Gay Conversion Therapy

[Bradski]

A US Christian group that once promoted therapy to encourage gays and lesbians to overcome their sexual preferences has closed its doors and apologised to homosexuals, acknowledging its mission had been hurtful and ignorant.

Exodus International billed itself as the oldest and largest Christian ministry dealing with faith and homosexuality, operating since 1976. It announced it would cease operations in a statement on its website.

The Irvine, California-based group’s board unanimously voted to close Exodus International and begin a separate ministry, the statement said.

“I am sorry for the pain and hurt that many of you have experienced,” President Alan Chambers said in a statement. “I am sorry some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt when your attractions didn’t change. I am sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual orientation that stigmatised parents.”

Chambers said he was part of a “system of ignorance.”

Read more: smh.com.au/world/gay-conversion-group-apologises-20130621-2om9s.html#ixzz2WnPZA0Mz

A system of ignorance? Any comments?

 

[antag]

As a gay man myself, I’ve often thought about such ‘therapies’ - not in participating but in sorrow at the false hope they offer. I don’t think they necessarily presented their ‘ministry’ in bad faith, just that they were hopelessly misguided. Anyone who ever claimed to have been cured or converted by them was probably already capable of heterosexual attraction - i.e. bisexuals have the opportunity to make a choice and still be happy. Homosexuals on the other hand can only end up acting contrary to their in-built instincts and I challenge any heterosexual person to ‘go the other way’ and be happy about it. It’s not surprising the numbers of people who ended up being classed as ‘recidivist’ in this context… Its also not surprising the amount of pain and suffering the false hope ended up causing, when instead these poor people should have been helped to live with their orientations and accept them rather than struggle vainly to change what couldn’t be changed.

I’m very glad this ‘ministry’ has closed.

 

[SonCatcher]

The therapy they promoted was rather unfortunate and probably caused some harm. If they intend to start a new ministry to replace the old, perhaps they could emulate the model of Courage. Rather than try to “fix” the person’d orientation, Courage helps them accept it and find how to live their lives consistently with Church teaching (usually that means celibacy, but the celibate life is long revered among Catholics).

 

[edwest2]

Each individual has the right to determine if they need help with a psychological issue.

pfox.org/about_us.html

Ed

 

[DelsonJacobs]

While I am glad that the Church has the group “Courage,” I have had qualms about recommending it to gay friends and family members who are gay (and have misgivings about those times when I have).

“Courage” had a formal partnership with Exodus International and still supports conversion therapy along with the medically controversial group NARTH.

Even if there was a therapy that could help, the idea that it was so costly that so very few could afford it bothers me. Even medical therapies for dangerous diseases are often supplied to those in need either on a sliding scale, through medicinal price reductions, or outrightly free of cost–and this from non-Christian medical companies that are in it for the money!

If conversion therapists have a method that some feel is important (because one’s eternal life is at stake) why don’t these Christians follow Christ’s command: “Cure the sick…Without cost you have received; without cost you are to give”?–Matthew 10:8.

I also do not agree with “Courage” being a 12-step program in imitation of addiction programs. A sexual orientation is not an addiction. If you cannot use a 12-step program to stop being heterosexual, you cannot use it to stop being homosexual I would think. Catholics choosing “a God of their own understanding”–which Courage members claim to do in their program–doesn’t seem to very Catholic (can we make God into something of our own private understanding at any time, especially one that might conflict with the Church’s teachings)?

This doesn’t mean I do not fully agree with the Church’s teaching and stand on homosexuality. On the contrary, it is because I do that I have these misgivings.

I do think, however, like the persecution of the Jews (which members of my family experienced during the Spanish Inquisition), we Catholics will look back on the time we subjected homosexuals to forced-change programs and will have to apologize ourselves as the Exodus group has.

 

[edwest2]

While I am glad that the Church has the group “Courage,” I have had qualms about recommending it to gay friends and family members who are gay (and have misgivings about those times when I have).

“Courage” had a formal partnership with Exodus International and still supports conversion therapy along with the medically controversial group NARTH.

Even if there was a therapy that could help, the idea that it was so costly that so very few could afford it bothers me. Even medical therapies for dangerous diseases are often supplied to those in need either on a sliding scale, through medicinal price reductions, or outrightly free of cost–and this from non-Christian medical companies that are in it for the money!

If conversion therapists have a method that some feel is important (because one’s eternal life is at stake) why don’t these Christians follow Christ’s command: “Cure the sick…Without cost you have received; without cost you are to give”?–Matthew 10:8.

I also do not agree with “Courage” being a 12-step program in imitation of addiction programs. A sexual orientation is not an addiction. If you cannot use a 12-step program to stop being heterosexual, you cannot use it to stop being homosexual I would think. Catholics choosing “a God of their own understanding”–which Courage members claim to do in their program–doesn’t seem to very Catholic (can we make God into something of our own private understanding at any time, especially one that might conflict with the Church’s teachings)?

This doesn’t mean I do not fully agree with the Church’s teaching and stand on homosexuality. On the contrary, it is because I do that I have these misgivings.

I do think, however, like the persecution of the Jews (which members of my family experienced during the Spanish Inquisition), we Catholics will look back on the time we subjected homosexuals to forced-change programs and will have to apologize ourselves as the Exodus group has.

That last claim is unsupported by any facts. All previous programs prior to 1973 were initiated by the American Psychiatric Association which capitulated to radical gay activists. No one here can or should be accused of anything without proof.

Ed

 

[livingwordunity]

It’s important to realize the fact that everyone struggles with temptations to sin. That’s a fact of life. But we shouldn’t give up the spiritual fight. With God all things are possible, and there are plenty of examples of people who are conversion therapy successes. Also, there’s very little evidence that people are actually born homosexual but strong evidence that homosexual attraction is likely a result of social factors or sexual molestation. For example:

“In research with 942 nonclinical adult participants, gay men and lesbian women reported a significantly higher rate of childhood molestation than did heterosexual men and women. Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation. Twenty-two percent of lesbian women in contrast to 1% of heterosexual women reported homosexual molestation. This research is apparently the first survey that has reported substantial homosexual molestation of girls. Suggestions for future research were offered.”

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11501300

When someone claims that they were born that way ask them how far back they can actually remember.

I guarantee it won’t be back to the day of their birth.

.

 

[Olga_Voronina]

T capitulated to radical gay activists.

Ed

What a blatant lie. Fortunately the likes of you can’t rewrite historical facts in regard to APA that are well documented. They “capitulated” to science. Opponents of removing homosexuality from DSM lost 3 times (!) scientific debates and then opponents having found a loophole initiated the infamous voting procedure. Which they lost as well.

I wonder if Jesus Christ will punish you according to the Holy Scripture. DO NOT LIE (c) =).

 

[ahollars]

What a blatant lie. Fortunately the likes of you can’t rewrite historical facts in regard to APA that are well documented. They “capitulated” to science. Opponents of removing homosexuality from DSM lost 3 times (!) scientific debates and then opponents having found a loophole initiated the infamous voting procedure. Which they lost as well.

I wonder if Jesus Christ will punish you according to the Holy Scripture. DO NOT LIE (c) =).

What science? All preventative and rehabilitative research stopped when homosexuality was removed from the American Journal of Medicine. Since then, only the effects have been studied, not the cause nor the cure. (Oh, the horror!)

Every other human behavior can be influenced by therapy or treatment. Why is homosexuality exempt from that?

 

[djames99]

There is no mention of affiliation, so we can assume the organization was based on some
deficient “Christian” doctrine, for the virtues of prudence,trust,patience,fortitude,etc seem to be lacking in it’s resolve. It would seem some therapy commonly seen in Scandinavian countries was employed, “fanning the fire” as it were.

Primarily, one belief would need to play prominent in such an organization, and that is the recognition of the Blessed Mother’s contribution as key treatment for such afflictions. If one were considering such an organization from the design phase, leaving no possibility unconsidered, it would have considered what the best force of opposition would be for demonic influence, and here she comes into her own. The Church has adviser would have provided the answer immediately. It is a disservice to the afflicted to initiate such an organization without it. If it expects the afflicted to give their all, then the organization should do the same.

Sadly, most denominations put little weight on her ability to effect remedies, as for them she plays only a domestic role in Christ’s ministry. This view is mirrored in any new endeavors as a natural consequence of their severing from the true Church. The evidence proves otherwise as parents of such afflicted, and the afflicted themselves, report cures or an alteration of the modus of the symptoms so that they can be dealt with more readily.

She does not waste her God given graces meant for distribution. She insists on trust, and evidence of determination and sincerity, which calls for a dry period perhaps lasting years. But within a few months, as an indicator of her presence and a revelation of the source of the affliction, some afflicted usually report a diminishing. At this point the ruse is uncovered for what it is and the patient had best not turn back.

 

[fix]

What a blatant lie. Fortunately the likes of you can’t rewrite historical facts in regard to APA that are well documented. They “capitulated” to science. Opponents of removing homosexuality from DSM lost 3 times (!) scientific debates and then opponents having found a loophole initiated the infamous voting procedure. Which they lost as well.

I wonder if Jesus Christ will punish you according to the Holy Scripture. DO NOT LIE (c) =).

Gay propaganda strikes again.

 

[PetrusRomanus]

Everyone I know who is gay has told me they have felt and known this since early childhood, since as long as they can remember, since the moment a child would normally be aware of their sexual orientation, they have known it.
As for “evidence” of that…well, as often said on this forum, we don’t always need scientific evidence to prove something is true. Case in point–we cannot prove scientifically that God exists, but Christians and people of religion believe this is true nevertheless.

God isnt a matter of science, but of spirituality.

Homosexuality IS a matter of science, so it needs to be proven scientifically since the claim is that it is biological.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

That last claim is unsupported by any facts. All previous programs prior to 1973 were initiated by the American Psychiatric Association which capitulated to radical gay activists. No one here can or should be accused of anything without proof.

Ed

Since the last claim on my post has to do with people in my family lineage who were persecuted for being of Jewish descent, I am not sure which claim you are speaking of. I wasn’t speaking against Courage as a group nor did I ever try to present any type of claim that was clinical or scientific. I was merely expressing my feelings about misgivings I have had when I used to work closely with Courage and EnCourage programs which I did for several years having a brother who is has same-sex attractions.

My apologies if you found anything personally offending or as personally challenging your views. This was not intended.

 

[westNwewaxation]

Here is the actual announcement on the group’s website, which the article alludes to:
exodusinternational.org/2013/06/exodus-international-to-shut-down/

One of the saddest things to me is that this ministry is not REALLY “shutting down”, it is re-forming as a new group which will undermine traditional Christian teaching about the incompatibility of homosexual practice with salvation.

… the Board of Directors unanimously voted to close Exodus International and begin a separate ministry… to reduce fear … and come alongside churches to become safe, welcoming, and mutually transforming communities.”

Honeyed words which will probably shipwreck many confused young people into believing homosexual practice is nothing to be feared, and therefore, at least implicitly, something to be explored as part of “who you are”.

My question would be: which hurt gay people more? Exodus’ past efforts over the last 20 years or so to help homosexual people who came to them voluntarily to get help to refrain from acting on their urges?, or the promotion of the gay mindset that encourages and facilitates people to go ahead and indulge in homosexual behavior which is the reason HIV transmission rates in the gay community are virtually unchanged after 30 years of the AIDS epidemic?

Who should really be apologizing here? Let’s try to frame this situation rationally.

 

[manualman]

In fairness, the description of their new mission is so vauge that one can’t tell if they will assist gay people in being celibate or “assist” gay people by telling them they can act on their feelings without any harm.

I do think one of the big problems they had was the lack of esteem protestants have historically had for the virtue of celibacy. Since many protestants deride the idea of celibacy in service to God (somehow not noticing St. Pauls example and teaching on the subject), it’s not surprising that they’d conclude that God would not / could not afflict people with a disordered inclination that couldn’t be resolved.

As if that’s really any difference than being born with limbs that don’t work, or deafness, etc. Sometimes we are afflicted with suffering. We don’t completely know why, but we do know that God calls us to trust Him anyways. He won’t always take away the suffering, but He WILL help us through it. That’s true of all sorts of suffering in life.

 

[edwest2]

Since the last claim on my post has to do with people in my family lineage who were persecuted for being of Jewish descent, I am not sure which claim you are speaking of. I wasn’t speaking against Courage as a group nor did I ever try to present any type of claim that was clinical or scientific. I was merely expressing my feelings about misgivings I have had when I used to work closely with Courage and EnCourage programs which I did for several years having a brother who is has same-sex attractions.

My apologies if you found anything personally offending or as personally challenging your views. This was not intended.

I was referring to the generalized “we” in this statement:

“I do think, however, like the persecution of the Jews (which members of my family experienced during the Spanish Inquisition), we Catholics will look back on the time we subjected homosexuals to forced-change programs and will have to apologize ourselves as the Exodus group has.”

It’s unfair to say ‘we Catholics’ 'will have to apologize ourselves." The other group is the number of people in it. I’m just pointing out that assigning guilt to an entire group is not a good thing. Human beings have a bad habit of killing or injuring others on a daily basis for a number of reasons. And those human beings come from all philosophical and religious and non-religious groups. Not counting a few that will spend their remaining years in some sort of cloistered environment.

Ho harm done.

Best,
Ed

 

[westNwewaxation]

In fairness, the description of their new mission is so vauge that one can’t tell if they will assist gay people in being celibate or “assist” gay people by telling them they can act on their feelings without any harm…

Exactly. It’s vague and that’s how they like it. I have been following the dispute on Dr Rob Gagnon’s facebook page and this is the central point of conflict, the seriousness of unrepentant homosexual practice. No, Exodus does not spell it out in their announcement, and one could understand why since that is the most controversial part of the changes they have made, and they are trying to keep that as much in the background as possible. If you are on facebook, you can see Dr Gagnon’s Facebook page here, or go to the somewhat older link at his website below.

It seems at first they made some subtle theological changes in what they believed about sin and grace and morality, but with theology sometimes one subtle change can snowball into very different moral conclusions, and that is what has happened with Exodus and is the reason that there has been so much controversy resulting in them shutting down one ministry to open a new one with a new direction.

Alan Chambers has made it fairly clear what the new direction in his ministry will be, as an offshoot of new theological beliefs he has espoused, saying “…Exodus leadership prefers to assure self-professed Christians who engage in unrepentant homosexual practice that they are going to heaven irrespective of whether they bring their life into line with a confession of Christ’s lordship.”
robgagnon.net/ExodusCollisionCourseWithJesus.htm

They have tried to skirt the issue as much as possible, and avoid specifics, but their position from what I have read is that it is preferable, but not required, for gays to be celibate. I can try to find more links about the dispute if you like. But I’ll let you make your own determination what the above statement about “unrepentant homosexual practice” and attitudes like that will do as far as guiding people toward celibacy.

 

[Patavium]

Some facts (more at forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=781049)

Let’s stop perpetuating these myths (mygenes.co.nz/myths.htm)

1. Gays are 10% of the population backarrow

No academic would agree. Numerous surveys in many countries show that (including bisexuals) gays are 2-3% of the population and lesbians are 1-2%.

1. Gay relationships are as stable and long-lasting as those of heterosexuals

Gay relationships last about 2.5 years for both gays and lesbians, whereas in the divorce-prone US a heterosexual couple has nearly an even chance of reaching their silver wedding anniversary (25y).

1. Gays are extremely promiscuous

Both gays and lesbians have 3-4 times as many partners as heterosexuals (comparison of medians). (Some people say this is extreme, some don’t.)

1. Gays and lesbians are psychologically on par with heterosexuals

A good rule of thumb is they have 3 times as many problems. All are prone to suicide attempts. Otherwise problems are mostly depression and other mood disorders for men and substance abuse problems for women, though there are many others.

1. Gay psychological problems are a result of society’s discrimination and rejection

Very little evidence has been found for this. Whether in tolerant and accepting environments or in intolerant ones, the incidence and type of psychological problems remain about the same.

1. Gays are born that way

**From six studies (2000-2011): if an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances that the co-twin has it too, are only about 11% for men and 14% for women. This means that factors the twins have in common, such as genes and upbringing are mostly not responsible – individual and idiosyncratic responses to random events and to common environmental factors predominate.
**

1. Gays say that they have been this way ever since they can remember

The mean age of first same-sex attraction is 10 and two thirds of the ages of first attraction are in the range 6-14 years. It is therefore highly atypical that same sex attraction is an earliest memory. What are probably being remembered are early longings to feel part of their gender group emanating from feelings of insecurity and difference.

1. Gays choose this lifestyle

There can be little informed, responsible choice involved if first attraction is about age 10. At that age no-one chooses lifetime sexual orientation or lifestyle in any usual sense. SSA is discovered to exist in oneself rather than chosen.

1. Nobody knows how same sex attraction develops

Some SSA people do, being able to trace it to early experiences of sexual abuse, reactions to breakdowns in family relationships, exclusion from same sex peer groups, porn. Others are not used to thinking about predisposing circumstances and have no idea how their homosexual orientation developed – just as most heterosexuals have no idea how they became heterosexual. There are many paths, each relatively minor in the overall picture, but very important to those individuals whom they affect.

1. Homosexual orientation cannot be changed

Neutral academic surveys show there is substantial change. About half of the homosexual/bisexual population (in a non-therapeutic environment) moves towards heterosexuality over a lifetime. About 3% of the present heterosexual population once firmly believed themselves to be homosexual or bisexual. Sexual orientation is not set in concrete.

1. Gay teens need special support in schools

In the West today, 98% of today’s teens who believe they are homosexual at 16 will believe they are heterosexual one year later. It is irresponsible to offer gay affirmative counselling to teens on the grounds that the homosexual orientation is intrinsic and fixed.

1. Therapy producing change in sexual orientation is damaging

**The best longitudinal study (backed up by many others) shows most people change to some extent - from slightly to 100%. Positive and negative effects are typical of outcomes for most other therapies. Re-orientation therapies also decrease depression, and substance abuse.
**
13. Private sexual acts do not affect society

Male gay sex is medically risky. Surveys put the number of practising gay/bisexual men who are married at about 15%, putting wives at risk. Sexual activity (gay or straight) outside long-term, faithful, committed relationships are ultimately a cost to the state in numerous ways.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Great post, Patavium!

 

[livingwordunity]

Homosexuality is also something a person feels in their spirit, too.

That sounds very sentimental. But it’s about as sentimental and unprovable as someone claiming that they were “born that way”. But speaking in religious terms, we are all tempted spiritually by one kind of sin or another. This is the weakness of our human condition. Again speaking in spiritual terms, sin leads to death. It is self-destructive and is therefore something we must always struggle against rather than embrace.