Gave my dh an ultimatum

[qui_est_ce]

I’m going to disagree with you, Whatevergirl, men like that learned such disrespectful behavior from seeing their fathers treat their mothers this way. Of course, chances are good that the mother put up with that treatment, but as a result, they don’t value their mother and therefore don’t value their wife.

I definitely think you should look at how a man treats his mother for a clue on how he will treat you. EXH always complained about his mother, said she was crazy. But in front of her he was all nicey and went along with her. He didn’t even want me to meet her until the day before we got married. To be sure, they lived in another state, about 20 hours drive. It did seem odd, but now that you bring it up, it’s very telling. I’m going to talk to my daughter about this.

I’m also going to get the book, How not to Marry a Jerk

 

[dulcissima]

• You’d think that in a man’s mind, he would not want to repeat the cycle??? *

The really strange thing is that they HATE what happened in their childhoods, and don’t think that they are that way. They have no problems with anyone and are nice to everyone…except their target (which will usually be their spouse).

 

[JRKH]

I’m going to disagree with you, Whatevergirl, men like that learned such disrespectful behavior from seeing their fathers treat their mothers this way. Of course, chances are good that the mother put up with that treatment, but as a result, they don’t value their mother and therefore don’t value their wife.

This may be true of most, but not always. My Wifes first husband was abusive and it was mostly in reaction to how his mother treated his father she browbeat him and belittled him constantly. He was determined that, “no woman was ever going to do that to him”.
It’s even more interesting due to the fact that he was spoiled rotten by his mother. Anything he wanted or did was OK by her. He wound up hating her and all women.
Result? He demanded sex on the same day that she came home after delivering their forst child. He had multiple affairs with women during the marriage. Spent money irresponsibly etc etc etc.

So while the “classic” and “Common” case is that the on learns from the father, it isn’t always the case.

Peace
James

 

[dulcissima]

So while the “classic” and “Common” case is that the on learns from the father, it isn’t always the case.

Peace
James

That is very true.

 

[dulcissima]

Interestingly, I can’t quite figure out what happened with my ex’s childhood. My personal opinion is that I really like his dad and find his mother very difficult. I know that he had huge issues with his mom as a child and his dad was always away. His four sisters all (save one) ended up with controlling and abusive husbands, and he ended up being controlling and abusive. So, it would make you think they saw that was the way that men treat their wives. The only hint of it that I saw in his parents’ relationship was him saying that when his parents fought, his mom always took it out on the kids, but would still make dinner just for his dad or iron his dad’s shirts but not do laundry for the kids.

 

[whatevergirl]

*I think if we’re honest, no one has a perfect family. But, children tend to absorb what they see growing up, like a sponge. If they soak up good things, they squeeze those good things out on their future loved ones. If they see bad things, the odds of squeezing out bad things onto others is pretty high. It’s fair to say I think, that what a child soaks in on a daily basis growing up, is what he/she will squeeze out onto others.

I don’t know if anyone read the book, A Child Called It, but the author grew up to be a wonderful dad, and a solid husband. Never abused his wife. So…somewhere along the lines, he broke the cycle of abuse that he himself endured, growing up. *

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I definitely think you should look at how a man treats his mother for a clue on how he will treat you. EXH always complained about his mother, said she was crazy. But in front of her he was all nicey and went along with her. He didn’t even want me to meet her until the day before we got married. To be sure, they lived in another state, about 20 hours drive. It did seem odd, but now that you bring it up, it’s very telling. I’m going to talk to my daughter about this.

Hahaha. Mine didn’t tell me I lived in the same town as his mom till we knew each other 5 months. He didn’t tell me he lived with her during that time. And he didn’t tell me she paid all his bills (I just found that out 20 years later.) I married him thinking he was a self-sufficient young man, not a parasite who pocketed his whole paycheck and didn’t contribute to his own support.

I didn’t meet her till a week before he proposed. It’s like he didn’t want us exchanging information.

Dulcissima, she still won’t admit she raised him to be like this. When I met her she said he raised himself. He was the perfect son. They were so close. Blah blah blah. Underneath he became a seething cauldron of resentment over not growing up with his father. He took it out on me. Eventually he made sure she paid for his injuries. In her head, she thinks she raised him to be a good man and respectful of women. Then she helped him try to destroy me (nice to do that to your grandchildren.) Eventually I was her only lifeline when he turned on her. Go figure.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hahaha. Mine didn’t tell me I lived in the same town as his mom till we knew each other 5 months. He didn’t tell me he lived with her during that time. And he didn’t tell me she paid all his bills (I just found that out 20 years later.) I married him thinking he was a self-sufficient young man, not a parasite who pocketed his whole paycheck and didn’t contribute to his own support. I didn’t meet her till a week before he proposed.** It’s like he didn’t want us exchanging information. **

That’s really good. I never thought of that. They think they are so unique :newidea: Yet they all follow the same playbook.

In her head, she thinks she raised him to be a good man and respectful of women. Then she helped him try to destroy me (nice to do that to your grandchildren.) Eventually I was her only lifeline when he turned on her. Go figure.

That’s exactly true! I get along fine with her now, and he has all but severed his relationship with her since he married wife #3, and she disapproved.

 

[joandarc2008]

OK I had a little intervention yesterday from the Church. He and I talked. I refuse to file papers. He is trying to make changes. I believe that. He knows in his heart that what he learned growing up is not right. He saw his father do it to his mother and he saw his mother’s narcissistic attitude after she got the upper hand. I see him trying to make changes. He has not gotten physical again since we got back together. I guess the bottom line is through all my frustration I have to trust the Lord. I also need to understand that my husband is mentally ill and that I need to learn better coping strategies for making corrections for thoughts and actions in a non-confrontational manner. These are the things that I can do. I am strong and infertile - maybe this is my task that the Lord has given me to help this man so that he may help others later in life. Just a thought. Either way I am going to school in the fall and will be going to stay with a friend during the week and home on the weekends.

On a different note- I noticed one thing in some of the discussions on psych websites on NPD. It says those men with NPD tend to go towards highly organized religions that they can attain social stature from their position in. Catholicism and Judaism were two mentioned in particular. So, do you think that our parishes our doing an adequate job screening these men out of volunteering from these types of “power” positions. ie my fil is a EHMC - I think in the beginning it was getting to go up in front of everyone - now he has almost flipped the script with my MIL and he is the humble one and does home visits where she is the one running around dictating everyone’s actions.

I have to say this to my MIL and FIL are raising my step daughter. I can understand why now and am thankful for it but I already see some beginning traits of NPD such as dictating morals to her own father, yelling at other kids that are strangers (which is dangerous in S Florida) about rules she perceives they are breaking, etc. I do believe it is a continous cycle. I have a chance to break it here with her father,.

Thank you all for your love and support I pray to the Lord that I can be as loving and supportive as some of you have been to me.

 

[whatevergirl]

I really pray that he doesn’t hurt you again, joan…praying that you won’t tolerate any more abuse, and that your husband really tries to make serious changes. Praying for your marriage to grow in strength, peace and holiness. :hug1:

 

[whatevergirl]

*I will say though joan, I’d be lying if I didn’t admit here that I’m very concerned for you. I know that many abusers, when they truly feel like they might be abandoned, they shape up, but for a short time. I pray that your marriage does improve, but I also pray that you take necessary steps to protect yourself, if it goes in a bad direction, again.

Praying for you, joan. *

 

[joandarc2008]

*I will say though joan, I’d be lying if I didn’t admit here that I’m very concerned for you. I know that many abusers, when they truly feel like they might be abandoned, they shape up, but for a short time. I pray that your marriage does improve, but I also pray that you take necessary steps to protect yourself, if it goes in a bad direction, again.

Praying for you, joan. *

I will, believe me. I am just trusting in something bigger than me. God.

 

[qui_est_ce]

*I will say though joan, I’d be lying if I didn’t admit here that I’m very concerned for you. I know that many abusers, when they truly feel like they might be abandoned, they shape up, but for a short time. I pray that your marriage does improve, **but I also pray that you take necessary steps to protect yourself, if it goes in a bad direction, again. ***

Praying for you, joan.

I second that thought. Sometimes trusting in the Lord means trusting He will help you OUT of the situation.

 

[joandarc2008]

As long as I believe he is trying I am not willing to leave. Even if I do leave I will NOT file papers. I just won’t do it. My resolve is that strong. I love him and I feel that the Lord is working for him just slowly and not on my time clock which is OK, the angels in Heaven rejoice more for the redemption of one sinner than they do for the righteous acts of 99 good. Or something like that from Luke.

 

[dulcissima]

I second that thought. Sometimes trusting in the Lord means trusting He will help you OUT of the situation.

Exactly. In fact, my priest told me that the graces that are present to help a sacramental marriage would help me get OUT of my marriage, since I was the only one who had gone into it with the right intentions. That’s something to really think about.

And Joan, you should not be spending the rest of your life walking on egg shells trying to not set him off. That is an unhealthy situation and one that should not persist. No matter how good you get at it, it is never good enough.

 

[whatevergirl]

OK I had a little intervention yesterday from the Church. He and I talked. I refuse to file papers. He is trying to make changes. I believe that. He knows in his heart that what he learned growing up is not right. He saw his father do it to his mother and he saw his mother’s narcissistic attitude after she got the upper hand. I see him trying to make changes. He has not gotten physical again since we got back together. I guess the bottom line is through all my frustration I have to trust the Lord. I also need to understand that my husband is mentally ill and that I need to learn better coping strategies for making corrections for thoughts and actions in a non-confrontational manner. These are the things that I can do. I am strong and infertile - maybe this is my task that the Lord has given me to help this man so that he may help others later in life. Just a thought. Either way I am going to school in the fall and will be going to stay with a friend during the week and home on the weekends.

On a different note- I noticed one thing in some of the discussions on psych websites on NPD. It says those men with NPD tend to go towards highly organized religions that they can attain social stature from their position in. Catholicism and Judaism were two mentioned in particular. So, do you think that our parishes our doing an adequate job screening these men out of volunteering from these types of “power” positions. ie my fil is a EHMC - I think in the beginning it was getting to go up in front of everyone - now he has almost flipped the script with my MIL and he is the humble one and does home visits where she is the one running around dictating everyone’s actions.

I have to say this to my MIL and FIL are raising my step daughter. I can understand why now and am thankful for it but I already see some beginning traits of NPD such as dictating morals to her own father, yelling at other kids that are strangers (which is dangerous in S Florida) about rules she perceives they are breaking, etc.** I do believe it is a continous cycle. I have a chance to break it here with her father,.**
Thank you all for your love and support I pray to the Lord that I can be as loving and supportive as some of you have been to me.

bolded for emphasis by me

*joan, I know you love your husband. I imagine he loves you. But, this sentence…see, YOU can’t break the cycle. Only your husband can. MANY women think that if they only could help their husband see that abuse isn’t the answer, then they will have broken the cycle. You can stay and be supportive, and go to counseling with him–but you cannot break the cycle. Only your husband can.

Many women (like me) are married to men where this isn’t even a THOUGHT. I don’t have to wonder if my husband is going to scream in my face, insult me, name call me, or worse…hit me. Our marriage is not perfect, no marriage is–but these are not even thoughts to me. They shouldn’t be thoughts for you, that is all we are saying here. You shouldn’t have to spend a lifetime hoping, praying and wishing for a man to treat you right.

Just know we care about you, and again, I truly hope he changes. But, I hope you don’t make excuses for him, IF he hurts you again. Take care. *

 

[qui_est_ce]

bolded for emphasis by me

• YOU can’t break the cycle*. Only your husband can. MANY women think that if they only could help their husband see that abuse isn’t the answer, then they will have broken the cycle. You can stay and be supportive, and go to counseling with him–but you cannot break the cycle. Only your husband can.

Just know we care about you, and again, I truly hope he changes. But, I hope you don’t make excuses for him, IF he hurts you again. Take care.

This is what you need to get into your head Joan. Only HE CAN MAKE THE CHANGE. So far he has only responded, temporarily, whenever he felt you were truly going to leave.

It takes a lot of courage and resolve to leave an unhealthy situation. I bristle anytime someone says, “Yes, we went through a hard time. It would have been easier to get a divorce. I’m glad we persevered, because now our marriage is better than ever.”

They had a healthy marriage. They have NO IDEA how hard it is to leave a marriage and get a divorce. It is the hardest thing I have EVER been through, and I’ve been through some bad stuff (dad murdered by home invaders, mom beaten and choked, left for dead). I won’t go on.

 

[joandarc2008]

I thank you all - and believe me your words don’t go unheeded. I do believe that he is trying to break the cycle as well. I do think that this takes time. In some areas there is improvement. I also understand that the type of counseling is going to bring up things that are difficult and there may be backslides but he has not gotten physical since the first time I walked away and that is a good change for the better. I will not leave until I am convinced that he has no desire at all to keep working on that process. After all I did take him for sicker and in health. Right now he is sick and he needs me.

 

[JRKH]

I thank you all - and believe me your words don’t go unheeded. I do believe that he is trying to break the cycle as well. I do think that this takes time. In some areas there is improvement. I also understand that the type of counseling is going to bring up things that are difficult and there may be backslides but he has not gotten physical since the first time I walked away and that is a good change for the better. I will not leave until I am convinced that he has no desire at all to keep working on that process. After all I did take him for sicker and in health. Right now he is sick and he needs me.

I ask you to consider this as well. It could well be that the greatest help you could be to him is to leave. Perhaps not divorce right away, but seperation. This is the one way that he will know that you are serious AND it will prevent any possibility of your becoming pregnant by him, which could well be a disaster.

Yes he is sick, and He could also use this to prey upon you and your good heart and sympathies.

Peace
James

 

[SamH]

Well, he basically told me that he didn’t have any problems - I’m the problem and I just don’t have the guts to leave.

I guess you were right.