Gay clergy vote may split Lutheran denomination

[firstmode]

By Patrick Condon
Associated Press
August 17, 2009

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FRIDLEY, Minn. - – The Rev. Dave Glesne stood before the members of Redeemer Lutheran Church a few weeks ago and told them there might be some painful decisions in the near future.

Glesne is against letting people in same-sex relationships serve as pastors of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and he says his congregation is behind him. They’re worried this suburban Minneapolis church could find itself on the losing side as leaders of the nation’s largest Lutheran denomination vote on whether to take that step at their biennial national convention, which starts Monday in Minneapolis.

"Of course the question was asked: ‘What will we do, Pastor Dave, if this goes?’ " Glesne said. “The conversation we had left me no doubt that we will definitely have a discussion about leaving the ELCA.”

Avoiding such divisions was a main goal of a denominational task force that prepared recommendations for debate by the 1,045 voting members at the convention. One is a revision of ministry standards that would let individual congregations employ gay and lesbian people in committed relationships as clergy. The other is a broader statement on human sexuality, a 34-page document that tries to craft a theological framework for differing views on homosexuality – but which critics say would liberalize Evangelical Lutheran Church in America attitudes.

The rest of the article can be found at the link below:

chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-lutherans-gays-0816-08aug17,0,1178609.story

 

[Graubo3]

My prayers go out to my Lutheran brothers and sisters in Christ.

“When society tells you that you are crazy, you are doing something right.” Mother Angelica.

Peace, Graubo

 

[gcnuss]

My prayers go out to my Lutheran brothers and sisters in Christ.

Thank you for your prayers.

 

[firstmode]

Lutherans to allow sexually active gays as clergy

By PATRICK CONDON, Associated Press Writer
2 hrs 21 mins ago

MINNEAPOLIS – The nation’s largest Lutheran denomination took openly gay clergy more fully into its fold Friday, as leaders of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America voted to lift a ban that prohibited sexually active gays and lesbians from serving as ministers.
Under the new policy, individual ELCA congregations will be allowed to hire homosexuals in committed relationships as clergy. Until now, gays and lesbians had to remain celibate to serve as clergy.

The change passed with the support of 68 percent of about 1,000 delegates at the ELCA’s national assembly. It makes the group, with about 4.7 million members in the U.S., one of the largest U.S. Christian denominations yet to take a more gay-friendly stance.
“I have seen these same-gender relationships function in the same way as heterosexual relationships — bringing joy and blessings as well as trials and hardships,” the Rev. Leslie Williamson, associate pastor atTrinity Lutheran Church in Des Plaines, Ill., said during the hours of debate. “The same-gender couples I know live in love and faithfulness and are called to proclaim the word of God as are all of us.”

Conservative congregations will not be forced to hire gay clergy. Nevertheless, opponents of the shift decried what they saw as straying from clear Scriptural direction, and warned it could lead some congregations and individual churchgoers to split off from the ELCA.

 

[firstmode]

WOW

"Tim Mumm, a gay man and an assembly delegate from Whitewater, Wis., said the Scripture that guides opponents of the more liberal policy was written by mortals, at a much earlier time, and doesn’t reflect what many Christians now believe.

“I believe for me to marry a woman would be wrong — even sinful,” Mumm said."

 

[PA650]

WOW

"Tim Mumm, a gay man and an assembly delegate from Whitewater, Wis., said the Scripture that guides opponents of the more liberal policy was written by mortals, at a much earlier time, and doesn’t reflect what many Christians now believe.

“I believe for me to marry a woman would be wrong — even sinful,” Mumm said."

I was appalled by what Mumm stated, too.

 

[Tietjen]

The entire subject boggles my mind, but here is a snippet from the AP which truly confuses me:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
08/22/2009
By PATRICK CONDON, Associated Press Writer
Under the new policy, heterosexual clergy and professional lay workers will still have to abstain from sex outside marriage. The proposed change would cover those in “lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships.”
Can someone please help me here? The Lutheran Church will continue to be against sex before marriage??? Then they say that they will support their pastors being in “lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships”??? So, are these “relationships” then to be considered valid marriages? Is the Lutheran Church setting up a double standard by telling heterosexuals they must abstain and while they are doing so they should look the other way while their homosexual pastors do not have to?

Good is now evil and evil is now good. Another protestant religion bites the dust.

 

[JonNC]

=Tietjen;5603731]The entire subject boggles my mind, but here is a snippet from the AP which truly confuses me:

[/INDENT]Can someone please help me here? The Lutheran Church will continue to be against sex before marriage??? Then they say that they will support their pastors being in “lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships”??? So, are these “relationships” then to be considered valid marriages? Is the Lutheran Church setting up a double standard by telling heterosexuals they must abstain and while they are doing so they should look the other way while their homosexual pastors do not have to?

Yes, that is exactly what the ELCA is doing and saying.

Good is now evil and evil is now good.

Only if you consider heterosexual relations outside of wedlock as “good”. What they are really saying is: heterosexual relations outside of marriage were and still are evil, homosexual relations outside of marriage were evil, but now are not.

Another protestant religion bites the dust.

Certainly for those Lutherans who choose not to follow Scripture and the Confessions.

Jon