Gathering around the altar...from Ask the Apol. forum

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Karl,

If you ever have an opportunity, please visit the Newman Ctr at the University of Illinois in Champaign. St. Jon’s is like a retreat center compared to parish life. And much of what you describe below happens there.

Karl Keating said:
1. I’m not going the read the “vision” document you cite–I have more urgent things not to do.
  1. Young people like to be countercultural. Instead of trying to placate them by intruding secular elements into the Mass, why not challenge them by having them work on a Mass that incorporates more of the traditional elements than their parents have seen in a decade? This really would be countercultural!
Imagine a parish where teens and college-age youth are trained, over a period of weeks or months (whatever it takes) to sing traditional hymns with gusto and to use extensive chant …

Where they do the readings in a stately and modulated way …

Where they bring in the incense (lots of it!), processional candles, and the like …

Where they ring joyous altar bells joyously …

Where they dress up (prom-quality, but modest) instead of down …

Where they bow deeply before the altar and genuflect gracefully before the tabernacle …

Where it looks as though their every motion were choreographed by Agnes De Mille …

Where those who are altar servers are in albs with black shoes instead of tennis shoes poking out at the bottom …

I think all this is possible. Years ago, when I visited Lincoln, NE, then-bishop Glennon Flavin invited me to attend the 10:00 p.m. weekday Mass at the University of Nebraska Newman Center. Well aware of the reputation of Newman Centers, I was not expecting to be edified.

Quite the contrary. That probably was the most reverent Mass I ever have attended, in terms of the reverence of the congregation. I was so impressed that I didn’t pay much attention to what was going on at the altar–I couldn’t believe how well the college students had been trained.

Something similar–and even more impressive–could be done at any parish, if there were a will to do so.
 
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karisue:
Karl,

If you ever have an opportunity, please visit the Newman Ctr at the University of Illinois in Champaign. St. Jon’s is like a retreat center compared to parish life. And much of what you describe below happens there.
It’s hilarious that you mention it right after Karl got done recalling his visit to a Newman Center, because my old haunt at UIUC popped in to my mind, too. It was because of the extremely orthodox - and therefore extremely organized and beautiful - Masses on Sunday nights at 9 P.M. (we were college kids, remember), that made me fall in love with the Church. If it weren’t for those beautiful nights, I may not’ve found my way in to Full Communion, and I might not be in formation for the priesthood. May God continue to guide Monsignor Swetland and those who make it happen there at the University of Illinois.

Go Illini! :clapping:
 
Karl Keating:
  1. Young people like to be countercultural. Instead of trying to placate them by intruding secular elements into the Mass, why not challenge them by having them work on a Mass that incorporates more of the traditional elements than their parents have seen in a decade? This really would be countercultural!
Imagine a parish where teens and college-age youth are trained, over a period of weeks or months (whatever it takes) to sing traditional hymns with gusto and to use extensive chant …

Where they do the readings in a stately and modulated way …

Where they bring in the incense (lots of it!), processional candles, and the like …

Where they ring joyous altar bells joyously …

Where they dress up (prom-quality, but modest) instead of down …

Where they bow deeply before the altar and genuflect gracefully before the tabernacle …

Where it looks as though their every motion were choreographed by Agnes De Mille …

Where those who are altar servers are in albs with black shoes instead of tennis shoes poking out at the bottom …
Amen, Amen. As a person that grew up in the Life Teen program at the founding parish, I think it is unfortunate that the teens are not receiving this formation.

The thing that bothered me at the Life Teen Masses that I have attended, is that there was no resemblance of reverance and acknowlegement that we were at Calvary with our Lord.

Another thing that bothers me is that the tabernacles have been removed from the Church. For crying out loud people, Jesus belongs in the Church. Have we become so self centered that we remove from the Church Our Lord Jesus Christ, so that we can accomodate our own little inventions. I think that there needs to be a serious reflection of priorities.

We are catering to our teens, and in the meantime we are watering down their faith. Teens urge for the sacred and they are not receiving it. Rather all they are receiving is an hydrenaline pumping lackluster liturgy. What happens after that hydrenaline runs empty. I’ll tell you what happens, they leave the Church, they go off track.

to be continued
 
That is what happened to me. Then God knocked me off my horse. I started going to a different parish where there is reverence, where there is perpetual adoration, and where I am taught the faith in all of its splendor.

At the parish I go to the youth ministry goes like this. The youth program goes to Mass at 6pm, the Mass is the same as all of the other Masses. There is a reverence and there is great catechesis in the homilies. The traditional songs are sung traditionally, such as the Kyrie Eleison, Agnus Dei, Sanctus, etc., and there are some toned down contemporary christian music also. Then they meet together after Mass for social events or teachings.

Then on Wednesday nights they have Dead Theologian Society night. These nights are awesome. There is a person that teaches them about our rich faith, they do this by focusing on the writings of certain great people in our faith. For example, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, St. Faustina, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. John of the Cross, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John Chrystostom, Pope John Paul II, St. Alphonsus de Ligouri, on and on. This teaching lasts for 45 minutes. Then they have 30 minutes of silent adoration.

That is the ultimate youth ministry, as far as I’m concerned.
 
Why do you bow before the altar yet not genuflect?
Interesting question. Our Church has a side Chapel where the tabernacle is located. So I never genuflect when I enter Church, either. In fact, our Priest discourages genuflection to those “in the habit” as a teaching instruction on what the purpose of the genuflection is for. However, I always bow to the altar as well. So does our Priest, and others. It si still the altar on which our Lord is presented, and I guess that’s why I have done it.

Is it inappropriate to bow towards the altar when the tabernacle is not in the Sanctuary? The Priest at the beginning of Mass, with the altar boys, etc. all do. So do the lectors as they approach.

Why would an act of veneration towards the altar be any different than an act of veneration towards other holy objects, understanding what these objects represent?
 
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