Gay Friends

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Penny Plain:
For someone who knows nothing about the situation, you seem to know a lot about the situation. Leaping to bad conclusions is uncharitable, to say the least.
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I don’t know anything about the situation other than what was implied in the first post. And I am not leaping to conclusions… I was merely trying to address your question of " I am never sure what “dating” means. If they are not having sex, are they doing anything wrong?". I was simply trying to point out that a dating couple can be unchaste even if they are not having intercourse. Sorry if I was unclear.

And yes, Tom, there were an awful lot of assumptions in my post…but it was to try and make the above point, NOT to say exactly what the gay couple in question (if they are even gay) are or are not doing.

And no, a priest or nun would not be dating. If I implied that, I am sorry. I guess my points did not come across as well as they did in my head, lol. And by kissing I meant deep kissing with tongue… I guess I should have specified that I was not talking about a chaste kiss but rather the type that could ignite passions and quickly get out of hand.

Finella
 
Since Pio was asking what to do, my response is to make sure you know the facts prior to taking any action. The original post doesn’t say how he knows they are homosexual, is it rumor? Did one of them tell him? Before doing anything find out the facts. Perhaps he knows the facts and was embarrassed to tell them, I really don’t know.
If they are in fact homosexual, then again, are they dating? Is this a fact or a rumor? Don’t know!
As I said in my post, too many unknowns to give advice.
 
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Tom:
Since Pio was asking what to do, my response is to make sure you know the facts prior to taking any action. The original post doesn’t say how he knows they are homosexual, is it rumor? Did one of them tell him? Before doing anything find out the facts. Perhaps he knows the facts and was embarrassed to tell them, I really don’t know.
If they are in fact homosexual, then again, are they dating? Is this a fact or a rumor? Don’t know!
As I said in my post, too many unknowns to give advice.
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Gee, Tom, do you require that level of exactitude in your life to make decisions? I hope not or you would be a very indecisive person.

The mere fact that Pio posted his request for advise shows that he knows the situation to be what he says it is. Most of us need to act on situations based on a fair assessment of the facts available at that time. Should he wait until someone makes a homosexual pass at him before he puts some distance from them? Does he need to see them in the act? It is not like we are telling him to denounce them based on his suspicion or to spread rumors about them. But if he is uncomfortable with the way it seems to him based on what he has seen, he has every right (morally and legally) to cool his friendship with them.
 
La Chiara:
Gee, Tom, do you require that level of exactitude in your life to make decisions? I hope not or you would be a very indecisive person.
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Yes, actually I do require facts prior to making decisions. As a professional pilot, if I have an indication of an engine fire, I cross check my other instruments to verify PRIOR to shutting down the engine. My passengers expect this. No, I’m not indecisive. I require the facts prior to giving advice. Attempting to verify facts as such is prudent. If he were to act on advice and later find his assumptions were incorrect people could be hurt and friendships could be destroyed. Is there some urgency in this matter that makes an instant decision necessary? If he shares his thoughts with others and begins rumors about these people being homosexuals and in fact they are not don’t you feel they would be slighted? Isn’t it sinful to spread false rumors? All I am trying to establish is the facts.
La Chiara:
The mere fact that Pio posted his request for advise shows that he knows the situation to be what he says it is. Most of us need to act on situations based on a fair assessment of the facts available at that time.
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A fair assessment, I agree. So if someone were to tell you that I was a homosexual, and you spread this rumor, and it proves to be false, tell me, how do you “undo” the damage?
 
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Tom:
Yes, actually I do require facts prior to making decisions. As a professional pilot, if I have an indication of an engine fire, I cross check my other instruments to verify PRIOR to shutting down the engine. My passengers expect this. No, I’m not indecisive. I require the facts prior to giving advice. Attempting to verify facts as such is prudent. If he were to act on advice and later find his assumptions were incorrect people could be hurt and friendships could be destroyed. Is there some urgency in this matter that makes an instant decision necessary? If he shares his thoughts with others and begins rumors about these people being homosexuals and in fact they are not don’t you feel they would be slighted? Isn’t it sinful to spread false rumors? All I am trying to establish is the facts.
A fair assessment, I agree. So if someone were to tell you that I was a homosexual, and you spread this rumor, and it proves to be false, tell me, how do you “undo” the damage?
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But Tom, no one is talking about spreading rumors. Why do you assume (in the total absence of any posts to that effect and despite our protestions) that we are encouraging and advising the spreading of rumors?
 
You’re dealing with peoples reputations here, not some abstract concept. Make sure of the facts prior to giving advice.
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Tom:
Is this a known fact or just your assumption since they are “dating”? Are they are sharing the knowledge of their sexual activity with you?
There’s really not enough info here. Is all of this true? Was it from them, or did you hear it from someone else?
What exactly are they doing? Please don’t “assume” you know what they are doing.
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Sorry, I see nothing wrong with verifying and not assuming. As I said there is not enough information for me to give advice. You seem to feel you have all the information you need go for it, give all your advice.
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Tom:
Since Pio was asking what to do, my response is to make sure you know the facts prior to taking any action. The original post doesn’t say how he knows they are homosexual, is it rumor? Did one of them tell him? Before doing anything find out the facts. Perhaps he knows the facts and was embarrassed to tell them, I really don’t know.
If they are in fact homosexual, then again, are they dating? Is this a fact or a rumor? Don’t know! As I said in my post, too many unknowns to give advice.
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To clear things up:

Yes, I know they are homosexuals, one of them told me.

I know they are dating, one of them told me. He didn’t give me a definition of “dating” though–so I don’t know how far it is going.

in terms of shacking up I meant this: Imagine that it was a heterosexual couple. Living in the same room would be equivalent to “shacking up” in my book. Regardless of them having sexual relations or not, it is a huge temptation living with your boyfriend or girlfriend.

I am not in college–I’m a senior in highschool. These two have been friends of mine since my freshman year. They currently live in a different town, so I rarely get to speak to them in person at the moment.

As far as spreading rumors goes—They have asked me (and some of my other friends) not to tell anybody about them, precisely because of the fear of rumors. (I don’t count what I’m doing here as spreading rumors because none of you could possibly know who I am talking about, and I need advice on this.)

I want them to know that I don’t support what they are doing (I don’t believe a homosexual lifestyle, regardless of how far they have gone with it, is healthy. However, I don’t want to cut them out of my life as these people really are my friends.

Please, pray for them, and me, and any more advice you can give would be appreciated.

Benedictus–
Thank you for the exerpt from the Baltimore Catechism. That helps alot.
-PM
 
Pio,

I’m a member of Courage (couragerc.net). Courage, an apostolate of the Roman Catholic Church, ministers to those with same-sex attractions to help them lead chaste lives in accordance with the Church’s teachings on human sexuality.

It’s a very good thing to want to be a good friend to them. If your prayer life is good and you’re staying close to Jesus and the sacraments, then you shouldn’t be in any danger by being their friend. However, if you find it damaging your spiritual life, then you might want distance yourself from them. It would depend on your relationship with them how you help them. That quote from the Baltimore Catechism another poster sent is a great guide. On the other hand, if rebuking them may do more harm than good, or you really don’t have that kind of influence on them, then they can learn from your example. If you’re leading a good Christian life and remaining their friend, one day one of them is bound to want what you have and ask you how to have it himself. You have to make that call.

Either way, you will have to make known your views that homosexual acts are disordered and sinful and that as their friend you cannot affirm them in something that is sinful, deadly, and will eventualy cause them years of misery. If you visit the site for Courage (www.couragerc.net) you will find a lot of good information. There is also a sister group Encourage for family and friends of people with same sex attraction. Depending on your relationship with these guys and how much effort you want to spend, you might see if there is an Encourage group in your area that can help you. Whatever your level of involvement, if you do decide to continue the friendship, read the information on that site, or whenever you tell them your views, you’re going to get stuck for a good answer.

Simply put, it’s sinful for them to have sex for the same reason it would be sinful for you to have sex. Because you are not married. Some might debate that homosexual sex is worse than unmarried hetersexual sex, but that really doesn’t matter. It’s all mortal sin. Since you also, presumably, struggle with temptations of the flesh and living a chaste life, you might be able to support them in chastity more than you think at first by sharing your stuggles, success, what works for you, what doesn’t, that sort of thing.

About the “shacking up.” It would be wrong for you to say to other people that they were unchaste as that would be spreading rumors. Living together doesn’t mean they are unchaste. Even if you knew they were unchaste, you couldn’t tell other people without a good reason. That being said, from what you’ve told me, it’s safe to assume, as long as you keep it between you and them, that they are being unchaste. I’ve been in that lifestyle and “dating” means “doing it”. Remain aware that you could be wrong and when the topic comes up, ask them first. But in an “it takes one to know one” kind of way, I can tell you the high likelyhood is that they’re doing it.
 
Some posters have said to distance yourself from them and get good Christian friends. Definitly get good Christian friends. We can’t walk with Him alone. But like I said before, you don’t have to leave them behind unless it starts to damage you. Tell them that you don’t want them to be “affectionate” around you and that you don’t want to go with them to the gay bars or clubs or parites. They may hold your friendship hostage and accuse you of not being a good friend for that. In that case, let them go and pray hard for them. Or, they may respect your position and your friendship can grow.

One poster said that it’s none of your business and it’s their life and their decision. Well, if I’m doing something that is wrong, deadly, and will likely lead me to hell, then I hope I have friends who are good enough to tell me about it and be willing to help me stop. I pray that if I’m in a sinful situation like that, that my friends will make it their business.

There were a lot of posts arguing that you should get proof before you do something. Like I said before, it’s a safe assumption, but take it to them first. Even if their not having sex, the fact that they identify themselves as homosexuals and say they are dating and living together is a big red flag for serious, serious danger.

Get some info from www.couragerc.org and pray about what level of involvement and in what ways God wants to use you to minister to them. Let me know if I can be of any help.

Pax et bonum
 
Luke,

Thank you very much for your response. You have an insight into the situation that helps me a great deal.

-Pio Magnus
 
I think since u are friends with them, u need to support their choice. U can voice ur oppition about what they are doing, but it is thier choice in the end. u may not like what they do, but if u are really there friend then u need to respect what they feel is right for them.
 
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PioMagnus:
Hello,

I have two friends who are in college, who live in the same dorm room. One is a Catholic, and one is an athiest.

Recently I found out that they are homosexuals, and that they are dating. Not only that, but since they live in the same room, in essence they are “shacking up” too.

I want to be there for my friends, but I can’t support what they are doing. Do you guys have any suggestions about how to handle this situation?

Thank you for any help,

PioMagnus
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If you truly care for these people, their sexuality shouldn’t matter to you. Its your choice, but what they do behind closed doors wouldn’t make a difference to me.
 
Senator Kerry:
If you truly care for these people, their sexuality shouldn’t matter to you. Its your choice, but what they do behind closed doors wouldn’t make a difference to me.
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No, it shouldn’t matter, but you should care about their Salvation.!!! Don’t you all think so?
 
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nolai:
I think since u are friends with them, u need to support their choice. U can voice ur oppition about what they are doing, but it is thier choice in the end. u may not like what they do, but if u are really there friend then u need to respect what they feel is right for them.
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If someone was your friend, you would not support their decision to take cocaine every day even if they felt is was right for them. You might continue to support them, but not the decision that will destroy their life and their soul. You can respect the fact that they feel it is right for them, but if you support that decision, you’re supporting their death.
Mother Theresa:
A true friend will lead you to Christ.
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I’m not comparing homosexuality with useing cocain. They aren’t the same thing. I am using an analogy make a point.
Senator Kerry:
If you truly care for these people, their sexuality shouldn’t matter to you. Its your choice, but what they do behind closed doors wouldn’t make a difference to me.
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That’s half right. Their sexuality should not matter to you. It doesn’t matter to Jesus; He loves everyone, and it’s because He loves us that He doesn’t want us to sin. But, if you are a friend, then you should be concerned if your friend is doing something wrong. Again, I’m not about to compare these two things; I’m about to make an analogy. If your friend was beating his wife behind closed doors, that would matter to you.
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sparkle:
No, it shouldn’t matter, but you should care about their Salvation.!!! Don’t you all think so?
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Amen. Jesus cares about thier salvation, so we should also.

Pax et bonum
 
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FightingFat:
I don’t think it’s any of your business what they are getting up to in the privacy of their own room.
If you are concerned for their souls, pray for them and support them as much as you can.
Their life, their decision.
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It is part of the problem when they let you know they are sinning – especially the one who is Catholic – our bar for behavior is higher since we have can’t claim invincible ignorance very often. One is concerned for souls, but being able to apply the best medicine, so to speak, is most efficacious. It is one the acts of mercy to instruct the ignorant. That makes is a Christian duty.

No need for Piomagnus (btw, I love the orgs you are in!) to be nasty and rude, but I know that my sister-in-law threw out the man who loves her dearly because she has decided she is lesbian. I don’t share help for eczema with her – what good would that do? I have tried to connect her with women who have left the lesbian lifestyle and lead a typical-- and gratefully so – life now.

We can’t just bury our heads. Of course, you are openly anti-Catholic, so any Catholic concept may seem ludicrious to you. You can be proud though to live in England where more Catholics were killed just for being Catholic during the early days of Anglicanism than anything we did during the crusades.
 
PioMagnus said:
Hello,

I have two friends who are in college, who live in the same dorm room. One is a Catholic, and one is an athiest.

Recently I found out that they are homosexuals, and that they are dating. Not only that, but since they live in the same room, in essence they are “shacking up” too.

I want to be there for my friends, but I can’t support what they are doing. Do you guys have any suggestions about how to handle this situation?

Thank you for any help,

PioMagnus
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Pray for them, offer Masses for them, treat them with love and respect, and encourage them to embrace spiritual friendship out of love for God and one another.

spiritualfriendship.org/2015/12/09/what-is-spiritual-friendship-a-basic-primer/
 
Timidity said:
I’m going to disagree with the majority here, who seem to be saying “flee from them!” And here’s why:

I was raised marginally Catholic. At some point in my early adult life I decided that I was an atheist, and I lived my life accordingly. While I felt that anyone had the right to believe what they wanted, I had a dislike for those in-your-face Bible-thumpers. it worked out okay, though, because they didn’t really want anything to do with me.

Eventually I had a close friend who was a deeply convicted Christian. His mere presence was a silent evangelization. They way he lived his life. The way that he would share his struggles with temptation. He never preached to me, but he never gave in on his morals, either. Eventually, when I had questions about the faith, I knew that I could ask him.

That friend, just by being my friend, had a lot to do with my return to Christ.

So I say, stay in your friend’s life. Lay the foundation for his repentence.

But… never give in on your principles! If he brings up his lifestyle, you have to say that it’s wrong! If he asks you to support it with some word or action, you can not.

Also, you do need to watch out for yourself. If he becomes a corrupting influence on your life, then, yes, you should end it. But if your faith is strong enough, be an example. Someday maybe he’ll be posting about how your example saved him!
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Yes

I have known Christians when I was an atheist and living a sinful life, who have shown me the truth without them saying a word to me. All they did was live the truth. Their actions spoke to me more eloquently than verbal reproach and Bible thumping.

Oops, saw the date. Sorry
 
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