Gathering around the altar for communion

[new_User1357246]

My church does this, but claims that it is okay since nobody is on the same level as the altar. That is, the altar is on a small podium 6 inches above the rest of that part of the church, then, starting at about 6 feet from the altar there are several other raised levels that people stand on at this time.

Is this alright for them to do?

Even the bishop has celebrated mass there in this way (if I recall correctly…)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

My church does this, but claims that it is okay since nobody is on the same level as the altar. That is, the altar is on a small podium 6 inches above the rest of that part of the church, then, starting at about 6 feet from the altar there are several other raised levels that people stand on at this time.

Is this alright for them to do?

Even the bishop has celebrated mass there in this way (if I recall correctly…)

No one should be within the sanctuary area unless they need to be there because they are performing a liturgical function or are concelebrating. Even EMHC should not be in the sanctuary area until after the priest receives Communion. The Sancturay area is usually defined as the area behind the altar rail or where the altar rail used to be, or anywhere above the first step above the floor of the main church.

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM):
“195. … Then the lector takes his own place in the sanctuary with the other ministers.”
(From usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter4.shtml ).

Is there are place where lay ministers are meant to be, but the congregation is not meant to be? If not, I would say the Roman Missal is not being followed.

Similar ideas from other parts of the GIRM:

“294. … The priest celebrant, the deacon, and the other ministers have places in the sanctuary.”

How is it defined as a particular place?

“295. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, where the word of God is proclaimed, and where the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers exercise their offices. It should suitably be marked off from the body of the church either by its being somewhat elevated or by a particular structure and ornamentation.”

 

[John_Lilburne]

No one should be within the sanctuary area unless they need to be there because they are performing a liturgical function or are concelebrating. …

Priests do not need to be concelebrating. From the GIRM:
“310. … Likewise, seats should be arranged in the sanctuary for concelebrating priests as well as for priests who are present for the celebration in choir dress but who are not concelebrating.”

The lector is described as being in the sanctuary from the entrance procession, to the procession at the end of Mass. (Not just when reading.)
“195. Upon reaching the altar, the lector makes a profound bow with the others. If he is carrying the Book of the Gospels, he approaches the altar and places the Book of the Gospels upon it. Then the lector takes his own place in the sanctuary with the other ministers.”
“169. Then, as a rule, the priest venerates the altar with a kiss and, after making a profound bow with the lay ministers, departs with them.”

 

[dixieagle]

For twenty years now, our pastor has allowed anyone who wishes to gather around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer. This usually means that numerous unruly small children RUN up to the altar. They often wave to their parents, wiggle around, jump up and down, show their panties…you name it. Their parents are utterly clueless as to how inappropriate and disrespectful this is. We have a new bishop, and I hope to heaven he puts a stop to this.

 

[benedictgal]

For twenty years now, our pastor has allowed anyone who wishes to gather around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer. This usually means that numerous unruly small children RUN up to the altar. They often wave to their parents, wiggle around, jump up and down, show their panties…you name it. Their parents are utterly clueless as to how inappropriate and disrespectful this is. We have a new bishop, and I hope to heaven he puts a stop to this.

In 1994, LifeTeen was ordered to stop this practice by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. While some people may not hold Adoremus to be a credible source, the online magazine is one of the few that strives to report the news accurately.

Life Teen’s Liturgical Reform
Life Teen, the Phoenix-based Catholic youth organization, announced in July that it will cease its idiosyncratic liturgical practices. Monsignor Dale Fushek, Life Teen’s founder and former Vicar General under Bishop Thomas O’Brien, sent a letter July 2, saying that he confirms “our adherence to the new GIRM, and as always, our obedience to our own local Bishops”.

The letter asked that “all parishes that implement the LIFE TEEN model” make these changes. The teens will no longer surround the altar during the Eucharistic prayer; they will cease saying, “The Mass never ends, it must be lived”, at the end of Mass; the rock-party atmosphere before Mass will be toned down to “make sure there is a period of silence to begin the liturgical celebration”; and they will “make sure the music does not in any way detract from the action at the altar, ambo or chair”.

“I am sure these issues will be hard on some parishes and teens”, Monsignor Fushek wrote. His letter said that Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmsted met in Rome with Cardinal Francis Arinze, of the Congregation for Divine Worship, about Life Teen.

This is just a bad, bad practice that needs to go away.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Priests do not need to be concelebrating. From the GIRM:
“310. … Likewise, seats should be arranged in the sanctuary for concelebrating priests as well as for priests who are present for the celebration in choir dress but who are not concelebrating.”

The lector is described as being in the sanctuary from the entrance procession, to the procession at the end of Mass. (Not just when reading.)
“195. Upon reaching the altar, the lector makes a profound bow with the others. If he is carrying the Book of the Gospels, he approaches the altar and places the Book of the Gospels upon it. Then the lector takes his own place in the sanctuary with the other ministers.”
“169. Then, as a rule, the priest venerates the altar with a kiss and, after making a profound bow with the lay ministers, departs with them.”

“…unless they need to be there …” priests can also function as deacons and MC’s and other liturgical functions without concelebrating.

 

[Cranch]

For twenty years now, our pastor has allowed anyone who wishes to gather around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer. This usually means that numerous unruly small children RUN up to the altar. They often wave to their parents, wiggle around, jump up and down, show their panties…you name it. Their parents are utterly clueless as to how inappropriate and disrespectful this is. We have a new bishop, and I hope to heaven he puts a stop to this.

Just curious how it is a priest has been allowed to spend twenty years at the same parish. I am used to seeing them transferred in and out, usually in much less time.

 

[dixieagle]

Just curious how it is a priest has been allowed to spend twenty years at the same parish. I am used to seeing them transferred in and out, usually in much less time.

Interesting, isn’t it? The pastor happens to be from a very prominent local Catholic family, and chairs the committee that “advises” the bishop on clergy changes. He has been on a building spree for years, which is apparently one of the factors that has kept him there. It is a very large, successful parish.

Makes one wonder…

 

[Edward62]

Ugh, no, that’s not ok. I’ve seen priests do it in my diocese too (though not the bishop) and it is just plain tacky. For one, it does not show the proper respect for the Eucharist and for the altar. And for another, having everyone crowded about like – pardon me, pigs at a trough – means a lot of noise and shoving and general “git-er-done” type Massing, not the quiet reverence and awe we should demonstrate for the body and blood of our Lord Himself

Just curious how it is a priest has been allowed to spend twenty years at the same parish. I am used to seeing them transferred in and out, usually in much less time.

Depending on where you live and how many priests are in your diocese, it’s not such an unusual thing. The pastor at my home parish has been there for twenty-two years, and most of the time he’s been the only priest there. No deacons, even. It’s just that the diocese is really strapped for priests, and Fr. Edwards is particularly good for that parish. (It’s a very aged population, and while there were some young families when I was a little kid, most have moved away. Fr. Edwards has said his ministry is particularly to the elderly and deceased; I agree that he has a special talent among those in the later stages of life.)

 

[Sarabande]

Just curious how it is a priest has been allowed to spend twenty years at the same parish. I am used to seeing them transferred in and out, usually in much less time.

I thought once you become a pastor, you get to stay in that one parish for as long as needed or wanted. That is what usually happens to the pastors in my diocese. The non-pastors, on the other hand, I see them get transferred every five years or so.

In response to the OP, I agree with the others. Gathering around the altar for communion I believe is not permitted. When I was a teen back in the 90s, the priest who headed LifeTeen used to have all the teenagers do that during the mass. We had no idea it wasn’t allowed back then. He was transferred within only a couple years of joining that parish as I later learned that apparently many of the parishioners did not like him although at first they did (he was young, attractive and charming so the older women were falling all over themselves - kind of gross to a teen). I saw him years later when he became pastor at a church I worked at, and he didn’t do it for his regular masses then, thank goodness, but the older ladies were still falling over themselves at first. About a year in the charm was fading again. (I quit about 4 months after he came to get married and because the parish just wasn’t the same.) I no longer know what is going on there, but the school has been closed and he threw out the few sisters living in the convent next door, along with other changes since he came which was very hurtful to the parish.

 

[new_User1357246]

Would it make any difference if I said that the area that we stand is pretty much the same area that the monks stand in for the entirety of their masses and their daily prayers (since we dont all fit there people must be closer to the altar)? The big difference that I see is that we move for communion whereas they would be there the whole time.

 

[MarieVeronica]

For twenty years now, our pastor has allowed anyone who wishes to gather around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer. This usually means that numerous unruly small children RUN up to the altar. They often wave to their parents, wiggle around, jump up and down, show their panties…you name it. Their parents are utterly clueless as to how inappropriate and disrespectful this is. We have a new bishop, and I hope to heaven he puts a stop to this.

When I was still living in California, I remember the same thing at my old parish. The priest would invite all the kids up to the altar, and they would stand… literally at his elbows, as the Consecration was taking place.

I used to wonder if this was “ok” or not. Thankfully, most of the kids were very well behaved. But still, something about it… just didn’t seem right to me.

 

[iasd1234]

At Life Teen masses, the Teens use to gather around the altar during the consecration.

THIS IS NOT ALLOWED!! And it should have been changed in any and all parishes 2-3 years ago. All Life Teen parishes that were doing that got called on the carpet for it and shouldn’t be doing it anymore.

I attend the church where Life Teen started. The Teens come up but they are IN THE AREA AT THE BASE OF THE STAIRS IN FRONT OF THE ALTAR AREA. That is allowed. that’s where the kneelers are put for couples getting married in the church during a wedding ceremony. The teens KNEEL during the consecretion portion of Mass.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Are the people there for communion only or do they move into that area before the consecration? Is that area actually within the sanctuary? It sounds as though it may not be within the sanctuary by the way you describe it since you say it is where the monks stand for the mass and their prayers which wouldn’t usually be within the sanctuary.

 

[iasd1234]

This is NOT during Communion. It’s before that. Before the “Our Father” is said.

 

[FrDavid96]

My church does this, but claims that it is okay since nobody is on the same level as the altar. That is, the altar is on a small podium 6 inches above the rest of that part of the church, then, starting at about 6 feet from the altar there are several other raised levels that people stand on at this time.

Is this alright for them to do?

Even the bishop has celebrated mass there in this way (if I recall correctly…)

It is not, very strictly speaking, forbidden; provided that the congregation does not outright enter the sanctuary.

Here’s an example. Say we have a small, daily Mass celebrated according to the 1962 Missal (the traditional Latin Mass), attended by 6 people. When it comes time for Communion, all 6 of them would approach the altar rail and kneel to receive Communion. They would all be doing this at the same time. No one would say that this is improper.

If the practice detracts from the solemnity and dignity of the Mass, then it would certainly be improper. Also, it all depends upon just what is defined as “the Sanctuary”. Liturgical law defines what the Sanctuary is, but for an individual church building, it would be up to the bishop to actually define the “line” that marks it (proper church architecture makes such a line obvious, but in modern churches, it’s not that simple–although it should be so).

It seems to me that the local bishop has determined that the place where the faithful are standing at that moment is not part of the sanctuary.

 

[PKinsale]

The congregation should stay in the pews until it is time to go forward to receive Communion. There is no reason for them to come closer to the altar, no matter what side of the often-imaginary sanctuary border they are.

Likewise, I abhor the opposite … the priest presider who feels he should sit with the congregation for the readings. One church I know has the “presider’s chair” among the first row of pews.

 

[palmas85]

At Life Teen masses, the Teens use to gather around the altar during the consecration.

THIS IS NOT ALLOWED!! And it should have been changed in any and all parishes 2-3 years ago. All Life Teen parishes that were doing that got called on the carpet for it and shouldn’t be doing it anymore.

I attend the church where Life Teen started. The Teens come up but they are IN THE AREA AT THE BASE OF THE STAIRS IN FRONT OF THE ALTAR AREA. That is allowed. that’s where the kneelers are put for couples getting married in the church during a wedding ceremony. The teens KNEEL during the consecretion portion of Mass.

Why?

 

[iasd1234]

Why?

Why what?