Gatherings hosted by engaged couple

[Fidelia]

my boyfriend’s sister and her fiance live together. the wedding is in october, they moved in together in january. They held a new year’s party at his (the fiance’s) parents house, where he used to live, because their apartment wasn’t ready yet. so, obviously, if it was, they would have had it there. I didn’t want to go for that reason, but went because my boyfriend wanted to. I did not like being there, i did not like hearing her talk ab out the bed they bought. for goodness’ sake, I wouldn’t want to hear about their bed even if they were married! I have expressed to my boyfriend i do not want to go to anything at their place until after they are married. I have no interest or desire to be in a residence like that. THis saturday they are hosting St. Patrick’s day, because ‘she wants to cook this year’ and i have no interest in going there, and my boyfriend knows that. Am I right or wrong to feel that way? What do you think?

 

[dylanschrader]

It’s perfectly normal to feel uncomfortable in that situation. You know what is right and don’t want to approve of what is wrong, but you can’t control what other people do, and there is some pressure on you because of the other people involved.

 

[Avor]

They’re jumping the gun a little, well at least they’re getting married eventualy. Better then some couples these days I suppose.

But as much as you feel uncomfortable, it’s your boyfriend’s family. You cannot go if you wish, just make sure you don’t make him feel guilty for it.

 

[1ke]

You’ve stated your position, and you are not obligated to go.

My question to you is what is your boyfriend’s opinion on this? And, if it’s different from yours, then maybe you need to discuss that you are not on the same page values-wise.

 

[baltobetsy]

How serious are you with your boyfriend? Will you be discerning marriage any time soon? If there is a possibility that you will one day be related to these folks, you do not want to burn any bridges now, as it will affect your ability to influence them for good later.

Betsy

 

[Sr_Sally]

Two issues–one morals, one manners. You have a moral obligation not encourage people in their sin. To not turn a blind eye to it and pretend that what they are doing is fine.

But manners says that you have no compulsion over your boyfriend (since he is not your husband or even fiance). If he chooses to attend his sister’s parties, you can’t stop him. But you don’t need to go with him. And you need an excuse that is different from “I won’t go to a sinner’s house”. Because in reality you are always in a sinner’s house when you go visiting (and when you stay home). You may not know about the sins of other friends (porn, anger, etc), but that’s not to say they aren’t happening.

Also, as somone else pointed out, if you expect that this boyfriend will be your husband, be careful of what you say about his sister and how you say it. You want to be in a position where his family is speaking to you after you are married!

 

[DallasCatholic]

Okay, maybe I’m blind but I did not read anywhere in the OP that the engaged couple were sexually active. If they are living a chaste life (which is possible, since some couples do this while waiting for a previous marriage to be anulled) then there is really no problem AFAIK. I guess you could make the arguement that they are tempting each other with a near occasion of sin…but again that is assuming facts not in evidence. I think it is very telling of our society that we automatically assume that if a man and woman are living together they must be having sex.

So, OP, if they are NOT living a chaste life then I think you have an opportunity to preach the Gospel through your example…and if necessary with words (with a nod to St. Francis). Depending on the relationships you have with the couple and with your boyfriend there may or may not be opportunities for dialogue. I think that you and your boyfriend need to come to a mutually agreed upon solution. He needs to understand the reasons and depth of your conviction and you need to understand his familial obligations. Perhaps, he should put in a “token” appearance while you stay at home?

 

[Fidelia]

Okay, maybe I’m blind but I did not read anywhere in the OP that the engaged couple were sexually active. If they are living a chaste life (which is possible, since some couples do this while waiting for a previous marriage to be anulled) then there is really no problem AFAIK. I guess you could make the arguement that they are tempting each other with a near occasion of sin…but again that is assuming facts not in evidence. I think it is very telling of our society that we automatically assume that if a man and woman are living together they must be having sex.

I agree, but i do not know how they are living. I know they are living together, and there was no reason why they both had to move in. And I do not want to be present for a couple playing house. I mean, she talked about the mattress they bought, for goodness sake (see OP). I like her very much, she is a very nice person. But I don’t really want to go into their residence while they are playing house and playing married couple by hosting a gathering.

 

[Fidelia]

You’ve stated your position, and you are not obligated to go.

My question to you is what is your boyfriend’s opinion on this? And, if it’s different from yours, then maybe you need to discuss that you are not on the same page values-wise.

My boyfriend sees absolutely no problem with what they are doing. We know we are on two different pages values-wise, and that is something I pray about. Not going into it all here. But I see what you mean, and am aware of it already.

 

[Fidelia]

How serious are you with your boyfriend? Will you be discerning marriage any time soon? If there is a possibility that you will one day be related to these folks, you do not want to burn any bridges now, as it will affect your ability to influence them for good later.

Betsy

That is true, I am hoping we will be able to have a future together, but as I said above, we have value-differences that we still need to address further. I know that if we do get married, it will be an opportunity to set the right example. And that he knows what I believe in and what I won’t do, and what other people do, even his sister, should have nothing to do with what we would do.

I am worried about the ‘burning bridges’ idea, as you put it. But I am not just turning up my nose at loose morals, I am not wanting to go someplace where I know I will feel unsettled. My best friend from high school lives upstate with her boyfriend, and were she to invite me over there, i wouldn’t feel i wanted to go there either. It’s nothing personal towards my bf’s sister.

 

[1ke]

My boyfriend sees absolutely no problem with what they are doing. We know we are on two different pages values-wise, and that is something I pray about. Not going into it all here. But I see what you mean, and am aware of it already.

Well, that’s your answer. It’s a square peg and round hole situation. I advise you to focus more on how you and your BF differ in your values and whether or not you should continue in this relationship.

 

[Fidelia]

Well, that’s your answer. It’s a square peg and round hole situation. I advise you to focus more on how you and your BF differ in your values and whether or not you should continue in this relationship.

I am. I pray about it, and talk to my priest about it. My boyfriend knows how I feel. My question though, was should I get over my reservations and go to this couple’s home, or do I legitimately feel uneasy about going there?

 

[DallasCatholic]

I am. I pray about it, and talk to my priest about it. My boyfriend knows how I feel. My question though, was should I get over my reservations and go to this couple’s home, or do I legitimately feel uneasy about going there?

FWIW, I would say that if you know the couple is engaging in pre-marital sex then you have a legitimate reservation. Otherwise I think you may be using this as a device to force a confrontation with your BF…and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Fidelia]

1FWIW, 2I would say that if you know the couple is engaging in pre-marital sex then you have a legitimate reservation. 3Otherwise I think you may be using this as a device to force a confrontation with your BF…and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Hmmm.
1I can’t figure out what FWIW means.
2I do not know how they are living, I know they are very likely sharing a bedroom. But even then sex or not, I don’t know. But there is also the fact that there was no necessity for both of them to move into the home at once at such an early date. He could have moved in and she could have stayed home until married. And, to host a gathering like that, presenting themselves as married, when they aren’t yet, there is no reason for that. It is all ridiculous.
3Subconsciously, you mean? I don’t know. It is an oportunity to make sure he knows that he should not be look at them as any kind of good example of a possible future for us which yes, I have been taking advantage of. But my not wanting to go there is not to ‘show’ him anything. It is my comfort I am thinking of when i don’t want to go there.

 

[DallasCatholic]

Hmmm.
1I can’t figure out what FWIW means.
2I do not know how they are living, I know they are very likely sharing a bedroom. But even then sex or not, I don’t know. But there is also the fact that there was no necessity for both of them to move into the home at once at such an early date. He could have moved in and she could have stayed home until married. And, to host a gathering like that, presenting themselves as married, when they aren’t yet, there is no reason for that. It is all ridiculous.
B]Subconsciously, you mean? I don’t know. It is an oportunity to make sure he knows that he should not be look at them as any kind of good example of a possible future for us which yes, I have been taking advantage of. But my not wanting to go there is not to ‘show’ him anything. It is my comfort I am thinking of when i don’t want to go there.

FWIW (For What It’s Worth)

 

[Fidelia]

FWIW (For What It’s Worth)

Ah! I was trying to think of all these phrases. lol.

 

[otjm]

There is an automatic presumption that if one goes to the party, one is going to be seen as endorsing their lifestyle; but since so much of society sees no problem in their lifestyle, that same part of society will not see you as endorsing their living in sin. It is a non issue to them. So there is serious doubt as to whether or not you are scandalizing anyone.

The bigger issue may be that you want nothing to do with them. Suppose, for the moment, that you get married to this boyfriend with the “sinning” relative (I put sinning in quotes - see below). Then, suppose that this couple conceives and decides they won’t have the child, and choose to abort; and assume they subsequently decide to marry. Will you not see them because they aborted?

One of the biggest burdens many women carry is the decision to abort; many carry the issue for years; the suicide rate is noticeably higher; so are a myriad of mental health issues - depression to name just one.

Are you going to stand in judgement of them after all of that and not go over to see them? And if you are, and will not go, of what help will you be to her if and when she realizes the enormity of what she has done?

And assume that abortion doesn’t enter into the issue. Let’s say it just goes to their living together. What happens if she feels at some point that she has made the wrong choice; will she see you as someone she can trurn to, or will she see you as that judgemental so and so who was too good to be around her and sttod in self-righteous judgement of her?

Christ never condoned sin. However, one of the charges made by the Pharisees was that He “ate with sinners”. Are you good enough to model Christ, and be with them, or are you too good to go over there? And if you go over there, are you going to preach with words at them, or preach with example and love?

You and I can agree that living together is objectively sinful. However, many people were 1) never taught that and 2) don’t believe anything is wrong with it whatsoever. One of the elements of sin is that one needs to know that the action is sinful; if they don’t, then you seem to be standing in judgement of not just their behavior, but of their moral guilt. You might consider that for a bit.

I agree with the previous poster who said that you will always be among sinners; you will not necessarily know what their sin is, since it may not be as obvious as this. Somewhere you are going to have to learn how to relate to those sinners - just as Christ did.

 

[jmcrae]

Christ ate with sinners in order to preach to them and convert them away from their sinful ways.

Are you suggesting that the OP use the gathering as a preaching opportunity?

Otherwise, I see no reason for her to be required to attend.

 

[otjm]

Christ ate with sinners in order to preach to them and convert them away from their sinful ways.

Are you suggesting that the OP use the gathering as a preaching opportunity?

Otherwise, I see no reason for her to be required to attend.

I dont believe I suggested she was required to attend. However, if she is seriously interested in the boy she is dating, she will fast set herself up for intra family issues if she continues to avoid his relatives. It is always possible to have “another engagement”, but that plays out about so long and then it becomes transparent.

Christ ate with others; I don’t see much preaching to them. Teaching maybe; preaching? Don’t see it. Maybe to the Pharisees, most of whom he did not eat with.

We are all too concerned with telling others how they should behave. I call that preaching. Most people resent being preached to; most people who are open to trying to figure out why doing the same thing over and over is not giving them a different result are open to discussing it. Discussion of it is generally not a blunt “You are wrong and you are going to hell if you don’t change”.

I am all for helping others to turn from sin and live the Gospel. I have found that most of the time, indirection works much better than the direct approach. I can be extremely blunt if I think it will do some good, but most of the time bluntness just drives people further in the direction they are already going.

You want bluntness? OK, here goes. Maybe the OP needs to take a really long look at her boyfriend; if he doesn’t see anything wrong with it, maybe the whole issue will resolve itself by finding someone who is more attuned to her sense of morality (which is, for the sake here, correct). If she is uncomfortable with his relatives, what makes her think anything is going to change, or that he is not of the same mind? And why would she expect him to think like her on related issues? ABC, just to name one?

So, in short, no, I am not suggesting that she preach to them. I am suggesting that responding in a judgemental fashion (which is how this will be seen by them) will not accomplish helping them to move out of an objectively sinful situation. I am suggesting that she live faithfully to the Gospel; that is, if someone asks her why she is not living wuith her boyfriend, she be available to answer it; and that the answer needs to be one they can understand. Jason Evert’s sources are a good resource for crafting that answer.

But I do suggest she look at the whole of the situation; their living together is simply a part of the iceberg that is sticking up above the water.

 

[jmcrae]

I dont believe I suggested she was required to attend. However, if she is seriously interested in the boy she is dating, she will fast set herself up for intra family issues if she continues to avoid his relatives. It is always possible to have “another engagement”, but that plays out about so long and then it becomes transparent.

True, good point.

Christ ate with others; I don’t see much preaching to them. Teaching maybe; preaching? Don’t see it. Maybe to the Pharisees, most of whom he did not eat with.

He never condoned their sins, either - and as I recall, the sinners he ate with were already repenting of their sins, at the time. I don’t recall any time where he socialized with people who were still in their sins, or who weren’t open to the idea of repenting.

This idea of “nice Jesus” keeping quiet in the corner and grinning at everyone while they congratulate themselves on their sins - I just don’t find it in the Bible at all.

You want bluntness? OK, here goes. Maybe the OP needs to take a really long look at her boyfriend; if he doesn’t see anything wrong with it, maybe the whole issue will resolve itself by finding someone who is more attuned to her sense of morality (which is, for the sake here, correct). If she is uncomfortable with his relatives, what makes her think anything is going to change, or that he is not of the same mind? And why would she expect him to think like her on related issues? ABC, just to name one?

Good points - those are definitely questions she needs to ask herself, and him.

In the meantime, if she doesn’t want to grin at these people and “be nice” while they flaunt their new bed, etc., I don’t think she should have to, and I really don’t think Jesus would require it of her.