Gastric Sleeve Surgery

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Is Gastric Sleeve Surgery morally ok? If a person is obese according to medical standards is this procedure accepted within the church? My wife is serioulsy considering this but I have doubts on the procedure. maybe I’m old fashioned but cutting on your stomach makes me nervous and this procedure is a permanent change.

Just curious
thanks
 
Is Gastric Sleeve Surgery morally ok? If a person is obese according to medical standards is this procedure accepted within the church? My wife is serioulsy considering this but I have doubts on the procedure. maybe I’m old fashioned but cutting on your stomach makes me nervous and this procedure is a permanent change.

Just curious
thanks
Why not try exenatide injections or similar?
 
Is Gastric Sleeve Surgery morally ok? If a person is obese according to medical standards is this procedure accepted within the church? My wife is serioulsy considering this but I have doubts on the procedure. maybe I’m old fashioned but cutting on your stomach makes me nervous and this procedure is a permanent change.

Just curious
thanks
I never heard of it but assume it is an update of gastric bypass or similar surgery to limit how much food actually gets in the stomach and intestines. The Church has no position on a surgery that is medically necessary, and it is doubtful her doctor would do it or her insurance would approve it otherwise. Make sure she and you are educated on the relatives risks and benefits of the procedure, and if you are still unsure seek a second opinion, always wise before any surgery. I can’t think what the moral objection would be, unless it interferes with fertility in some way, but if she has doubts she (not you) should speak to her priest.
 
I would urge caution with gastic limiting surgeries unless the health of the person is seriously at risk in the short term. Unless the desire to overeat is controlled, a person can literally undo the effects of the surgery. You only have to take a look at some of celebrities who regained their weight after surgery to realize this.

I think some of the better programs require psychological counseling and a demonstrated ability to follow a dietician monitored weight reducing diet prior to surgery. I would also add spiritual counseling to help a person understand how vices can come into play with obesity.
 
I would urge caution with gastic limiting surgeries unless the health of the person is seriously at risk in the short term. Unless the desire to overeat is controlled, a person can literally undo the effects of the surgery. You only have to take a look at some of celebrities who regained their weight after surgery to realize this.

I think some of the better programs require psychological counseling and a demonstrated ability to follow a dietician monitored weight reducing diet prior to surgery.
It depends on what the issue is for that person though. Gastric surgery certainly helps those with satiety problems.
 
Its clearly morally okay–it’s a therapeutic procedure widely-accepted by medical professionals.

That said, this surgery is widely-accepted because of the reality that most individuals lack the self-discipline to stop overeating, and by making their stomachs the size of a fist, they have no choice but to eat small amounts. I have never seen any evidence that these surgeries are more effective than a diet to which one strictly adheres. And given the very serious risk of complications that go along with any bariatric surgery, I have a tough time accepting it simply a short-cut to self-discipline. Perhaps for some the drive to overeat is so strong it cannot be overcome. But I suspect most people just need stronger wills–and the fact that these surgeries are so widely seen as necessary is not a statement about the temptation, but our society’s general lack of discipline.
 
I think that’s quite a superficial analysis myself. What about people with polycystic ovary syndrome who have insulin resistance?
 
I think that’s quite a superficial analysis myself. What about people with polycystic ovary syndrome who have insulin resistance?
All that bariatric surgery does is make it so one cannot eat as much. Am I mistaken about this? (Please someone correct me if I am wrong; I’m certainly not an expert, but this is my somewhat educated understanding of bariatric surgery.) It also makes it so you do not absorb all of the food you eat, but that’s really not any different for your body than just eating less. Its no more effective than someone always by your side, stopping you from eating after you’ve had enough.

Bariatric surgery does not itself cure or treat any medical conditions; it simply forces the person to eat less. It is this eating less which helps the person. Eating less is something that people are typically able to do on their own. I’ve known many a competitive weight lifter or body builder who, during a dieting phase, eats very little every day, and none of it pleasant-tasting. I myself have been in the Army and rationed myself 1,200 calorie MRE through a whole day despite 12 mile hikes (which itself burns more than my single MRE). The point is, when properly motivated, most people can adopt sufficient discipline to eat less.

But again, as I said previously, some people clearly cannot. Whether because of physical or mental disorder, some people could not stop eating even if a gun was placed to their heads. Such people are, for whatever reason, addicted to food, and asking them to eat less is like asking an alcoholic to only drink half a beer. For such people, bariatric surgery is a Godsend because it makes them physically hurt after a few bites. For everyone else, everyone without a compulsion that borders on an addiction, I question the necessity of bariatric surgery.
 
It affects the satiety centre(s), just like exenatide - so it works in a different way from someone by your side stopping you eating.
Bariatric surgery actually does treat certain medical conditions.
All that bariatric surgery does is make it so one cannot eat as much. Am I mistaken about this? It also makes it so you do not absorb all of the food you eat, but that’s really not any different. Its no more effective than someone always by your side, stopping you from eating after you’ve had enough.

Bariatric surgery does not itself cure or treat any medical conditions; it simply forces the person to eat less. It is this eating less which helps the person. Eating less is something that people are typically able to do on their own. I’ve known many a competitive weight lifter or body builder who, during a dieting phase, eats very little every day, and none of it pleasant-tasting. I myself have been in the Army and rationed myself 1,200 calorie MRE through a whole day despite 12 mile hikes (which itself burns more than my single MRE). The point is, when properly motivated, most people can adopt sufficient discipline to eat less.

But again, as I said previously, some people clearly cannot. Whether because of physical or mental disorder, some people could not stop eating even if a gun was placed to their heads. Such people are, for whatever reason, addicted to food, and asking them to eat less is like asking an alcoholic to only drink half a beer. For such people, bariatric surgery is a Godsend because it makes them physically hurt after a few bites. For everyone else, everyone without a compulsion that borders on an addiction, I question the necessity of bariatric surgery.
 
It affects the satiety centre(s), just like exenatide - so it works in a different way from someone by your side stopping you eating.
Bariatric surgery actually does treat certain medical conditions.
Affecting satiety centres is another way of saying it makes you feel full. Feeling full is not a prerequisite to cease eating.

Let me rephrase this way. Bariatric surgery is no more effective than sufficient discipline to simply stop eating. Would you agree? Let’s take two overweight people. One attains enough discipline to eat only what his dietician proscribes per meal. Another has bariatric surgery. After a year, who is better off? Assuming the bariatric patient avoided any serious complications–which happen in approximately 25% of cases–they are exactly the same. This shows that bariatric surgery is no better than pure, old fashioned discipline.

Why do you suppose it is that are overweight today? Because our food is unhealthy? Doubtful–in the 1800’s they ate pig lard (talk about calorie dense foods!) Because we are more sedentary? Perhaps, but there have been desk-workers, such as lawyers and accountants, for hundreds or even thousands of years, and I’ve never heard such professions historically being home to obese people. No, the more likely factor is that today, we lack the discipline we once had.

Viewed from this perspective, the tougher but infinitely more beneficial answer to the obesity epidemic is not surgery that permits irresponsible behavior–encourages it, in fact, as many people with a BMI of less than 40 have been known to get FATTER to qualify for the surgery. What we need is greater emphasis of discipline. A more difficult solution, no doubt, but the only solution for the predicament we’re in.
 
Why do you suppose it is that are overweight today? Because our food is unhealthy? Doubtful–in the 1800’s they ate pig lard (talk about calorie dense foods!) Because we are more sedentary? Perhaps, but there have been desk-workers, such as lawyers and accountants, for hundreds or even thousands of years, and I’ve never heard such professions historically being home to obese people. No, the more likely factor is that today, we lack the discipline we once had.
I think another factor is the ready availability of food in large quantities at low prices.
 
I think another factor is the ready availability of food in large quantities at low prices.
That’s a good point. And surely the obesity epidemic is a combination of many of these things. But what is sure is that, if we had sufficient discipline, obesity would largely be limited to those with certain medical conditions that either make them gain fat no matter what they eat (thyroid problems, etc) and those with pathological addictions to food.
 
Yes, I think we know where you stand, but you haven’t given any reasons for your belief.

I invite others into the discussion.
It’s not a belief, it’s a fact:)
Have you proved your belief that they’re equivalent?:confused:
 
It’s not a belief, it’s a fact:)
Have you proved your belief that they’re equivalent?:confused:
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camerong:
Let’s take two overweight people. One attains enough discipline to eat only what his dietician proscribes per meal. Another has bariatric surgery. After a year, who is better off? Assuming the bariatric patient avoided any serious complications–which happen in approximately 25% of cases–they are exactly the same. This shows that bariatric surgery is no better than pure, old fashioned discipline.
This is how I proved that they are–for most people–equivalent. With which step in the above logic do you disagree? (Again, not for people who are addicted to food, but for anyone who physically CAN chose not to eat, bariatric surgery is no better than discipline.)
 
This is how I proved that they are–for most people–equivalent. With which step in the above logic do you disagree? (Again, not for people who are addicted to food, but for anyone who physically CAN chose not to eat, bariatric surgery is no better than discipline.)
You didn’t prove it at all.
The fact that one person can lose as much weight by a strict diet as another can via bariatric surgery does not mean that they are equally effective. That’s not logical.

Intention to treat analysis. That’s the important concept.
 
You didn’t prove it at all.
The fact that one person can lose as much weight by a strict diet as another can via bariatric surgery does not mean that they are equally effective. That’s not logical.

Intention to treat analysis. That’s the important concept.
Assuming the dieter and surgery patient lose the same amount of weight in the same period, what other measure of effectiveness do you want? Cost? Risk? Use of scare resources? All of these weigh strongly in favor of a strict diet. In fact, if someone can lose as much weight by a strict diet as with surgery, the diet is surely the MORE effective solution.

Intention to treat analysis is accounted for by ASSUMING a person has the sufficient level of discipline. Of course more people will lose bariatric surgery than with a strict diet–because most people lack the discipline. That’s my whole point. But ASSUMING a sufficient level of discipline, nearly all people can lose weight just as effectively (and with far fewer costs and complications) with a diet as with surgery. And, as I have also pointed out, this level of discipline is certainly attainable, and many people in all walks of life show extreme discipline with their eating habits. A former powerlifter myself, I once went several weeks of eating nothing but protein powder and vegetables and drinking pure olive oil. The wisdom of such a strategy aside–I was young and overzealous–such a program is far harder to comply with than the typical low-calorie diet for obese individuals.
 
Its clearly morally okay–it’s a therapeutic procedure widely-accepted by medical professionals.

That said, this surgery is widely-accepted because of the reality that most individuals lack the self-discipline to stop overeating, and by making their stomachs the size of a fist, they have no choice but to eat small amounts. .
maybe for some, for the vast majority who do choose bariatric surgery they have other, sometimes multiple health concerns, such as diabetes, other hormonal disturbances, which make weight loss nearly impossible simply by dieting. Most reputable programs require an extensive period of supervised dieting, even liquid diets, behavior modification, counselling and treatment of underlying conditions before surgery is considered. People on such regimens typically do lose some weight, but nothing as dramatic as weight loss after surgery, plus with some procedures reliance on insulin or other hormonals support is not necessary after surgery, reason enough to consider it. It can actually reverse diabetes so the benefits are real and go beyond weight loss.

OP’s decision is a prudential one, not a moral one
 
Intention to treat analysis is accounted for by ASSUMING a person has the sufficient level of discipline.
OK, which is not analysing by intention to treat at all!
 
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