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demolitionman65
Guest
Yes. The Catechism describes the conscience as the “proximate norm of morality.” Not the absolute arbiter, which Fr. Schexnayder seems to be suggesting.
"Gay Friendly" Agenda Gaining Footholds in Catholic Schools Around The Country
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goofyjim
Guest
Is there a chance that the children are telling us how to accept our lesbian and gay family members. Should we keep our ears an eyes open?
Lord, have mercy:bowdown2:
Lord, have mercy:bowdown2:
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Tinkerbell
Guest
Yeah, we need the children to teach the parents. Not the other way around. You know where the parents teach the children.
I must be a misguided parent.
I would take my kids out of that school so fast and protest all the way to the vatican.
I must be a misguided parent.
I would take my kids out of that school so fast and protest all the way to the vatican.
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CatQuilt
Guest
Yeah, we need the children to teach the parents. Not the other way around. You know where the parents teach the children.
I must be a misguided parent.
I would take my kids out of that school so fast and protest all the way to the vatican.
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Strider
Guest
I know this is an old article, but it contains a beautiful exampke how people dissemble and select to make their point. Below is a quote from the article:
"[T]he Catholic Catechism of last year, of all things, says, `Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of the person in their bodily and spiritual being.’ I think we need to begin to utilize that because it speaks, at least for me, to what we’re about helping to integrate people, young people, integrate them with their own sexuality who they are —integrate them within their families…" “Since the Church is saying everybody is called to it,” said Schexnayder, “it’s not primarily abstinence.”
Paragraph 2337 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church says in whole
2337 Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being. Sexuality, in which man’s belonging to the bodily and biological world is expressed, becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of **a man and a woman. **
The virtue of chastity therefore involves the integrity of the person and the integrality of the gift. (Emphasis added)
So Father forgot to mention the part about a “man and a woman.” Of course, his partial quote fit his agenda better.
"[T]he Catholic Catechism of last year, of all things, says, `Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of the person in their bodily and spiritual being.’ I think we need to begin to utilize that because it speaks, at least for me, to what we’re about helping to integrate people, young people, integrate them with their own sexuality who they are —integrate them within their families…" “Since the Church is saying everybody is called to it,” said Schexnayder, “it’s not primarily abstinence.”
Paragraph 2337 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church says in whole
2337 Chastity means the successful integration of sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being. Sexuality, in which man’s belonging to the bodily and biological world is expressed, becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of **a man and a woman. **
The virtue of chastity therefore involves the integrity of the person and the integrality of the gift. (Emphasis added)
So Father forgot to mention the part about a “man and a woman.” Of course, his partial quote fit his agenda better.
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StPeterRules
Guest
Just before the session closed, Amity Buxton complained that the Church says it is wrong to “express homosexual friendships sexually.” Schexnayder responded, “The Church validates the sanctity of an individual conscience. After a certain point, it’s nobody’s damn business. What are we going to do? Ask everybody? We don’t do that of heterosexuals. Because they have a loving relationships before marriage, do we go around asking, `Are you sexually active?’ As Cardinal Mahony said at our national conference last year, we should be careful not to ask more of gay and lesbian people than we do of heterosexuals.”
He’s gonna quote Cardinal Mahoney?
Great move. That’s like Adam and Eve defending themselves by saying “But Lucifer said…”
Rogue priests deserve to be severed from the Church. Spreading lies in morality in the name of God is the gravest of sins, IMO.
He’s gonna quote Cardinal Mahoney?
Great move. That’s like Adam and Eve defending themselves by saying “But Lucifer said…”
Rogue priests deserve to be severed from the Church. Spreading lies in morality in the name of God is the gravest of sins, IMO.
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surfinpure
Guest
I agree one hundred percent. And if my children’s school, public OR private, began pushing the gay agenda, I’d both yank them out AND petition the Vatican!
This is not an issue of rights, tolerance, or fairness. We’re talking about very young souls being exposed to and even taught a very grave sin.It’s a non-issue.
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surfinpure
Guest
The children aren’t tell us a single thing. They’re the innocent bystanders in this unnatural war. The only ones trying to communicate something to us are the leaders of a political agenda. And their message is certainly not about love.
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Other_Eric
Guest
Hi Guys!
I’m afraid I don’t know how to respond. I’m think we’re going to have to define our terms. What does it mean to be “gay friendly?” Is it possible for a school to be both orthodox and “gay friendly” or does Church teaching require the school to be “gay hostile?”
I’m afraid I don’t know how to respond. I’m think we’re going to have to define our terms. What does it mean to be “gay friendly?” Is it possible for a school to be both orthodox and “gay friendly” or does Church teaching require the school to be “gay hostile?”
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surfinpure
Guest
Other Eric:
The way I see it, “gay hostile” and “gay friendly” are equally unacceptable. Why? Because both attitudes require an undue focus on perversion. I believe if the “gay issue” comes up at all in a Catholic school, it should be addressed only as it is addressed in Scripture and Tradition. Bottom line, we don’t hate the sinner, but neither do we condone the sin.
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Other_Eric
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
I agree with you that an inordinate focus on a perversion is uncharitable. Everyone has heard the “love the sinner, hate the sin” line done to death. My question is, in this situation, what does it mean to love the sinner and hate the sin in real, practical terms?
Almost any acknowledgment of the homosexual in anything other than a vocabulary laced with buzzwords such as “depraved” and “psychotic” could be construed by some to be “gay friendly.” The it might be said to be a grave injustice to not automatically expel a student who presents to, say, a trusted teacher or a guidance counselor with fears about some same-sex attraction that he or she might be experiencing. What better way to teach the child of how grave his or her condition is?
So, I ask again, what are we talking about when we use the phrase “gay friendly?”
Hi surf(name removed by moderator)ure!
I agree with you that an inordinate focus on a perversion is uncharitable. Everyone has heard the “love the sinner, hate the sin” line done to death. My question is, in this situation, what does it mean to love the sinner and hate the sin in real, practical terms?
Almost any acknowledgment of the homosexual in anything other than a vocabulary laced with buzzwords such as “depraved” and “psychotic” could be construed by some to be “gay friendly.” The it might be said to be a grave injustice to not automatically expel a student who presents to, say, a trusted teacher or a guidance counselor with fears about some same-sex attraction that he or she might be experiencing. What better way to teach the child of how grave his or her condition is?
So, I ask again, what are we talking about when we use the phrase “gay friendly?”
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YinYangMom
Guest
Other:
Keep my kids in school, use the opportunities to educate them and the teachers/administration about the teachings of the church,
that the act is sinful, not the person…
that the person deserves respect and dignity…
that we are called to help these people live in communion with us and God by living a chaste live…
that means my kids will need to be able to establish relationships with groups in school which discuss this topic…
that whenever the conversation arises with regard to church teaching, that my children are able to speak truthfully about Catholicism - in a way which inspires those struggling with this issue to learn more about being Catholic and gay.
And I would have my children keep COURAGE fliers with them so they can distribute them as needed.
I believe we are called to behave as Christ would - to invite these people into the Church to experience the love of God so that they will long for it enough to re-evaluate their options. Help them to learn how to bear their cross, to live chaste lives. Just because they are afflicted with homosexuality they do not have to act on that tendency. It doesn’t mean they can’t be a follower of Christ.
There are more Christians out there condemning these people than there are guiding them and I think that’s a shame. It’s so much easier to point out peoples’ faults than it is to help them overcome them. Certainly we Catholics should be able to rise to the challenge of keeping Christ’s flock together.
Keep my kids in school, use the opportunities to educate them and the teachers/administration about the teachings of the church,
that the act is sinful, not the person…
that the person deserves respect and dignity…
that we are called to help these people live in communion with us and God by living a chaste live…
that means my kids will need to be able to establish relationships with groups in school which discuss this topic…
that whenever the conversation arises with regard to church teaching, that my children are able to speak truthfully about Catholicism - in a way which inspires those struggling with this issue to learn more about being Catholic and gay.
And I would have my children keep COURAGE fliers with them so they can distribute them as needed.
I believe we are called to behave as Christ would - to invite these people into the Church to experience the love of God so that they will long for it enough to re-evaluate their options. Help them to learn how to bear their cross, to live chaste lives. Just because they are afflicted with homosexuality they do not have to act on that tendency. It doesn’t mean they can’t be a follower of Christ.
There are more Christians out there condemning these people than there are guiding them and I think that’s a shame. It’s so much easier to point out peoples’ faults than it is to help them overcome them. Certainly we Catholics should be able to rise to the challenge of keeping Christ’s flock together.
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surfinpure
Guest
Other Eric:
That’s a great question. I think, in this case we can love the sinner, meaning not use hateful labels like “faggot,” not mock gays or say or do things expressly harmful to them. We can welcome them into conversation about our faith, and when the opportunity presents itself, lay out the Church’s view of homosexuality with love, not with malice. It is right to fear for their souls, but it is wrong to vocally condemn them to hell.
So far so good?
As far as “hating the sin” goes, this means we don’t teach kids “it’s okay if you want to grow up and be like this.” We don’t make an effort to make homosexuality seem “normal” or “natural.” We don’t teach kids that some people are just “born this way and they can’t help it.” There’s sort of a fine line between tolerance and approval.
I think of Jesus and the adulteress; he didn’t condemn her or cast stones … but he DID tell her “Go and sin no more.” He didn’t say, “It doesn’t matter what you do in private as long as you love me” or “You can’t help that you were born that way.” He set the best example we could ever hope for. We are to “speak the truth in love.”
Is this about right?
Hi, Eric.
That’s a great question. I think, in this case we can love the sinner, meaning not use hateful labels like “faggot,” not mock gays or say or do things expressly harmful to them. We can welcome them into conversation about our faith, and when the opportunity presents itself, lay out the Church’s view of homosexuality with love, not with malice. It is right to fear for their souls, but it is wrong to vocally condemn them to hell.So far so good?
As far as “hating the sin” goes, this means we don’t teach kids “it’s okay if you want to grow up and be like this.” We don’t make an effort to make homosexuality seem “normal” or “natural.” We don’t teach kids that some people are just “born this way and they can’t help it.” There’s sort of a fine line between tolerance and approval.
I think of Jesus and the adulteress; he didn’t condemn her or cast stones … but he DID tell her “Go and sin no more.” He didn’t say, “It doesn’t matter what you do in private as long as you love me” or “You can’t help that you were born that way.” He set the best example we could ever hope for. We are to “speak the truth in love.”
Is this about right?
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Trelow
Guest
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Other_Eric
Guest
Hi surf(name removed by moderator)ure!
I like your answer, certainly more than most on this forum. I even thought about using one of those animated smiley faces but I declined because I hate them so.
I think your approach may still be open to some valid criticism, however. Frequent use of the word “faggot,” for instance, could credibly be argued to be a rational way in which the concept that “it’s not okay if you want to grow up and be like this” is emphasized to the student body.
I openly admit that I have my own prejudices in this regard, so I will not push this issue any further. I will simply leave you with the knowledge that I find your position, as stated, most satisfactory.
I like your answer, certainly more than most on this forum. I even thought about using one of those animated smiley faces but I declined because I hate them so.
I think your approach may still be open to some valid criticism, however. Frequent use of the word “faggot,” for instance, could credibly be argued to be a rational way in which the concept that “it’s not okay if you want to grow up and be like this” is emphasized to the student body.
I openly admit that I have my own prejudices in this regard, so I will not push this issue any further. I will simply leave you with the knowledge that I find your position, as stated, most satisfactory.
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Binney
Guest
Did you read this thread/news item about some people fighting back in schools?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=49474
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=49474
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Crystalline
Guest
I have a minor question/clarification, because I’m not entirely sure about Church teachings here- as far as I’m aware, the church teaches as follows-
From my admittedly minor (compared to others) knowledge of Catholic teachings, I can’t see where the Church would have a problem with that.
- Homosexual acts are wrong.
- However, being attracted to the same sex is not intrinsically evil. It’s the acts, not the attraction.
- This is why those Catholics who identify as homosexual are supposed to be drawn to chastity.
From my admittedly minor (compared to others) knowledge of Catholic teachings, I can’t see where the Church would have a problem with that.
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OriginalJS
Guest
A little blunt but on point. Complaining about 'gay friendly schools" now is tardy. I have no statistics, but surmise that the great majority of homosexual priests came up through Catholic schools, colleges and seminaries. “Gay friendly” schools is just a small part of the difficulty here.
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fix
Guest
I read the site. It really beyond comprehension that the Vatican, or the bishop, have not done something.
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