Gay agenda indoctrinating young children

[Jennifer123]

Jennifer123;3750750:

LCMS_No_More;3749732:

Mindreader, eh? You’re telling me that I actively chose to be attracted to members of the same sex? I’m talking about the attraction, not acting out on it, which is different, as the CHURCH teaches.

Not you per say - but do YOU read the mind of every homosexual? IT happens - to think otherwise is naive at best, again, IMHO.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

LCMS_No_More;3751886:

Jennifer123;3750750:

Not you per say - but do YOU read the mind of every homosexual? IT happens - to think otherwise is naive at best, again, IMHO.

Considering I have actual experience, every homasexial I’ve spoken to says the same thing (they didn’t choose, they discovered their SSA) and you have only your fear-based speculation, I think it would be wise to go based on actual experience and not fear.

 

[Daddums]

Sure. Yet, most people should know that a person’s “being” is not defined solely by their sexuality. That’s why I said that if someone thinks my sexuality is my entire being simply because I said I was homosexual, that is their problem to deal with, not mine. The only time I bring up my own sexuality is if we’re talking about sexuality. That’s the only time it’s necessary. I’ve tried to be clear, anyways.

That’s unfortunate, because your sexuality truly is special. And, regardless of whether or not you identify it, you still have one.

Exactly. Because your sexuality isn’t somehow separated from who you are. You can say, “I’m male” and most people will assume you are heterosexual. I can say, “I’m male” and most people will…uh oh…do you see where the problem is arising? How can I have an honest discussion on sexuality without identifying mine? Seriously, how can I?

Ture. However, not thinking about your sexuality doesn’t make your sexuality go away.

You keep talking about sexuality and I don’t know what you mean by it. The closest concept I can come up with is sexual appetite with heterosexual sexuality being a sexual desire for the opposite sex and homosexuality being a sexual desire for the same sex. The problem is that if that’s what you mean by sexuality then nothing you said above makes any sense to me.

Daddums

 

[Fitswimmer]

LCMS_No_More;3751886:

Jennifer123;3750750:

Not you per say - but do YOU read the mind of every homosexual? IT happens - to think otherwise is naive at best, again, IMHO.

I would gently suggest that those of us who actually are homosexual probably know at least a few more other homosexuals than your average heterosexual Catholic -especially those who would participate on this board. Because we’re such a small minority, we do seek each other out, especially to discuss our difficulties and tell our stories. I have not in nearly 30 years met one homosexual who has chosen that lifestyle. Everyone I have met can tell you from their very earliest sexual awakenings that they knew they were different. They might not have known the right terms for what they were feeling, but they knew it wasn’t what their friends were talking about.

 

[9Choirs]

Jennifer123;3759027:

LCMS_No_More;3751886:

Considering I have actual experience, every homasexial I’ve spoken to says the same thing (they didn’t choose, they discovered their SSA) and you have only your fear-based speculation, I think it would be wise to go based on actual experience and not fear.

LCS No more,

Intersesting how you didn’t respond to my previous comments. I think fear may be preventing you from realising that although not every homosexual chooses his sexual orientation, some SSA in particular in young people are formed through through ones environment, and there are many people with SSA I’ve met who will openly declare that. Seeing as you’re 36 (from looking at your profile) you are far removed from the younger generation so maybe it is ignorance about the very vulnerable state of youngsters today which prevents you from opening your eyes to what is truly happening.

Your personal experience pertains to you only and not every one else and deep down I think you know that.

You still have not given an explanation for the numerous young women today who will experiment with other women but are found in heterosexual relationships in their later years. I have not also heard an explanation for the studies that reveal about one third of homosexual men have been abused in their childhood. Now such studies do not conclude that every homosexual man has been sexually abused, but that a substantial number have been. Now are such men who have been abused ‘born with SSA’ or did it develop in their early years due to the trauma they suffered?

East is West has spoken about his same sex attraction and is very firm on his stance that he was not ‘born that way’ but of course you discount members such as him because his experiences destroys the lies you’ve taught yourself to digest.

Here is East is West’s testimony:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3441695&postcount=19

“Just because he was different, just because he may have been predisposed to homosexuality, does not mean that he was born homosexual. Perhaps he was molested when he was younger. Perhaps his sensitive nature caused him to be or feel removed from the “normal” male population and, thus, he developed an attraction to this mystical world of the unknown male.

I can tell you as a man who is gay that I was NOT born this way. I was always a bit different myself. I was not into sports, and was definitely a “nice” boy. This caused me to feel separated form other guys and so it was easier to be friends with girls than it was with more aggressive males. This caused me to feel an outsider and to feel left out from the male world. When puberty hit my feeling of outsiderness developed into sexual attraction. But this does not mean I was born this way. It developed. My ex-boyfriend agrees. His gay brother agrees. No one is born gay.

However, even if my some mutation of genes, being born gay does not mean that we should encourage it because it is a psychologically unhealthy way to live one’s life. I highly suggest reading the book “The Battle for Normality” for anyone who believes in the childish non-sense that homosexuality is normal.”

So here you go. Here’s one person with SSA who isn’t ‘saying the same thing’. Will you now open your mind?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

LCMS_No_More;3759037:

Jennifer123;3759027:

LCS No more,

Intersesting how you didn’t respond to my previous comments. I think fear may be preventing you

from realising that although not every homosexual chooses his sexual orientation, some SSA in particular in young people are formed through through ones environment, and there are many people with SSA I’ve met who will openly declare that. Seeing as you’re 36 (from looking at your profile) you are far removed from the younger generation so maybe it is ignorance about the very vulnerable state of youngsters today which prevents you from opening your eyes to what is truly happening.

Actually, I’m not that removed from the younger generation as I share some interests with some in my area (Disneyland).

Your personal experience pertains to you only and not every one else and deep down I think you know that.

Ad hominem.

You still have not given an explanation for the numerous young women today who will experiment with other women but are found in heterosexual relationships in their later years.

I think the key word there is “experiment.”

I have not also heard an explanation for the studies that reveal about one third of homosexual men have been abused in their childhood. Now such studies do not conclude that every

homosexual man has been sexually abused, but that a substantial number have been. Now are such men who have been abused ‘born with SSA’ or did it develop in their early years due to the trauma they suffered?

Kindly refrain from putting words into my mouth. It’s unsanitary.

I never, ever said, “I was born this way.” I don’t buy that hypothesis, either. What I said is that one doesn’t CHOOSE to have a same sex attraction (or an other sex attraction). That’s a different thing altogether.

East is West has spoken about his same sex attraction and is very firm on his stance that he was not ‘born that way’ but of course you discount members such as him because his experiences destroys the lies you’ve taught yourself to digest.

Here is East is West’s testimony:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3441695&postcount=19

“Just because he was different, just because he may have been predisposed to homosexuality, does not mean that he was born homosexual. Perhaps he was molested when he was younger. Perhaps his sensitive nature caused him to be or feel removed from the “normal” male population and, thus, he developed an attraction to this mystical world of the unknown male.

I can tell you as a man who is gay that I was NOT born this way. I was always a bit different myself. I was not into sports, and was definitely a “nice” boy. This caused me to feel separated form other guys and so it was easier to be friends with girls than it was with more aggressive males. This caused me to feel an outsider and to feel left out from the male world. When puberty hit my feeling of outsiderness developed into sexual attraction. But this does not mean I was born this way. It developed. My ex-boyfriend agrees. His gay brother agrees. No one is born gay.

However, even if my some mutation of genes, being born gay does not mean that we should encourage it because it is a psychologically unhealthy way to live one’s life. I highly suggest reading the book “The Battle for Normality” for anyone who believes in the childish non-sense that homosexuality is normal.”

So here you go. Here’s one person with SSA who isn’t ‘saying the same thing’. Will you now open your mind?

Why? You assumed facts not in evidence. Do you know what happens when people assume? Well, you just did it.

 

[Annn]

9Choirs, have you ever considered the “spectrum” theory, whereby women you say are “experimenting” yet end up in “straight” relationships always have some amount of attraction to people of the same gender, yet end up settling down with someone of the opposite sex? There are many people I know, both male and female, who are attracted to people of the same gender yet may very well end up marrying someone of the opposite sex and being quite happy. For me, this would never, ever be an option, but for some it definitely is.

 

[rlg94086]

9Choirs, have you ever considered the “spectrum” theory, whereby women you say are “experimenting” yet end up in “straight” relationships always have some amount of attraction to people of the same gender, yet end up settling down with someone of the opposite sex? There are many people I know, both male and female, who are attracted to people of the same gender yet may very well end up marrying someone of the opposite sex and being quite happy. For me, this would never, ever be an option, but for some it definitely is.

Hi Annn,

I know we have discussed this before, so you know we are in agreement. However, this is where the question of “being,” choice and identity come into play. When someone says they are “homosexual,” what does it mean exactly, in light of the spectrum theory? IMO, what they are basically saying is “I have strong homosexual desires, and I choose to identify myself as homosexual and/or live an active homosexual lifestyle.” While this may sound like semantics, this is why people can validly say that homosexuality is a “choice.” It isn’t the desires…it’s what you do with them.

Wherever someone lies on the spectrum, they make a choice of what to do with those desires. For people on the ends (strongly homosexual or heterosexual), then the choice is probably pretty easy. For those in the middle range, some don’t make a choice either way and identify themselves as “bi-sexual;” some identify themselves as homosexual; some identify themselves as “heterosexual.” All of these are choices. This especially makes sense when you consider the transitory cases.

Now, according to the Catholic Church (and other major religions), the homosexual desires we have, regardless of strength, are “disordered desires” (i.e. the proper ordering of desires being heterosexual), so the choice of what to do with those desires is more limited from a moral standpoint. A Catholic with same-sex-attraction is still called to chastity, which means they can choose to live as a celibate or enter into a heterosexual relationship. I understand those aren’t easy choices for someone with strong same-sex desires. From a secular standpoint, anything goes. This is why we have tension. If the spectrum theory is accurate, then the programs in the OP may change the choices for some of those children. Since homosexual acts are considered grave sins, that would mean that these programs could lead some children to choose grave sin, rather than chastity.

BTW…as a side note, I don’t want people to think that this spectrum is evenly distributed, or a bell curve, etc. I think it is pretty clear that there are a lot more people on the “strongly heterosexual” end of the spectrum. What the distribution in the “middle” to “strongly homosexual” is like, I have no idea. Obviously, the relative strength of desires is very subjective.

 

[9Choirs]

9Choirs;3759954:

LCMS_No_More;3759037:

Actually, I’m not that removed from the younger generation as I share some interests with some in my area (Disneyland).

Firstly, you’re quoting me, 9Choirs and not Jennifer.

Disneyland? Don’t take this personally but most people move away from such entertainment when they enter their teens…

In addition, see your quote below:

Jennifer123;3759027:

LCMS_No_More;3751886:

Considering I have actual experience

, every homasexial I’ve spoken to says the same thing (they didn’t choose, they discovered their SSA) and you have only your fear-based speculation, I think it would be wise to go based on actual experience and not fear.

Seeing as you believe your SSA grants you leverage to comment on homosexuality, the same can be said about youth, which therefore gives my opinion greater credibility.

Ad hominem.

I beg to differ

I think the key word there is “experiment.”

My mistake. Perhaps I should have said: What about the numerous women who engage in same sex relationships and take on the ‘gay label’ only to reject such a label in their later years? In their younger years, they firmly declare themselves to be ‘lesbians’ but reject such a title as they mature and enter heterosexual relationships.

Kindly refrain from putting words into my mouth. It’s unsanitary.

You’ve misconstrued me placing quote marks as implying you said such words, however ‘born that way’ is very common language use by some Catholic homosexuals on this board.

I never, ever said, “I was born this way.” I don’t buy that hypothesis, either. What I said is that one doesn’t CHOOSE to have a same sex attraction (or an other sex attraction). That’s a different thing altogether

My argument is not on whether homosexuals choose their homosexuality but on whether the homosexual orientation is innate and immutable. Although I don’t believe this is the case for every individual homosexual, I don’t believe it is generally innate and immutable and, the experiences of East is West and the testimonies of others who’ve at one point in their life engaged in same sex relationships just reinforces this belief.

I also believe that most people on this board don’t believe that homosexuals ‘choose’ their sexuality, but too believe it is not innate and is most likely an attraction developed unconciously in ones early years. It is for this reason that many on this board believe that some of the propoganda being espoused by homosexual activists towards the young can cause some to unconsciously lean to this sexual orientation and take on the ‘gay identity’.

Such occurances have and continue happen to heterosexual young people who most likely would have opted for abstinence had not the ‘safe sex’ educators infiltrated schools causing such teenagers to lean to entertaining ideas of fornication and eventually slipping into lives of promiscuity.

What has happened to heterosexual teenagers serves as a lesson to the further damage that will be caused if homosexual activists persist in introducing these ideas to the young. Often what is deemed as ‘educating the young from avoiding sexual problems/confusion’ simply motivates young people to engage in these sexual activities and causes the confusion to begin with.

Why? You assumed facts not in evidence. Do you know what happens when people assume? Well, you just did it.

Perhaps you ought to reword this, but this time in coherent English. Also, try addressing the topic at hand and not finding recourse to (what I assume to be) strange humour. Doing so just reveals the weakness in your argument.

 

[rlg94086]

My argument is not on whether homosexuals choose their homosexuality but on whether the homosexual orientation is innate and immutable. Although I don’t believe this is the case for every individual homosexual, I don’t believe it is generally innate and immutable and, the experiences of East is West and the testimonies of others who’ve at one point in their life engaged in same sex relationships just reinforces this belief.

Hi 9Choirs,

Your well written post illustrated a need for further clarification on my whole “spectrum” theory. While I believe that the desires are on a spectrum, I also don’t believe that they are “innate and immutable.” Many of our desires can and do change over time.

 

[9Choirs]

9Choirs, have you ever considered the “spectrum” theory, whereby women you say are “experimenting” yet end up in “straight” relationships always have some amount of attraction to people of the same gender, yet end up settling down with someone of the opposite sex? There are many people I know, both male and female, who are attracted to people of the same gender yet may very well end up marrying someone of the opposite sex and being quite happy. For me, this would never, ever be an option, but for some it definitely is.

Ann,

Yes I have considered the spectrum theory; however the general consensus amongst many homosexuals I’ve encountered is that this is a get out clause for people to resist taking on the ‘gay’ title. I’m sure its not new to you that there are many homosexuals who will firmly declare that there is no such thing as bisexuality and anyone declaring themselves to be bisexual is only ‘half way out the closet’.

My personal opinion which is formed from what such women who I’m describing have revealed, is that such people were heterosexual to begin with but unconsciously or consciously chose to engage in same sexual relationships for personal pleasure or ‘enlightenment’.

Some were swayed by the disingenuous messages that society promotes, and whilst in their youth, unconsciously bought into the lie that if one experiences same sex attracion they are gay de facto, instead of investigating the true source of this attraction, which were sometimes traumas or poor family relationships. Women of this variety who have at one time engaged in same sex relationships feel short changed and deceived, and it is for them that I post on this topic. Such women will firmly state that despite their same sex experiences, they have no longer have no same sex attraction, as they were never gay to begin with (ergo the term ‘ex gay’ is also exluded) but that part of their life was simply a phase born out of their confusing adolescence and the lies society endorsed.

 

[Jennifer123]

Jennifer123;3759027:

LCMS_No_More;3751886:

I would gently suggest that those of us who actually are homosexual probably know at least a few more other homosexuals than your average heterosexual Catholic -especially those who would participate on this board. Because we’re such a small minority, we do seek each other out, especially to discuss our difficulties and tell our stories. I have not in nearly 30 years met one homosexual who has chosen that lifestyle. Everyone I have met can tell you from their very earliest sexual awakenings that they knew they were different. They might not have known the right terms for what they were feeling, but they knew it wasn’t what their friends were talking about.

I am not making any assumptions, nor am I claiming to know more than any practicing homosexual, I am only going on the facts surrounding current sexual education presented to our children and making logical deductions, plus from what I’ve seen myself through the media.
Yes, most people with SSA would say they aren’t making a choice, and I have claimed as much earlier in the thread. But to say absolutely no one has made a conscious choice to practice homosexuality is absurd.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Fitswimmer;3759436:

Jennifer123;3759027:

I am not making any assumptions, nor am I claiming to know more than any practicing homosexual, I am only going on the facts surrounding current sexual education presented to our children and making logical deductions, plus from what I’ve seen myself through the media.
Yes, most people with SSA would say they aren’t making a choice, and I have claimed as much earlier in the thread. But to say absolutely no one has made a conscious choice to practice homosexuality is absurd.

I agree that the “choice to practice homosexuality” is a choice. We all have the opportunity to choose whether or not we engage in sexual activity, no matter if we are gay or straight.

However, I do not believe that the inclination to be attracted to the same gender is a choice, just as I don’t believe the inclination to be attracted to the opposite gender is a choice. In my experience that theory usually comes from parents who are terrified that one of their children might be gay. If being gay is a choice, or can be “caused” by experiences during childhood, then they can prevent their children from being gay. If being gay is something that people are born with, then there’s nothing these parents can do to stop it.