Gardasil thread

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Should adults get Gardasil? Teenagers? Little girls? Should it be required for anything?
I personally think women about to be married should get it, to protect themselves. I think forcing it on children is basically ordering them to hurry up and be available. That is a chilling message.
 
I think it should be available to teens as even though them having sex is wrong many of them have sex/are pressured into it anyway. I don’t think it’s pressuring them or telling them it’s okay to have sex. Also, there is the issue or rape or molestation - it’s important to protect them, even if we don’t agree with having pre-marital sex.
 
I feel that having girls given this vaccine and expecting them to instantly become sexually active is as absurd as expecting a child who has just been given a tetanus booster to be allowed to step on rusty nails. “It’s okay, she’s had her shots!”

Doesn’t make sense in either scenario. All you have is a well-protected child. In the possibility that it is needed, the protection is there. Even if you don’t need it for years to come. Or ever at all.
:twocents: and I'm off to bed...for the reals this time.
 
I feel that having girls given this vaccine and expecting them to instantly become sexually active is as absurd as expecting a child who has just been given a tetanus booster to be allowed to step on rusty nails. “It’s okay, she’s had her shots!”
Apples and oranges argument.
One activity is pushed through peer pressure, and may well feel good…the other is both painful, and certainly not pushed by society upon the youth…I’ll let you decide which is which.😃

I view this vaccine as just one more thing that lowers the stakes involved in the decision. Yet another thing society can sell to young people to say “see, you are protected now, Go ahead…”
 
At this point in time, I think this vaccine needs more testing. Why is it that all other vaccines, that I am aware of, do not require the staff to watch the patient for 15 minutes after having received the injection? Too many instances of women passing out, having seizures, and their have been reported cases of women dying. Now is this do exclusively to the vaccine, or the vaccine in combination with other chemicals in the patients body?
At this point we simple don’t know.

Another thing that concerns me. Why are no men/boys being given this vaccine? After all they get the virus too.

There is a thread on here somewhere were we discussed this already. I don’t recall what the title was. I will see if I can find it.
 
At this point in time, I think this vaccine needs more testing. Why is it that all other vaccines, that I am aware of, do not require the staff to watch the patient for 15 minutes after having received the injection? Too many instances of women passing out, having seizures, and their have been reported cases of women dying. Now is this do exclusively to the vaccine, or the vaccine in combination with other chemicals in the patients body?
At this point we simple don’t know.

Another thing that concerns me. Why are no men/boys being given this vaccine? After all they get the virus too.

There is a thread on here somewhere were we discussed this already. I don’t recall what the title was. I will see if I can find it.
The side effects are pretty mild given what we see on TV every day. Ever listen to the side effects for pain medications? or God forbid, restless leg syndrome? LOL…

There is plenty of evidence that the vaccination is worthwhile and it removes a terrible cancer from our girls. I assume that the vaccine doesn’t work in males, otherwise it would be given them. Same as contraceptives, men get no effect from taking the pill.
 
The side effects are pretty mild given what we see on TV every day. Ever listen to the side effects for pain medications? or God forbid, restless leg syndrome? LOL…

There is plenty of evidence that the vaccination is worthwhile and it removes a terrible cancer from our girls. I assume that the vaccine doesn’t work in males, otherwise it would be given them. Same as contraceptives, men get no effect from taking the pill.
Could also be because males (obviously) have no risk of complications from HPV such as cervical cancer - not having cervixes!
 
The side effects are pretty mild given what we see on TV every day. Ever listen to the side effects for pain medications? or God forbid, restless leg syndrome? LOL…

There is plenty of evidence that the vaccination is worthwhile and it removes a terrible cancer from our girls. I assume that the vaccine doesn’t work in males, otherwise it would be given them. Same as contraceptives, men get no effect from taking the pill.
The fact is this vaccine is too new to know that for a fact. The FDA has approved a number of other drugs which were believed to be safe only to find out later they really where not. If this vaccine is so safe why are the patients required to stay and be monitored for 15 minutes after the vaccine has been administered? I have had the rabies vaccine, something most people do not get, and they did not require this of me. I have never had that required before with any vaccine.

HPV is not the only way you get cervical cancer. Read the first link in my above post, we discussed many of this things in there.

Wikipedia has an interesting article about this.
 
Could also be because males (obviously) have no risk of complications from HPV such as cervical cancer - not having cervixes!
Perhaps.
But giving males the vaccine would eliminate the carriers.
Which theoretically could lead to a complete elimination of HPV.

Without HPV around, I guess the drug company wouldn’t be able to sell the vaccine anymore…🤷
So much for noble motivations.
 
Perhaps.
But giving males the vaccine would eliminate the carriers.
Which theoretically could lead to a complete elimination of HPV.

Without HPV around, I guess the drug company wouldn’t be able to sell the vaccine anymore…🤷
So much for noble motivations.
Can you please elaborate on this point. I am not sure I get what you are trying to say. Thanks.
 
Can you please elaborate on this point. I am not sure I get what you are trying to say. Thanks.
As long as you vaccinate only those that can have harmful effects from HPV, and not everyone, you insure that there will always be HPV.

The only way to eradicate HPV would be to vaccinate everyone.
Since they are not, I can only conclude that they have an interest in keeping HPV around.
 
Perhaps.
But giving males the vaccine would eliminate the carriers.
Which theoretically could lead to a complete elimination of HPV.

Without HPV around, I guess the drug company wouldn’t be able to sell the vaccine anymore…🤷
So much for noble motivations.
Since the chances of elinating those affected viruses are very slim due to the nature of this virus, it was most important to test it out on those who are going to adversely affected by it. When the test went to satisfaction, it was cleared for females. So now that it can make money, instead of solely losing money as an R&D project, it would make more sense to test it on males now-- which I believe is being done – to see how safe it is to give to them inorder to do as you state, to try to eliminate carriers.

As far as the question should I get the vaccine, know the risks of getting the shot and not getting the shot, and decide from there. Should it be mandatory, I think it’s premature to do so. It’d doubtful the virus will be wiped out, much less is there a good way to know if it is. No way of knowing how the virus will change. With that in mind, there is still always a safety risk. It would be more prudent to take more time to pin down even further the contraindications to it. Where though I think this vaccine could do a lot of good is the Third world, where there is little access to health care.
 
I view this vaccine as just one more thing that lowers the stakes involved in the decision. Yet another thing society can sell to young people to say “see, you are protected now, Go ahead…”
Now that is a great way to put it…lowering the stakes.

I just have a really hard time justifying anything, whether its teaching kids about b.c, “educating” them about condoms, about their “options,” that has the effect of lessening the stigma of becoming sexually active before you’re married. Not that it could be lessened much more.

Note: I am not advocating stigamatizing people who have sex before they marry. That would include myself. But if there is one thing society needs more of, it is the idea that it really is bad for you to have sex in high school, college, etc… it’s not just another equally valid “choice.” It’s a bad choice.

Giving a young girl a vaccine that ‘protects’ her (her body, but notice not her heart) only serves to give a contradictory message: Don’t do it. But you’ll be ok if you do. Huh?
 
Should adults get Gardasil? Teenagers? Little girls? Should it be required for anything?
I personally think women about to be married should get it, to protect themselves. I think forcing it on children is basically ordering them to hurry up and be available. That is a chilling message.
It should be given to whoever wants it, or whoever wants their children to have it, same as any other vaccine or protective medicine.

It should also be given for free, because the cost of treating HPV or Ovarian Cancer are much greater than the cost of an injection!

The idea that we should make it more and more unattractive for young people to have sex is an absurd argument against protecting people. Maybe we should inject everyone with a chemical that will kill them if they have sex, and only give them the antidote on their wedding night! Authoritarianism never kept people holy, it just kept ‘undesirable’ people excluded and hidden away.
 
Perhaps.
But giving males the vaccine would eliminate the carriers.
Which theoretically could lead to a complete elimination of HPV.

Without HPV around, I guess the drug company wouldn’t be able to sell the vaccine anymore…🤷
So much for noble motivations.
Can you please elaborate on this point. I am not sure I get what you are trying to say. Thanks.
As long as you vaccinate only those that can have harmful effects from HPV, and not everyone, you insure that there will always be HPV.

The only way to eradicate HPV would be to vaccinate everyone.
Since they are not, I can only conclude that they have an interest in keeping HPV around.
I am sorry I though that you were considering males as the only carriers. Now I understand that you suggested the vaccination of healthy carriers too.
 
I feel that having girls given this vaccine and expecting them to instantly become sexually active is as absurd as expecting a child who has just been given a tetanus booster to be allowed to step on rusty nails. “It’s okay, she’s had her shots!”

Doesn’t make sense in either scenario. All you have is a well-protected child. In the possibility that it is needed, the protection is there. Even if you don’t need it for years to come. Or ever at all.
Code:
:twocents: and I'm off to bed...for the reals this time.
I’m sorry, but the difference between a teenager’s urge to step on rusty nails and the urge to have premarital sex is so obvious as to not need addressing. So I’m not going to. I just had to point out the absurdity of that analogy.
 
The idea that we should make it more and more unattractive for young people to have sex is an absurd argument against protecting people. Maybe we should inject everyone with a chemical that will kill them if they have sex, and only give them the antidote on their wedding night! Authoritarianism never kept people holy, it just kept ‘undesirable’ people excluded and hidden away.
I thoroughly agree that the goal shouldn’t be to scare kids out of having sex. We should present all the costs, including the emotional ones, but also the enormous benefits, physical, mental and emotional ones of treating your body like something sacred, and as a gift to be saved for one person.

I do have to say, as a one-time teenager, who still remembers to some extent how his mind worked, and didn’t work, in his teen years, and who is astounded at how easily others forget, I find it undeniable that teenagers are extraordinarily susceptible to the power of suggestion, and their ability to make rational decisions is minimal at best. Most teenagers just do not comprehend the long term effects of their actions - they hardly think months ahead of time, let alone years. Thus the potential physical ramifications of having sex are going to be more prominent in their minds. I’m not saying leave them out to dry to suffer the consequences. I’m saying we should be realistic about what that message sends. It signals an expectation, the expectation that she needs to be protected. Teens are at least rational enough to know that if there wasn’t a good chance that they’d need protection, they wouldn’t be getting that shot. And that isn’t just a minor point, one more small thing in their minds. That amounts to a paradigm shift in the way that teens will approach their relationships. In the teenage mind, there is an enormous difference, in situations of compromise and temptation, between “I know I shouldn’t have sex at all,” and “I know I shouldn’t have sex, but my parents have acknowledged that I might, and acted as though I might.” It doesn’t take a psych major to think of the impact that will make on a teenage, hormone enraged, mind.

I just think its a reality that this attitude of inevitability of teenagers’ having sex is a historically new and recent phenomenon. There were times in history when young people were expected to wait until marriage - and by and large, they did.
Of course there has already been sexual immorality; it would be intellectually dishonest, however, to deny that we are living today in a moral chaos like few eras since before the dawn of Christianity. And so much of it has to do with our expectations. Teaching kids to use birth control ‘just in case’ is comparable to giving up on them.

This turned into something too long. I just had the thought - I’m pretty sure that for every degree closer to believing that “protecting” kids and teaching them about “safe sex” an individual gets, the less of a tragedy he or she probably thinks it is when teens do fall to that pressure. I, for one, consider every premature loss of virignity a tragedy. We’re children of God, made to love and be loved, made for union. We’re not made to give ourselves away before we even know what we’ve got.
 
Part of the reason cervical cancer is correlated with early sex apart from the number of partners is that a growing girl’s body is not actually mature enough to have sex without some tissue damage. It may be very slight, but between that and the immature immune system and chemistry, she is more vulnerable to all manner of STD’s and ambient infections. Early in life, these ambient infections can cause just as much harm as an STD. Giving a girl a false sense of security along with a message that she is now old enough when in fact she is extremely vulnerable to lifelong reproductive damage and all kinds of abuse just seems deadly to me. I’m thinking in the context of making Gardasil a requirement to enter middle school. A girl of 11 is a child and will be one for years. I remember the shock I walked around in at 11 and 12 knowing the stylish grownups of the time saw me as fair game, and I would hate to see another generation go through ten times that horror at such an impressionable age. Suppose a kid gets the shot, thinks it means she will now be “safe” if she consents to sex, feels she is being immature if she doesn’t have a boyfriend or two, given the obvious expectation she will be sexually active now, has no idea how to judge character yet, and gets together with a boy of 15 who assumes he will be sexually active since everyone seems to think so. She is far more vulnerable than an older girl to being beaten or emotionally broken down, getting a candida or other ambient infection, suffering lifelong complications from it, getting AIDS… the danger is astounding, even if she is vaccinated. And her childhood is gone before she has an adulthood to replace it with, leaving her nowhere at all. I just wish they would go chemically alter someone else for a change instead of making girls bear every cost for what is almost always at that age someone else’s idea.
The availability of the vaccine to adults and teenagers who ask for it from their doctors is a different story.
 
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