Gay engagement party

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Gertabelle said:
I don’t think I’ve seen a single post on this thread that advocated telling the gay men involved what the Bible or the Catholic Church teach. This has been about the OP’s conversation with his/her father about attending an engagement party for two men.
And accepting that they have free will doesn’t mean we have to change our beliefs and celebrate all their choices. 🤷

Gertie
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I’m going to take a big guess and assume the two men who are getting married know very well what the Catholic church thinks about gay marriage and men and women having sex with their own gender–that one is not valid and the second is a sin.

And for arguments sake, I guess we can assume that these two men have sex together? (because if they don’t there is no sin involved, and no problem here. For all we know, they don’t have sex and are not sinning at all. The poster has not specified, but for discussion’s sake, I am just assuming they are…)

But I’m also going to take a big guess that…these two men getting married do not follow or agree with the teachings of the Catholic church or think they are true or right. So telling them means nothing to them–it is not part of their world, their paradigm. You would be speaking a whole other language to them.

IMHO, the poster should do what he feels is right for himself…and so should the father. The father sees a higher help and a higher need in being there for his friend. Maybe the poster and the others here don’t see it, that’s obvious–but the father does.
It means a lot to ease a friend’s possible pain with a small gesture like this.

As I’ve seen repeated on this site hundreds of times…Jesus himself sat and ate with sinners.

But to repeat what the poster above says "…accepting that they have free will doesn’t mean we have to change our beliefs and celebrate all their choices"…
Absolutely!
And that also goes for the gay couple and the father wanting to attend the party.
They don’t agree with the beliefs of the poster…so they, too, don’t have to change their own beliefs or celebrate the poster’s choice *not *to attend the party.

It’s one thing sticking to your own beliefs and do what you feel is right and not let other people derail you…but you should respect others’ want to do that, too.
The father is not trying to change the poster’s mind about going to the party…the gay couple is not trying to change the poster’s mind about accepting gay marriage or gay sex.
The poster should want to give them all the same respect they are giving him, too.

Do you try to change the belief system of every Jewish person you meet? If you have a Jewish friend and they invite you to their child’s batmitzvah, do you not attend because they believe and are taught that Jesus is only a Jewish prophet and not God? I sure hope not…

And even if you did indeed want to try to persuade others to adopt your own belief system…wouldn’t this party be a perfect place to do such?
You’ve got to go where the “sinners” gather and meet and talk to them, after all, instead of just removing yourself entirely for fear that you are “showing approval”.

This would be the perfect opportunity!
 
eaintheavy

**It’s one thing sticking to your own beliefs and do what you feel is right and not let other people derail you…but you should respect others’ want to do that, too. **

You don’t have to respect another person’s desire to live a sinful life. Nor do you have to celebrate their sins with them. Jesus never did that. Nor did Paul or any of the apostles.

You are a victim of political correctness. Get over it. 😉
 
Tell him to go, & go with him. Your friend was given a soul, there was no choice in this. You accept your soul and make God proud.

Be happy, and be happy for your friends.

Imagine if everyone stifled their feelings - then we have horrific things that happen.

Have a happy & Holy Easter.

David
 
"Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” Romans 1:18-32

By celebrating with his friend and his friend’s son, he is giving approval to those who practice sodomy.

Any Catholic who joins in celebrating sodomy is endangering his immortal soul, never mind encouraging others to endanger theirs. Any “friend” who is offended by a Catholic not wanting to join the celebration of sodomy is not a friend.
 
Sodomy???

It is a party - to acknowledge a joyful relationship with monogamy and sharing love!

How old are these teachings?

Do we still ask our women to cover their heads at Mass? Is Mass still in Latin?

I pray for anyone who has to think of everything sexual in order to make a just and happy choice.

Very confused.
 
heaintheavy said:
IMHO, the poster should do what he feels is right for himself…and so should the father. The father sees a higher help and a higher need in being there for his friend. Maybe the poster and the others here don’t see it, that’s obvious–but the father does.
It means a lot to ease a friend’s possible pain with a small gesture like this.
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Yes, we should all do what we feel is right for ourselves.

And there is no higher need or help than “being there” for a friend.

Thank you for yet another example of (a)moral relativism.

As a Catholic, the son should remind his father of what the Church teaches. I’m thinking that his father may be of the generation just under mine, that did not get good catechesis at all, and that, furthermore, has gone all wishy-washy when it comes to the things it did know, before “tolerance” and “non-judgment” became the highest possible aspirations of a human being.
 
36 Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee’s house and reclined at the table. 37 When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee’s house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38 and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them. 39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is–that she is a sinner.” 40

You know the rest. Hopefully you do.
Luke.
Chapter 7
The Gospel
The Good News

Would you attend the engagement parrty of your own son or daughter, knowing they are engaging in premarital sex? Would that be implicit acceptance and an occasion for scandal?

Is attendance at a party acceptance of the lifestyles of the partygoers? What if they behave “normally” at this party? What if they have strippers and pornographic movies?
Can people of different faiths and beliefs and states of grace coexist in the same room? Is that proper? Or is that sinful?

Can the attendees at a party be enriched spiritually by your attendance? Can you spread the good news if you are not willing to mingle with sinners?

If you sinned (assuming you do sin, sounds like it might not apply to everyone here) in the last few weeks without going to confession, should you go to an engagement party? Maybe you should not tarnish the others with your sin?

Go to the party. Represent the Catholic Church well. Don’t engage in sin while you are there, and don’t turn gay while you are there. 🙂
 
19

How old are these teachings?

Do you decide whether a Christian moral rule is right or wrong by how old it is? :confused:

Is Paul in error? :confused:

Have you been catechized? :confused:

If so, did your Catechist tell you that Paul was wrong and sodomy is right? :confused:
 
clem
**
Would you attend the engagement parrty of your own son or daughter, knowing they are engaging in premarital sex? Would that be implicit acceptance and an occasion for scandal?**

This is some of the sloppiest reasoning I have ever heard in this forum. My son or daughter’s engagement party would be an occasion for rejoicing because (if they were practicing pre-marital sex) they are going to sanctify their sex very shortly … Halleluia!.

In the case posed here, the two parties are planning a lifetime of sodomy together, a lifetime of sin together, and they are celebrating? And I am, in Christian charity, supposed to help them
celebrate. :confused:

I’ve not heard that Jesus admired sodomy. Quite the opposite.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
clem
**
Would you attend the engagement parrty of your own son or daughter, knowing they are engaging in premarital sex? Would that be implicit acceptance and an occasion for scandal?**

This is some of the sloppiest reasoning I have ever heard in this forum. My son or daughter’s engagement party would be an occasion for rejoicing because (if they were practicing pre-marital sex) they are going to sanctify their sex very shortly … Halleluia!.

In the case posed here, the two parties are planning a lifetime of sodomy together, a lifetime of sin together, and they are celebrating? And I am, in Christian charity, supposed to help them
celebrate. :confused:
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You’re avoiding the questions.
 
Serious?

Is this a real forum?

I remember as a child - the oppression shown on everyone in the church, - I remember being dragged across the cheaply varnished one coat smelling Pugh, that grazed my thighs, because I dared to cough, - I remember the waiting there for hours (so it seemed) - so everyone felt better after listening hours of talking. Ears & eyes shut off… just fumbling on pockets of those looking for what they could find to put in the plate - as they had not picked up designated envelopes - but still put money in the plate every week, and made sure their kids did as well. Then the next money had to show. Lighting candles. -

Then the new Father arrived

Everything became good.

I remember his hymns, face & his enjoyment,

I became an Altar boy. I was in charge of the Blood, not the Body, I was in charge of the ‘gong & the bells’ when the Blessed Holy Sacrament was amongst us.

I remember being told by the Father that I was sent a message by God to be doing this important job - & I did. - I was proud.

My faith in my Church grew, daily, and it was fantastic!

I had confidence to talk

I joined a group called ‘Friend’ here in UK.

Then things changed - all the old types with ‘Scriptures & Quotes’ came out - like I said earlier, my Fathers House has many rooms.

Please be accepting of all those who can express a feeling. We are all Roman Catholics - I am proud, and happy. OK use the word Sodomy! But I am not hidden in the Priesthood, & I speak strongly about that defending our Church.

Do I move on?.. stay with this group? I am not advocating be gay… just… we all have souls. Some are Cardinals, some are Cheerleaders, some are Lawyers, some are Repair Guys, Presidents - lots of us…

I am Roman Catholic… I am proud to say that.

I will not feel oppressed by past teachings, as I feel History has a part to play in forgiveness - not just me!

I am a happy man

I am David

From England. - Defend my faith.

Roll the hate emails now.
I thought being a Roman Catholic was a gift!
We’ll see.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Any Catholic who joins in celebrating sodomy is endangering his immortal soul, never mind encouraging others to endanger theirs. Any “friend” who is offended by a Catholic not wanting to join the celebration of sodomy is not a friend.
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This might come as a surprise, but not all gay men have gay sex.

There are some gay men who do not enjoy anal sex. Now, obviously most gay men do that, but not all. So you shouldn’t think its all about sodomy because its not. They are getting married for love, not sex.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
clem

I’ve not heard that Jesus admired sodomy. Quite the opposite.
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From what I understand, Jesus is not recorded as saying anything specific in the bible about homosexuality at all.
Can you give us the direct quotes?
 
Yet again - a referral to sexual happenings.

OK - you use the word ‘anal’ because, I imagine it is an emotive word and instructs a natural gut feeling.

Shall I use - vaginal - that is a another word - how many Catholic ladies, have thought - please be over soon - close your eyes.

I would not dare to mention your ‘private times’ - that is for you, your loved one, and the Lord Jesus.

Using the word ‘anal’ incites hatred, and makes people feel a feeling, just by reading that word. I think that is wrong.

How would you feel if I hid my feelings. Devoted myself to God - joined the Priesthood, first deployment was ‘BlahBlahBlah’ - then started my - no one understands how I feel, it is something wicked I thought one day… and it grows to sexual abuse?

I was sexually abused by a family member. I had the Church as a support mechanism. They where and are fantastic, I am open with my sexuality, had a long term relationship that finished. Shame. But I have the confidence, to appreciate it is part of life. Not to hide who I am and subject my expriments of how I am feeling, who might want to try one day, and the person at the other end, has no chance of saying no. -

I know - 'tis easy for us all to say ‘deny’ - but the higher the R/C ladder you climb, the older you get, and closer to God - our religion alienates you.

Opus Dei - seriously, you do not want us. Do you not?

Your days in cassocks and pointing and blame is me - methinks

We Roman Catholics are ready to embrace the future!

Happy & Holy Easter all

19davo69
 
clem456 said:
Would you attend the engagement parrty of your own son or daughter, knowing they are engaging in premarital sex? Would that be implicit acceptance and an occasion for scandal?

I
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To answer your question, I may very well NOT attend the engagement party of my child if they are entering into an invalid marriage. We are bound to not attend any wedding ceremony that would lead to an invalid marriage, regardless of the couple’s sexual orientation. Attending an engagement party of said couple could very well give scandal.

Its not about being in the company of a sinner. It is all about the sacrament of matrimony and what the Catholic Church teaches about what is and isn’t a vaild marriage. A marriage between two gay people, not a vaild marriage within the teachings of the Catholic Church anymore than a second marriage for a divorced Catholic that failed to get an annulment. Attending either example could give scandal.
 
heaintheavy

**From what I understand, Jesus is not recorded as saying anything specific in the bible about homosexuality at all.
Can you give us the direct quotes? **

Well, obviously he doesn’t use the word “homosexuality” because that is a 20th century word. But at the heart of homosexuality is sex between men, and that is designated by the ancient term “sodomy” (oral or anal). Paul used the term as we use it today. Jesus would certainly have known the same use of it in reference to Sodom and Gomorrah.

“Whoever will not receive you or listen to your words–go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. I tell you the truth, the wicked cities of Sodom and Gomorrah will be better off than such a town on the judgment day.” Matthew 10:14

Jesus is looking for a horrible sin which is less horrible, but nearly as horrible, as the sin of refusing to hear the gospel. He found it in a comparison with the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, well known to be the sin of sodomy.

Paul advances the sin of sodomy as a great sin as well. Do you think Paul was not in tune with the teachings of Christ? Do you think he would even think of contradicting the teachings of Christ?
 
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