Garden of Eden if Middle East? How is that possible?

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I keep reading that people think the Garden of Eden was in the middle east. Also, two of the rivers “Tigris and Euphrates” are there.

However, 1. Wouldn’t the great flood have changed the shape of the land? (According to the young earth creationists, the flood is what caused our canyons and is what buried animals to create fossils, as well as our rock layers)

and 2. Are those 2 rivers (Now currently) supposed to be the same ones ones from the Garden of Eden, or are they just named the same.

and 3. Why would the Garden of Eden be where the rest of the bible takes place? What are the chances of Noah landing the Ark right back at the beginning. Logically the Garden could have been anywhere, and the flood took Noah to the middle east.

So why do we have 2 rivers named Tigris and Euphrates? Are they supposedly the same rivers,(and if that’s the case, why did they come to that conclusion since the entire would should have been reshaped) or are they named after them?
 
There is no reason why the river channels would have changed. I believe the rivers are much the same that they were then.

Even when rivers have gone extinct over time, the channels remain as dry valleys.

There is not enough water on the planet to cover the entire land surface. Since human life was limited to the Middle East, possibly the flood, which was sent as a punishment, was likewise limited to this region.

ICXC NIKA
 
Abraham originally came from the same general area as the garden.

*The LORD said to Abram: Go forth from your land, your relatives, and from your father’s house to a land that I will show you. (Genesis 12:1)

You, O LORD, are the God who chose Abram, who brought him out from Ur of the Chaldees, and named him Abraham. (Neimiah 9:7)

And he replied, “My brothers and fathers, listen. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was in Mesopotamia, before he had settled in Haran, and said to him, ‘Go forth from your land and [from] your kinsfolk to the land that I will show you.’ So he went forth from the land of the Chaldeans and settled in Haran. (Acts 7:2-4)*

Ur of the Chaldeans was at the westernmost tip of the “Fertile crescent”, roughly the same crescent shape that Abraham traveled from the city of Ur to the land of Canaan.



Our original father and mother, Adam and Eve, came from this area near the rivers, and Abraham, the “Father of Faith” to the Jews came from the same area. Jewish faith and their spiritual life originated with Abraham and rivers were always seen as a source of life and appear from the beginning of the Bible to the very end.

Then the angel showed me the river of life-giving water, sparkling like crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its street. On either side of the river grew the tree of life that produces fruit twelve times a year, once each month; the leaves of the trees serve as medicine for the nations. (Revelation 22:1-2)

John the Baptist calls people to repentance and baptism in a river. Even Jesus begins his ministry by being baptized in a river. The entire nation of Israel entered the promised land by crossing a river. Rivers had great symbolic meaning in the Bible, as sources if life and symbols of new beginning.

Somtimes however, crossing a river or moving away from a river meant the end.

…these are the ten tribes which were led away from their own land into captivity in the days of King Hoshea, whom Shalmaneser the king of the Assyrians led captive; he took them across the river, and they were taken into another land. (ezra 13:40)

This passage speaks about the ten northern tribes of Israel which were taken into captivity and exile by the Assyrians and who never returned.

There were two types of water in Jesus time. There was plain old water from a well, and there was “Living” water. Living water was moving water from a spring or a flowing river. Living water was superior to stagnant water. It was considered pure.

Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God and who is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.” (John 4:10)

Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again; but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life. (John 4:13)


Jesus says that he will give the Samarian woman living water, and the woman realizes that she is talking to the Messiah.

***The woman left her water jar and went into the town and said to the people, Come see a man who told me everything I have done. Could he possibly be the Messiah? *(John 4:28)

Upon realizing that she is talking to the Messiah, she immediately drops her jar of stagnant water from the well. Jesus even equates living water with the reception of the Holy Spirit.

On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and exclaimed, “Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as scripture says: "Rivers of living water will flow from within him.’” He said this in reference to the Spirit that those who came to believe in him were to receive. (John 7:37-39)

So when we see a river in scripture, we have to ask ourselve what the author is trying to tell us. It could be a new beginning, or the end of something. It could be a source of physical life or a metaphor for spiritual life… or a sign of baptism, like Noah’s flood.

Rivers, living water, lakes, springs, floods, the sea, they all have meaning. The beginning of all life on earth was near four rivers - that’s a lot of rivers in one place! This tells us how important it is.

-Tim-
 
GEddie, The rivers would have changed because such a great deal of water over the land will change the landscape. Its like pouring water over a bunch of dirt. When the water dries, the dirt will be different than before.

No global flood? I’ve never heard of that. Even scientists have found marine fossils on mountaintops. Also, the flood couldn’t have been just in the middle east or else all that water would run off into the ocean bringing the ark with it.

How do we know there’s not enough water to cover the earth? If all the ice melts, all the clouds rain, and all the underground water surfaces, that could be enough to cover the earth. The water drying up so quickly could also account to water going back underground. We also have to remember that with God anything is possible, so if he wanted to add more water than we have, and then take that water away, I believe he can do just that.

The church teaches that it was a worldwide flood.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4356&highlight=noah

Timothy, I understand that rivers have a lot of meaning, but it doesn’t mean that they are talking about the same rivers that flowed out of the garden. Also, the water that Jesus talks about most likely isn’t of this world. Just as his Kingdom isn’t of this world.
 
The “Garden of Eden” could have been simply a literary device…the Genesis account relays existential truth…not historical truth. Locating a garden lost in antiquity and most likely the product of myth to relate “truth” is not going to get one too close to the location of the garden…especially if it didn’t exist in the first place…in my mind it’s like trying to find the actual “Pandora’s box”…going to be difficult to do.🤷
 
Oops, Eden had to be true, just as the initial promise of life everlasting was true.

In any case, we aren’t going to find it again, not with angels hiding it. In addition to death, our punishment includes a loss of our spiritual senses. Anything angels hide will stay hidden.

ICXC NIKA
 
It would seem to me that there is an overlooked aspect of dimension here.

The spirit world is nothing but another dimension in the strictest sense.

A downgrade in spiritual/bodily dimension would be, to me, the most sensible aspect to approach this from.

If anything, the level of physics happening now is doing nothing but actually proving timeless concepts- as we’d expect. 😉
 
If Jesus can be present beneath the accidents of bread and wine–couldn’t the Gardwen of Eden be present beneath the accidents of present day Iraq?
 
There are many literal and spiritual theories and opinions regarding the 'Garden of Eden".

The ‘garden of Eden’ is also known as Paradise.

Tertullian speaks of this paradise as the one where the martyrs of our Lord Jesus Christ dwell ‘under the altar’ as spoken of in the book of Revelation.

Ireneaus speaks of paradise as the place where Enoch and Elijah went.

Jesus says to the thief on the cross, ’ I tell you this day, (pause) or , “This day you shall be with me in paradise”.

Acts 3 speaks of "the restoration of all things’, which several early church fathers believed to be the restoration of paradise on earth with restored Jerusalem at the center.

Origen theorized that it might be ‘in the air’ as spoken of in 1 Thessalonians; 'for the Lord shall descend with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, and we who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Paradise Lost and regained is a subject for much meditation.
 
While reading friend mercytruth’s post…I remembered a quote of George Fox when speaking of his new found life in Christ…“For I was brought up thru flaming sword into the paradise of God…” Our new “paradise”…our new “garden” is found when our new life in Christ is manifest in our world…that when we choose to follow Him…we have restored that which was lost to us…the “flaming sword” of the angel no longer separates us from where God walked 'in the cool of the evening".
 
While reading friend mercytruth’s post…I remembered a quote of George Fox when speaking of his new found life in Christ…“For I was brought up thru flaming sword into the paradise of God…” Our new “paradise”…our new “garden” is found when our new life in Christ is manifest in our world…that when we choose to follow Him…we have restored that which was lost to us…the “flaming sword” of the angel no longer separates us from where God walked 'in the cool of the evening".
Well no. Not in this life.

Just as we no longer have immortality of our bodies.

ICXC NIKA
 
While reading friend mercytruth’s post…I remembered a quote of George Fox when speaking of his new found life in Christ…“For I was brought up thru flaming sword into the paradise of God…” Our new “paradise”…our new “garden” is found when our new life in Christ is manifest in our world…that when we choose to follow Him…we have restored that which was lost to us…the “flaming sword” of the angel no longer separates us from where God walked 'in the cool of the evening".
Apparently, from a Rabbinic tradition it is a literal place. There were four rabbis who supposedly entered paradise (Pardes, or the Orchard). One of the rabbis immediately died, one went insane, one became a heretic and Rabbi Akiva came out in peace.

What is forgotten is that Rabbi Akiva subsequently anointed Ben Kochba as the Messiah. Ben Kochba was a persecutor of Jewish Christians who refused their allegiance to him. Ben Kochba and his army of resistance against Roman occcupation brought about the destruction of Israel and the diaspora of the Jews in Israel in the early 2nd century.
 
So most people think that the Garden of Eden was actually Heaven? Therefore not of this Earth?

So my question still remains as to why we have 2 rivers called the tigris and Euphrates. Are they supposodly the same rivers, and were believed to have been near the Garden at the time of naming? Or were they named after the rivers in the garden?

I just have a hard time believing that the garden was in the same place as Noah’s landing of the Ark, and the rivers still being intact. The flood should have changed the entire landscape of the world, and Noah could have floated from anywhere in the world, and landed in the middle east. (For all we know, humanity could have started out in Australia or South America)
 
So most people think that the Garden of Eden was actually Heaven? Therefore not of this Earth?

So my question still remains as to why we have 2 rivers called the tigris and Euphrates. Are they supposodly the same rivers, and were believed to have been near the Garden at the time of naming? Or were they named after the rivers in the garden?

I just have a hard time believing that the garden was in the same place as Noah’s landing of the Ark, and the rivers still being intact. The flood should have changed the entire landscape of the world, and Noah could have floated from anywhere in the world, and landed in the middle east. (For all we know, humanity could have started out in Australia or South America)
It is very possible that the garden of Eden was a literal place on earth. There be some archeological evidence for it. The other two rivers mentioned in the Genesis account may have since been covered by the Persian Gulf.
israel-a-history-of.com/biblical-garden-of-eden.html

It is also possible that there is a heavenly representation of the earthly garden of Eden.
Just as the tabernacle that Moses constructed in the wilderness was patterned after the heavenly tabernacle.
 
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