrote is hersay and thats even allowed in a modern court, let alone as evidence for the supernatural. You should do your home work, none of the real writers ever mentioned jesus.
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Charles_Darwin
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Of course it bothers me, and i did not mean it as in insult. Its was an analogy.
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Charles_Darwin
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I’m not into preaching. Evidence please.
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josie_L
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I said Josephus was alive while Jesus’s contemporaries (the apostles and writers of the NT) were still roaming the earth. I will discontinue this conversation as you have obviously chosen to disregard the consensus (by historians) regarding Jesus’s existence.
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Charles_Darwin
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I have already explained, thats hersay. It’s not even good enough to get someone convicted of shop lifting let alone count as evidence for the supernatural. I’m sorry to be the one to break this to you, but there is anything but a consensus (by historians) regarding Jesus’s existence. Please point me to this “consensus”.
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Convert66
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There are over twenty exceptions to the “hearsay rule” in the Federal Rules of Evidence. One of these has to do with texts older than twenty-five years (maybe more, I don’t have it next to me) when other contemporaneous witnesses are not around (due to death, or just not answering a summons, etc.). If there were ever a court case to establish the historical existence of Jesus Christ it is arguable that the New Testament would be allowed into evidence under the hearsay exceptions.
It would be up to the judge or the appellate court to decide.
It’s sort of amusing how a thread entitled “gaps in evolution” evolved into a thread about the Historical existence of Jesus.
It would be up to the judge or the appellate court to decide.
It’s sort of amusing how a thread entitled “gaps in evolution” evolved into a thread about the Historical existence of Jesus.
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curioosbadger
Guest
the big bang is an explanation for why the universe seems to be expanding outwards from a single point. there are still alot of things we dont know and even things we think we know but could be proven wrong on as soon as we find some evidence to the contrary.
what if we find a far off galaxy which isnt moving in the direct we had expected it to? what if we find new properties of light which account for the appearance of expansion?
dont settle down for the watered down “everything exploded out of a singularity”, dig into the meat and potatoes of exactly what cosmology has concluded and why.
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Charles_Darwin
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Well we got off the “gaps in evolution” when it was established there isn’t any significant gaps.There are over twenty exceptions to the “hearsay rule” in the Federal Rules of Evidence. One of these has to do with texts older than twenty-five years (maybe more, I don’t have it next to me) when other contemporaneous witnesses are not around (due to death, or just not answering a summons, etc.). If there were ever a court case to establish the historical existence of Jesus Christ it is arguable that the New Testament would be allowed into evidence under the hearsay exceptions.
It would be up to the judge or the appellate court to decide.
It’s sort of amusing how a thread entitled “gaps in evolution” evolved into a thread about the Historical existence of Jesus.
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josie_L
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What we have established about the big bang is fact, no?
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StAnastasia
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Interesting question. Why do you need an explanation?
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josie_L
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“With few exceptions (such as Robert M. Price), scholars in the fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.[1]”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
JEWISH TESTIMONY
The earliest non-Christian testimony to the Lord’s existence is that of the Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus (A.D. 37-100). In Antiquities of the Jews, the historian twice referred to Jesus. In one passage he called Jesus “the Christ,” referred to His “marvelous deeds,” and alluded to His death and resurrection (18.3.3). Though some would dispute the genuineness of much of this reference, suggesting that it was embellished by an over-zealous Christian scribe, the passage, as it stands in all standard texts, can be defended (Jackson, 1991, pp. 29-30). In another place, Josephus commented on the trial of James, and identified Him as “the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ” (20.9.1).
Additionally, the Jewish Babylonian Talmud took note of the Lord’s existence. Collected into a final form in the fifth century A.D., it is derived from earlier materials, some of which originated in the first century. Its testimony to Jesus’ existence is all the more valuable, as it is extremely hostile. It charges that Christ (Who is called Ben Pandera) was born out of wedlock after His mother had been seduced by a Roman soldier named Pandera or Panthera. Respected scholar Bruce Metzger has commented upon this appellation: “The defamatory account of his birth seems to reflect a knowledge of the Christian tradition that Jesus was the son of the virgin Mary, the Greek word for virgin, parthenos, being distorted into the name Pandera” (1965, p. 76). The Talmud also refers to Jesus’ miracles as “magic,” and records that He claimed to be God. It further mentions His execution on the eve of the Passover. Jewish testimony thus supports the New Testament position on the historical existence of Jesus.
ROMAN SOURCES
There are allusions to Christ in Roman times (see Bettenson, 1961, pp. 3-7).
Pliny, governor of Bithynia, wrote the Roman emperor Trajan (c. A.D. 112), asking for advice about how he should deal with Christians who made it a practice to meet on an appointed day to sing a hymn “to Christ as if to God” (Epist. X.96).
The Roman historian Tacitus, in his Annals (c. A.D. 115), referred to “Christus,” who “was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius” (XV.44).
Writing about A.D. 120, Suetonius, a popular Roman writer, declared that Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome because they “were continually making disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus” (Vita Claudii XXV.4). “Chrestus” is a corrupted form of Christos (Christ). Luke alluded to this situation in Acts 18:2.
ANTAGONISTS OF CHRISTIANITY
Another line of evidence establishing the historicity of Jesus is the fact that the earliest enemies of the Christian faith did not deny that Christ actually lived (see Hurst, 1897, 1:180-189).
Celsus, a pagan philosopher of the second century A.D., produced the oldest extant literary attack against Christianity. His True Discourse (c. A.D. 178) was a bitter assault upon Christ. Celsus argued that Jesus was born in low circumstances, being the illegitimate son of a soldier named Panthera (see above). As he grew , He announced Himself to be God, deceiving many. Celsus charged that Christ’s own people killed Him, and that His resurrection was a deception. But Celsus never questioned the historicity of Jesus.
Lucian of Samosata (c. A.D. 115-200) was called “the Voltaire of Grecian literature.” He wrote against Christianity more with patronizing contempt than volatile hostility. He said Christians worshipped the well-known “sophist” Who was crucified in Palestine because He introduced new mysteries. He never denied the existence of Jesus.
Porphyry of Tyre was born about A.D. 233, studied philosophy in Greece, and lived in Sicily where he wrote fifteen books against the Christian faith. In one of his books, “Life of Pythagoras,” he contended that magicians of the pagan world exhibited greater powers than Christ. His argument was an inadvertent concession of Jesus’ existence, and power.
THE PATRISTIC WRITERS
The Patristic writers authored significant works between the end of the first and eighth centuries A.D. These so-called “church fathers” (patres) produced volumes important to understanding the changes occurring in the Christian religion during the post-apostolic age, and testify profusely to the historical Christ (see Bettenson, 1956).
Polycarp (c. A.D. 69-155), for example, lived in the city of Smyrna in Asia Minor. He spoke passionately of Christ, and wrote against certain heretics of his day. Irenaeus (c. A.D. 130-200) said that Polycarp had personal association with the apostle John, and with others who “had seen the Lord” (Eusebius V.XX). He died a martyr, having served Jesus Christ for eighty-six years (suggesting that almost his entire life was dedicated to the Savior). The testimony of the “church fathers” certainly is more compelling than the trifling objections of biased critics who are twenty centuries removed from the facts.
apologeticspress.org/articles/87
to be continued . . .
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