Gay 'Conversion' Therapy

[Joe_73]

While I have that opinion, I also think its not black and white, You also have to take into account what therapy is trying to achieve, with what attitude it is motivated by, and who is doing it, with what methods, and What one considers to be undesirable feelings.

 

[anon10271182]

Exactly. It’s a simple syllogism:

Premise 1: There is no valid “blessing” of sinful acts, relationships, or lifestyles.
Premise 2: Homosexual activity, and relationships and lifestyles which include it, are sinful.
Conclusion: Therefore there is no valid “blessing” for this activity or these relationships or lifestyles.

Those who advocate these “blessings” generally disagree with premise 2. They cloak their disagreement in terms of “social justice” or arguments that the Church must change, because they cannot, being “born this way” (and therefore having a right to fornicate).

It is not, however, a social justice issue, or a biological issue. It is a sin issue and a spiritual warfare issue.

It is this same “right to fornicate” thinking, under the influence of the devil, that perpetuates the slaughter of the unborn.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Once you feel less awful about yourself

I guess your right. I need to learn how to stop being distressed about my attractions. I still for some reason feel distressed and awful almost every time I find a guy good looking.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I guess your right. I need to learn how to stop being distressed about my attractions. I still for some reason feel distressed and awful almost every time I find a guy good looking.

I think that is a spiritual attack. One of the important steps of discernment of spirits is distinguishing between the natural and the spiritual impulse. Looking at a guy and thinking “gosh, he’s beautiful” is a natural impulse – not spiritual attack. No one should ever feel guilty for such a thought. But the devil seizes on it. The devil tells you, “You’re a male, and you shouldn’t find males beautiful”. Is that God’s rule? No! God made males the way they are, so He’s fine with them being good looking. The devil wants you to feel dirty, to feel perverted. He especially wants this BEFORE you sin. Because it paves the way for sin.

Thus, “You’re bad for finding that guy cute” is a spiritual attack. It paves the way for other spiritual attacks, like, “Since you’re already such a terrible person, what’s the harm in lusting after that guy, in imagining sex with him?” When we get to that point in our thinking, we’ve already been listening to the voice of darkness in our lives.

BUT God knows we’re gonna listen to the devil sometimes. He understands that, just like a father understands that his son is sometimes going to push the other kids on the playground. The Lord’s response to our falling on the spiritual battlefield is not judgment, but grace! He picks us up, dusts us off, and tells us how neat it is to be our Daddy. He’s not watching out for us to make a mistake, and pouncing. He thinks we’re the cat’s pajamas. When we listen to HIS voice, we receive help, and not hindrance, from the spiritual world.

But the key point I want to make is about the natural and the spiritual. When a natural response triggers guilt in you, you need to allow God the Father to be with you in that moment. He does not blame you, and He is not the slightest bit distressed.

 

[theCardinalbird]

The devil wants you to feel dirty, to feel perverted

And that’s the problem. When I see a guy who is breathtaking I scorn myself because i guess I feel if I look at him for a while, I’ll fall in love or have a man crush. Which also hurts me emotionally knowing I won’t be able to be with him (most people deal with this). I just need to find a way to control these desires of mine, before they hurt me even more.

Thanks for your advice btw. It helps a lot!

 

[theCardinalbird]

Thanks for the advice Cajun! It helps

 

[theCardinalbird]

I’m labouring through his confessions. Had to stop because of exams but I started reading

 

[Prodigal_Son]

And that’s the problem. When I see a guy who is breathtaking I scorn myself because i guess I feel if I look at him for a while, I’ll fall in love or have a man crush.

This is important – do you scorn yourself because you actually look at him for a while, or do you scorn yourself because you IMAGINE how you’d feel IF you looked at him for a while? The difference is huge. Actually looking at him for a while is not in itself sin, but it’s likely to land you either in (a) lust, or (b) depression. I wouldn’t scorn myself for doing such a thing, but I would realize that it’s a bit like putting my hand on a hot stove. It hurts no one but myself, but it DOES hurt me. It certainly runs the risk.

(When you hurt yourself, by the way, self-scorn just makes it worse. Be gentle with God’s child – that’s you!)

But if you just imagine that you’d feel that attachment to him IF you stared at him, then we’re talking real scrupulosity here. Every guy with SSA knows that fixating on a gorgeous man will land him in deep you-know-what, eventually. That’s not some weird fact about you. It’s a fact about everyone. As a married man, I have to stop myself from imagining what it would be like to be with someone else – because that sort of imagining would make me miserable, or make me unfaithful. But there mere fact that I would like the idea of being with someone else, if I fixated on it, isn’t something to feel ashamed of. It’s human nature.

 

[theCardinalbird]

do you scorn yourself because you actually look at him for a while, or do you scorn yourself because you IMAGINE how you’d feel IF you looked at him for a while?

Surprisingly it’s both, actually looking at him and how I’d feel if I looked at him for a while. I do both, maybe not always both but I scorn myself for both

But if you just imagine that you’d feel that attachment to him IF you stared at him, then we’re talking real scrupulosity here.

Not surprising, I’m scrupulous sadly

Every guy with SSA knows that fixating on a gorgeous man will land him in deep you-know-what, eventually. That’s not some weird fact about you. It’s a fact about everyone.

I know. it isn’t fun

Edit: I really didn’t know that wasnt a weird fact

Edit 2: thanks for the advice!!

 

[Joe_73]

I’ve often found when I’m facing really strong temptations, homosexually, or immorally related, I don’t even like them when I give into them, but the fear of what might happen, and the trauma of it happening before, makes me scared even from the situation of possibility(fearing something more could happen, because it has before, fearing that I will desire and embrace this sin, cause I have before). It makes me panic, and try to relieve the fear/shame by getting a sexual high with the object of my fear/shame. So knowing how to handle fear and/or shame is essential. Cause even when I am not experiencing a homo-sexual attraction the fear and anticipatory shame that it may happen brings it back up.

So a great way to grow is to learn how to respond to the initial attractions: infatuation, nervousness, admiration, jealousy, loneliness. Cause those emotions have the potential to go in different directions, if handle correctly, but shame and fear can be their downfall. It’s better to respect the feelings, listen to them, interpret them, thank them, and respond appropriately.

Also grief work is helpful, so you don’t have to deal with post traumatic stress

 

[theCardinalbird]

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Joe_73]

The basic principles of what I just outlined are also present in Joseph Nicolosi’s book if you were wondering. It talks about shame and anticipatory shame, as well as fear, and greif work.

 

[Joe_73]

Just wanted to add, Even if a feeling is a bit sexual, or gets worse, the same principles still apply. If your self esteem crumbles(that is, experiencing shame) as you experience the feelings, they can become extremely amplified very quickly. I just highlighted the non sexual feelings because those usually happen first in sequence, but they can move by before you catch them sometimes. In that case, ignore the sexual feelings, and pay attention to the other feelings supporting them.

 

[anon10271182]

In his excellent book “Spiritual Warfare,” Paul Thigpen labels what Prodigal Son is describing as “accusation,” an ordinary activity of the devil and one of the five means of temptation he employs.