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blessedtoo
Guest
Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!
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Cat
Guest
I play piano for several parishes. I play well. Even though I’m almost 50 (and look it), I get compliments about the music even from teenagers.
Maybe I play Here I Am Lord so that it doesn’t sound like the Brady Bunch. ??
It’s just personal preference, I think.
The problem, though, is that if the music truly makes you “gag” or gives you some other strong emotional reaction, I think that this negativity will be evident during the mass. Perhaps you have the fortitude to just stand there with a blank expression on your face (which is a poor witness to any Protestants who happen to be visiting, as they place great stock in the expressions on people’s faces; see the song, “Sweet Sweet Spirit” , specifically the line, “There are sweet expressions on each face…”).
But I find that if I don’t like the music, I communicate that dislike to those around me, even if I try not to.
In our old Protestant church, my husband had been on call, and after no sleep for over 48 hours, we went to church. The Praise Band started singing an old hymn in the old style, and it was very pretty and comforting. Then there was a drum lick and BOOM, the hymn switched to AMPLIFIED VERSION!!
My tired husband was so upset at the “jarring” change that he sat down and buried his head in his arms. I sat down with him. We were the only ones sitting in the middle of a group of hand-waving, hand-clapping, foot-stompin’, screeching AC DC wannabes.
I think it was obvious that we didn’t like the music.
I realize that was an extreme reaction.
Perhaps because I play, I have learned, over the years, to sense when music isn’t “going over.”
Also, I know that there are several families in my church who literally hate any music except Latin chant. I know because I have talked to them. They are very nice in most respects, but they are extremely closed when it comes to music.
So when we sing music in our church and I see them, I know what they are thinking.
And this bothers me. I try not to be bothered, but my attention wavers from the Lord and I start thinking about them and their hatred of the music.
So here is my point–what are the rest of the people supposed to do about it when it is obvious that the music “makes you gag?”
The answer, of course, is be charitable to weaker brothers. I think that answer applies on both sides of the issue.
Maybe I play Here I Am Lord so that it doesn’t sound like the Brady Bunch. ??
It’s just personal preference, I think.
The problem, though, is that if the music truly makes you “gag” or gives you some other strong emotional reaction, I think that this negativity will be evident during the mass. Perhaps you have the fortitude to just stand there with a blank expression on your face (which is a poor witness to any Protestants who happen to be visiting, as they place great stock in the expressions on people’s faces; see the song, “Sweet Sweet Spirit” , specifically the line, “There are sweet expressions on each face…”).
But I find that if I don’t like the music, I communicate that dislike to those around me, even if I try not to.
In our old Protestant church, my husband had been on call, and after no sleep for over 48 hours, we went to church. The Praise Band started singing an old hymn in the old style, and it was very pretty and comforting. Then there was a drum lick and BOOM, the hymn switched to AMPLIFIED VERSION!!
My tired husband was so upset at the “jarring” change that he sat down and buried his head in his arms. I sat down with him. We were the only ones sitting in the middle of a group of hand-waving, hand-clapping, foot-stompin’, screeching AC DC wannabes.
I think it was obvious that we didn’t like the music.
I realize that was an extreme reaction.
Perhaps because I play, I have learned, over the years, to sense when music isn’t “going over.”
Also, I know that there are several families in my church who literally hate any music except Latin chant. I know because I have talked to them. They are very nice in most respects, but they are extremely closed when it comes to music.
So when we sing music in our church and I see them, I know what they are thinking.
And this bothers me. I try not to be bothered, but my attention wavers from the Lord and I start thinking about them and their hatred of the music.
So here is my point–what are the rest of the people supposed to do about it when it is obvious that the music “makes you gag?”
The answer, of course, is be charitable to weaker brothers. I think that answer applies on both sides of the issue.
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
Actually for my :twocents: of all the modern hymns/songs/lyrics I’ve been forced to sing for diocesan events with my cathedral choir, I find Gather Us In the least objectionable. I’m 55. I remember what HMC was like before Vatican II. I have a different perspective.
I can’t stand Here I am Lord. Muppet music. (Definition of muppet music - if you can envision Kermit and Miss Piggy singing it, it is). The “You Who” song - I am the Bread of Life. Yikes! Or the “I Will Go UP!” (choir jumps up and does the wave) “To the Altar of God” that we have to sing for ordinations. Nope, I’ll take Gather Us In over all of these.
Actually, I’d like to hear us sing “Come Holy Ghost” or “To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King” or “Holy, Holy, Holy” or, perish the thought… “Immaculate Mary”.
The underlying question to all of this is that in the late 60s and 70s we still sang the old hymns in addition to such wonderful additions as the now politically incorrect “Sons of God”, “And They’ll Know We are Christians”, and any of the other hymns from the period which, I might point out, are no longer sung even though they were in the top 100 of post Vatican II hymns
As Catholics, we have 1500 + years of music in the well from which we can draw. Some of the composers we have at our call are of an infinitely higher caliber than Haugen, Haas, and Joncas.
The sad thing is that the average parish is hardly ever exposed to the musical riches we have as Catholics. They don’t know any better because they have never been exposed to it What a shock Mozart’s “Ave Verum Corpus” - simple 4 part polyphony must be to the P & W mindset! Yet, any P & W group should be able to sing it. It’s no different nor any harder to learn than any other 4 part harmony.
The baby got thrown out with the bathwater in 1969. I know. I served as an altar boy for the graduation class of my high school in 1968. The hybrid NO was still used and the hymns were the classic hymns we grew up with. When I graduated in May of 1969, we had made the transistion to the full NO and the hymns sung at my graduation were: “Sons of God” (Entrance); "Sounds of Silence [Simon and Garfunkle] (Offertory); “Bridge Over Troubled Water” [Simon and Garfunkle] (Communion);&
“They’ll Know We Are Christians” (Recessional).
In the general scheme of things, I don’t mind Gather Us In but I do bemoan what we have lost as a church.
I can’t stand Here I am Lord. Muppet music. (Definition of muppet music - if you can envision Kermit and Miss Piggy singing it, it is). The “You Who” song - I am the Bread of Life. Yikes! Or the “I Will Go UP!” (choir jumps up and does the wave) “To the Altar of God” that we have to sing for ordinations. Nope, I’ll take Gather Us In over all of these.
Actually, I’d like to hear us sing “Come Holy Ghost” or “To Jesus Christ, Our Sovereign King” or “Holy, Holy, Holy” or, perish the thought… “Immaculate Mary”.
The underlying question to all of this is that in the late 60s and 70s we still sang the old hymns in addition to such wonderful additions as the now politically incorrect “Sons of God”, “And They’ll Know We are Christians”, and any of the other hymns from the period which, I might point out, are no longer sung even though they were in the top 100 of post Vatican II hymns
As Catholics, we have 1500 + years of music in the well from which we can draw. Some of the composers we have at our call are of an infinitely higher caliber than Haugen, Haas, and Joncas.
The sad thing is that the average parish is hardly ever exposed to the musical riches we have as Catholics. They don’t know any better because they have never been exposed to it What a shock Mozart’s “Ave Verum Corpus” - simple 4 part polyphony must be to the P & W mindset! Yet, any P & W group should be able to sing it. It’s no different nor any harder to learn than any other 4 part harmony.
The baby got thrown out with the bathwater in 1969. I know. I served as an altar boy for the graduation class of my high school in 1968. The hybrid NO was still used and the hymns were the classic hymns we grew up with. When I graduated in May of 1969, we had made the transistion to the full NO and the hymns sung at my graduation were: “Sons of God” (Entrance); "Sounds of Silence [Simon and Garfunkle] (Offertory); “Bridge Over Troubled Water” [Simon and Garfunkle] (Communion);&
“They’ll Know We Are Christians” (Recessional).
In the general scheme of things, I don’t mind Gather Us In but I do bemoan what we have lost as a church.
C
Cat
Guest
As I am fairly new to the Catholic Church (April 10, 2004), I may be speaking out of ignorance.
I would venture to say that the reason why Catholic Churches do not introduce people to the 1500 years of the rich heritage of Catholic music is that most Catholic Churches don’t have a full-time music minister with that kind of background and education.
I attend (and play piano for) a large Catholic Church in the richest section of the city. The Music Director is very nice and does a good job, but isn’t a Full-Time Music director.
I also play for a poorer Catholic Church, and I happen to know that the budgeted salary for a Music Director for that church is twelve-thousand dollars. Obviously this isn’t a full-time salary. A good music minister would be hard to obtain at this wage, although I think that someone could suppliment that small stipend by teaching private lessons and accompanying. But I doubt that they could earn enough money to support themselves, let alone a family. This church has been looking for two years for a music director; currently laypeople do the work of planning the songs and music.
It’s no wonder that Catholic music in local churches is not always very organized and they do the same songs that everyone knows. It’s kind of hard to plan and produce a Bach cantata when you’re just a part-timer or just a lay volunteer.
Just playing Bach on the keyboard is no small feat. You have to have time to practice, and if you’re working at another job, perhaps a full-time job, and if you also have a family to take care of, you’ll be lucky to have time to run through “Gather Us In” with the cantor ten minutes before the mass.
Many evangelical Protestant churches DO have a full-time music minister, and pay him/her a very generous salary and benefits, enough to make a living on and support a family.
The question is, is music ministry something that Catholic churches want to make a priority?
Another question is, is it possible for a part-timer or lay volunteer to do the work of a full-time music minister? (My vote is no, but perhaps I’m a pessimist.)
I would venture to say that the reason why Catholic Churches do not introduce people to the 1500 years of the rich heritage of Catholic music is that most Catholic Churches don’t have a full-time music minister with that kind of background and education.
I attend (and play piano for) a large Catholic Church in the richest section of the city. The Music Director is very nice and does a good job, but isn’t a Full-Time Music director.
I also play for a poorer Catholic Church, and I happen to know that the budgeted salary for a Music Director for that church is twelve-thousand dollars. Obviously this isn’t a full-time salary. A good music minister would be hard to obtain at this wage, although I think that someone could suppliment that small stipend by teaching private lessons and accompanying. But I doubt that they could earn enough money to support themselves, let alone a family. This church has been looking for two years for a music director; currently laypeople do the work of planning the songs and music.
It’s no wonder that Catholic music in local churches is not always very organized and they do the same songs that everyone knows. It’s kind of hard to plan and produce a Bach cantata when you’re just a part-timer or just a lay volunteer.
Just playing Bach on the keyboard is no small feat. You have to have time to practice, and if you’re working at another job, perhaps a full-time job, and if you also have a family to take care of, you’ll be lucky to have time to run through “Gather Us In” with the cantor ten minutes before the mass.
Many evangelical Protestant churches DO have a full-time music minister, and pay him/her a very generous salary and benefits, enough to make a living on and support a family.
The question is, is music ministry something that Catholic churches want to make a priority?
Another question is, is it possible for a part-timer or lay volunteer to do the work of a full-time music minister? (My vote is no, but perhaps I’m a pessimist.)
P
PaulaB52
Guest
Sometimes, though, it’s the priest picking the music. At my old parish, where I was the secretary, our pastor was ALWAYS in charge of what music was played. He ALWAYS does Mass of Creation. He won’t sing/or have sung the prayers. Says “the congregation’s not ready for that yet”, even though we live in a very predominate Catholic area, so people have heard the prayers sung. He always picks Hugen/Hass music. Gather Us In/On Eagles’ Wings/Know we are Christians/Here I am are what we sing week in and week out. We have an accomplished cantor who can handle anything he gives her, but he insists on setting the pace, the tone, etc. It was such a huge issue for me and my dh, we eventually changed parishes. We called it “The Music Wars”. Very distracting.
I’d also like to put my :twocents: in on ex-Protestants and P & W music. I’m a cradle Catholic. When I was growing up, we didn’t have the music with the upbeat tempo that we have now. We sang the good old stand bys like Holy God We Praise Thy Name, and Immaculate Mary, and Holy Holy Holy. About the most upbeat we got was There is a Balm in Gilead. Catholics of my area, when I was growing up, just would not have felt it appropriate to have guitars and drums in Mass. Vatican II changes came very slowly to SW Louisiana. Music like some of the P&W I’ve heard at some of the teen Masses borders on hertical (in my opinion).
I think this may be why so many people have issues with songs like Gather Us In, etc. Maybe others are cradle Catholics like myself and just remember certain songs being sung as we grew up, and this new stuff just doesn’t cut the mustard.
I’d also like to put my :twocents: in on ex-Protestants and P & W music. I’m a cradle Catholic. When I was growing up, we didn’t have the music with the upbeat tempo that we have now. We sang the good old stand bys like Holy God We Praise Thy Name, and Immaculate Mary, and Holy Holy Holy. About the most upbeat we got was There is a Balm in Gilead. Catholics of my area, when I was growing up, just would not have felt it appropriate to have guitars and drums in Mass. Vatican II changes came very slowly to SW Louisiana. Music like some of the P&W I’ve heard at some of the teen Masses borders on hertical (in my opinion).
I think this may be why so many people have issues with songs like Gather Us In, etc. Maybe others are cradle Catholics like myself and just remember certain songs being sung as we grew up, and this new stuff just doesn’t cut the mustard.
R
Roselander
Guest
For those of you who hate the warm-fuzzy-hippie-dippy usic we’re subjected to at Mass, there is a website for The Society for a Moratorium on the Music of Haugen & Haas: www.mgilleland.com/music/moratorium.htm
They have some pretty funny parodies on it.
They have some pretty funny parodies on it.
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DiZent
Guest
I like that different styles of music are used. I like the Marty Haugen & David Haas music as well, but those songs do tend to be overused. My 81 year old mother likes them too. I also love pre-Vatican 2 hymns that were mentioned here. My parish is very fortunate to have had trained music teachers as music directors. The choir will sing Latin hymns on occasion. We’ve had a couple of priests that will add a bit of chant - and yes, the pastor does have final say about what hymns are used.
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mmm1
Guest
OK, I have to ask, is there anything really wrong, from a liturgical standpoint, with “Lord of The Dance” & “Here I Am, Lord”, or is it more of a musical taste thing? I know nothing about music, but I just love these songs. Is it because they are distracting in the Mass, or is there something wrong with the lyrics? I went to Catholic grade school in the 70’s, & we girls used to LOVE “I Am The Bread Of Life”. Isn’t that a good thing? I think anything that gets 7th graders thinking about the Eucharist is good. I honestly don’t think I know or remember any Gregorian chants or anything like that. I wish I did.
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