Gather Us In/Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald connection?

[promethius]

Yes, I feel somewhat the same. I’ve never really ever felt comfortable singing:
Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven, light-years away
here in this place the new light is shining
Now is the Kingdom, now is the day
That’s why I’ve relegated myself to playing that song when it comes around.

Is there something wrong with the church teaching that Mass unites us to the eternal worship in heaven and that by participating in mass we are directly participating in the SAME eternal worship with the saints in the Kingdom of God? The statement is true, when we are in mass, the Kingdom of God is present before us and we are participating in its worship.

There is nothing heretical about the song if you understand Catholic teaching regarding the universal and eternal nature of the mass.

 

[odile53]

Drat. There is one series of Sanctus and other responses which sound to me like they are in 6/8. That is precisely the rhythm and very close to the melody that was used in my old ballet company’s class for a particular barre exercise that was unusually difficult and off-rhythm enough to increase the difficulty of executing on the music. Worse yet, a piano is used for the choir’s accompaniment, making the similarity to company class all the more glaring. And still worse, one Sunday morning I found myself starting to place my feet in position to execute that old barre sequence. Thankfully, I caught myself in time to avoid making a spectacle of myself.

Thanks, guys. I hadn’t noticed the similarity between “Gather” and “Wreck.” I don’t like “Gather” as a church hymn, and conversely, I do like Lightfoot’s “Wreck.” Hope the association doesn’t ruin the latter for me!

Some merciful soul really needs to retire this hymnal!

 

[drforjc]

Is there something wrong with the church teaching that Mass unites us to the eternal worship in heaven and that by participating in mass we are directly participating in the SAME eternal worship with the saints in the Kingdom of God? The statement is true, when we are in mass, the Kingdom of God is present before us and we are participating in its worship.

There is nothing heretical about the song if you understand Catholic teaching regarding the universal and eternal nature of the mass.

Well, in my interpretation, it seems to say the exact opposite of what you say it says… it even seems to contradict itself. Not in… buildings… but here in this place… well, where do they think you are singing? In a place, but not in a building?

 

[promethius]

Well, in my interpretation, it seems to say the exact opposite of what you say it says… it even seems to contradict itself. Not in… buildings… but here in this place… well, where do they think you are singing? In a place, but not in a building?

not in buildings that are dark and confining. Have you ever been in a Catholic Church where you felt confined in the dark?

 

[ProVobis]

not in buildings that are dark and confining. Have you ever been in a Catholic Church where you felt confined in the dark?

Do you (and the other poster) always take the lyrics of a song literally? Do you stop and reflect on every syllable, word, phrase you sing? I don’t think I’d ever get through a song if I did that.

I wonder how many people pay attention to all the words they sing at the National Anthem or say at the Pledge, for example? Or do they just sing or say it for the sake of being patriotic? Just curious.

 

[Contarini]

Well, in my interpretation, it seems to say the exact opposite of what you say it says… it even seems to contradict itself. Not in… buildings… but here in this place… well, where do they think you are singing? In a place, but not in a building?

I think the theological point is that God’s presence is immanent in the gathered community–not spatially distant and not tied to the physical building per se.

I don’t think the point is unorthodox, but I think the polemical tone is inappropriate in a hymn. Some people might need to be reminded that the building per se is not the Church, or that God’s transcendence doesn’t mean that He is spatially distant from us; but other people need to be reminded that they are not God and God is not just your warm feelings of community projected onto infinity. Sacred space can make people more aware of the presence of God, and I have never felt comfortable singing words that sound as if they are denying this.

Personal note: my wife and I had our first quarrel (back when we started dating) over this hymn. I visited her [Methodist] church and she sang this as a solo. I made a disparaging reference to it afterwards, and we argued the point for quite a while, as I remember. . . .

I have softened my stance over the years–I don’t dislike the hymn as a whole and I can see why it meant a lot to Cat. But I’m glad to hear that this particular stanza is being omitted.

Edwin

 

[Erich]

And we can’t leave out the classic “Here I Am, Lord” as “The Brady Bunch” similarity:Here I am, Lord
It is I, Lord
I am bringing up three very lovely girls…

I came this close to needing a new keyboard. Fortunately I was able to stop myself from spewing coffee all over it when I read this!

Even the song from The Brady Bunch is not known by everyone. That song was popular during a small number of years (the 1970s). Cable TV and recording technologies (VCRs, DVDs, etc.) has made it possible for new generations to hear this song. But I daresay that many many people in the United States and the rest of the world do not know this song at all.

For which, I suppose, they ought to be eternally grateful

To this day, I can’t help but think of the theme song to Gilligan’s Island when I hear Amazing Grace, and I can’t help but think of Hernando’s Hideaway when I hear Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow (including a dip at the end for the “Amen”). And did you know you can sing Ode to Joy to the melody of Oh My Darling Clementine?

 

[puzzleannie]

To this day, I can’t help but think of the theme song to Gilligan’s Island when I hear Amazing Grace, and I can’t help but think of Hernando’s Hideaway when I hear Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow (including a dip at the end for the “Amen”). And did you know you can sing Ode to Joy to the melody of Oh My Darling Clementine?

do you realize you have just ruined liturgical music for a whole new generation?
oh and thanks I just paid big bucks for concert tickets, and guess what chorale movement is the highlight of the program.

 

[JHow]

This is a funny thread. There are only so many scales, chords, intervals and meters so simliarities between songs naturally exist (e.g., fire up any Chuck Berry or Beach Boys record and listen for that Johnny B Goode intro riff.).

I hadn’t noticed the Edmund Fitzgerald - Gather Us In similarity until this thread, but it does make you laugh. I’m ambivalent to Gather - Fitzgerald is okay - I’m mean, Lightfoot found a way to get the rhyme Git-chee-goo-mee in there (altohugh Longfellow beat him to it).

 

[ProVobis]

This is a funny thread. There are only so many scales, chords, intervals and meters so simliarities between songs naturally exist (e.g., fire up any Chuck Berry or Beach Boys record and listen for that Johnny B Goode intro riff.).

Indeed. And to think the Beatles were sued for just a 3-note similarity to “He’s So Fine.”

abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/mysweet.htm

 

[FAB]

I sing at 10:30 Mass, where our choir sings quite a few of the hymns you complain about (unfortunately)…However, the one which stands out is probably everyone’s least favorite “new age hymn”.

The reason our choir doesn’t sing “Gather Us In” so much is because our pastor Fr. Mark (who is one of the few conservative priests left in town) does NOT like that song…because it sounds too much like the Gordon Lightfoot hit “Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” (which he also doesn’t like). The few times we do use it, we make it up to him by singing “Alle, Alle, Alleluia” (have you heard it before)-one of his favorites-at the end.

Now that I’ve brought up an interesting point…anybody else feel the same?

Despite if your pastor likes the music the words of the song are correct. It recognizes that all of us in all our shapes and sizes are part of the body of christ and we are gathered in together as one to celebrate the great mystery of the mass.
It’s not new age it’s Church teaching.

 

[DeaconsSon87]

Despite if your pastor likes the music the words of the song are correct. It recognizes that all of us in all our shapes and sizes are part of the body of christ and we are gathered in together as one to celebrate the great mystery of the mass.
It’s not new age it’s Church teaching.

“Not in some heaven, light years away” is Church teaching?!

 

[Crdl2Grv]

.because it sounds too much like the Gordon Lightfoot hit “Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” (which he also doesn’t like).

What the --?! What kind of grim, cold-eyed Puritan doesn’t like The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald?! What else does he not care for? Chocolate? Puppies? The laughter of babies?

 

[Bluegoat]

What the --?! What kind of grim, cold-eyed Puritan doesn’t like The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald?! What else does he not care for? Chocolate? Puppies? The laughter of babies?

lol Too true.

 

[FatHead]

What the --?! What kind of grim, cold-eyed Puritan doesn’t like The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald?! What else does he not care for? Chocolate? Puppies? The laughter of babies?

i dont mind it, but its simply not suitable for mass. thats his point.

 

[GabrielPenfield]

Verse 4 of “Gather Us In” has been removed from the new GIA Worship 3 hymnal, on order from the Archbishop of Chicago.

 

[pnewton]

“Not in some heaven, light years away” is Church teaching?!

Yes. The light of Christ is not confined to Heaven. Where did I get “confined”? The context, as in, the word immediately preceding the quote above.

 

[JerrySeibert]

Never gave that song too much thought. I like it. Sorry as it seems others do not. It is one of my Pastors favorites as we sing it many times during Morning Mass.
The Associate Pastor’s favorite is, Immaculate Mary… I will have to ask him about this. As in a song last Sunday my Pastor looked at me when the Choir was practicing and said, “Does that not sound like Puff the Magic Dragon?” And quite frankly…it did. The point being you can take Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So, La, Ti, Do and only mix it up so many times and all you have are different words for the same tune. Music is not like dealing with quantum mechanics where as you have an infinite number of possibilities. Tempo and tune can only have x amount of possibilities.
While watching a “History of Music” show on the History Channel one of the guests went as far to play and sing a beautiful song that would be fit for any worship space… then ramped up the tempo and demonstrated that, that same beat was also used by a group called Metallica. Amazed me. I am no fan of Metallica but the similarity was astounding.
I think the spirit will carry you with the music, you at times may be open to it and enjoy how it soothes you or you may be closed to it for some reason, stress etc.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

This past week I have had the 2012 issue of Breaking Bread (Oregon Catholic Press) on my desk, examining each hymn. I am only about a third of the way through, but at least twenty songs I have X’d out for containing heretical or dangerously ambiguous lyrics. About half of those remaining have been flagged for vague or overly-narcissistic theology or for unusually difficult or awkward melodies. Most of the problems have been with communion hymns which refer to the people transsubstantiating into Christ, or Christ turning into bread and wine. Zion’s Harp, the hymnal of the Christian Apostolic Church, has far more respectful communion hymns, and as far as I know, they consider communion as strictly symbolic (though they prepare for weeks to receive it). Their hymns are in common-sense, 4/4 or 3/4 time and are completely singable, whereas a great number of contemporary Catholic hymns are essentially solo pieces. Is it any wonder that so many Catholics have given up singing?

 

[DaveBj]

I was big into folk music in the 60s and early 70s, but I had never heard “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald,” although I did know that it was a Lightfoot song. I just youtubed it and listened, and then youtubed “Gather,” and I don’t see any resemblance at all, except for the 6/8 time signature and the use of the flatted 7th. Neither of the two melodies are alike, nor are the chord sequences at all similar. Verdict: “TWotEF” is good folk music. “GUI” is mediocre, both as music in general and as folk music in particular. I will continue not to sing it when our music director picks it, but it won’t particularly remind me of “TWotEF.”