Gay Friends?

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stayathomemommy

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So in the past few years I have had a family member “come out” and befriended a fellow mother who it turns out has a life partner and are raising two children. I have had conflicting feelings because I odviously love my sister and I also think this mother is nice and we enjoy talking about our kids and so on. If you believe in Church teachings and are against the gay lifestyle (which i am) then is it wrong to socialize with a person living that lifestyle??? I would never ignore my sister but i wont bring my children to stay the night at her house where she lives with her girlfriend. And I also wont be having he type of friendship with this Mother where our families do barbaques or anything. We just meet up at La Leche League and i offered to watch her son while she is at the hospital having her baby.

What does everyone think of these situations??
 
I would think strong relationships with people in advanced states of sin would produce apathy toward sinful behavior, unless one is devout and thus quite strong in her convictions. Bad company can corrupt good character, you know. Of course, Christ ate with sinners, so being friends with those people is (I would think) permissible. I would be wary about it, though; the relationships might be difficult for your faith in both foreseen and unforeseen ways. Even if you are strong enough in your faith to have it not produce an effect on you, it is not clear how this might change your children’s perception of sin.
 
Wow! I actually have almost the same situation! My sister is living with her girlfriend who is raising two boys. I love my sister but do not approve of her lifestyle choice (the church teaches it’s not sinful to have homosexual tendencies, but it’s sinful to act on them). We don’t really discuss it. But I think she knows I believe it’s wrong.

So far, my two young kids (almost 4 and almost 2) don’t know anything. I still don’t know how I should handle it when they are old enough to notice that Auntie likes other women.

As for wondering if you should socialize with them, that’s a tough one. I would ask your priest or email the apologetics forum.

I think nobeerinheaven has good points. On the one hand, you don’t want you or your children around such an obvious act of sin. But who are we to judge? We all sin. Also, I think since we are both talking about our sister, it makes things complicated! If you were talking about just a friend, I would say somewhat distance yourself. But she’s family. Tough one.

Since I am in the same boat, I can’t give much advice! Sorry! But I just wanted to let you know that I understand your situation.

I’ll pray for you and your family!
 
I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong with being friends with a gay person. The catch is that you have to be sure you do not compromise your own values, imply that you approve of the lifestyle, or allow the friendship to influence your own children’s beliefs about sexual morality in a negative way. I think there are people who would do a fine job of loving the sinner, hating the sin, and maintaining the friendship. But I imagine it to be a tricky thing, and I know I would have a very hard time with it. For one thing, there are not alot of people who would want to remain friends with a person who strongly disapproved of so many of their life choices. For another, the more examples of sinful behavior that a child witnesses, the more that behavior is normalized - even if the parents eventually (when the children are old enough to understand the details) teaches them that homosexual activity is wrong. And third, it IS really hard to criticize your friends, to let them know that you believe their lifestyle is sinful - takes a lot of guts and alot of diplomacy. But we ARE called to be witnesses to others, so if you can be a good “image of God” to that person" then that is a good thing.

It might be easier with family, because you already have a relationship with your sister - hopefully she will understand your love for her despite your disapproval of her lifestyle. But I do think the best way to have a real relationship with the gay person is to be completely honest with them about your beliefs, your need to look after the morality of your children as the highest priority. If you understand that your friendship has to have certain boundaries, then for it to be a real friendship the other person has to understand that as well. If it all is in the open, then you might be able to have a good relationship with that person. As I said before, I don’t know if I’d be up to that task. But if you are, God bless you for being a good Christian witness.
 
I don’t have any particular gay friends, but I have friends who do live materially mortally sinful lives. If you are strong enough not to be seduced or more approving of sinful behavior, then I’d say go ahead and be friends…your example is something others likely need. I certainly hope I am that example for them. 😦

But I would certainly understand someone who may disagree with me.
 
This is so hard.

How DO you love the sinner and hate the sin?

To love your sister is natural. To participate in her life shows her that a Christian loves her. But, man, what does that mean? I can’t see a long term close relationship built on “I love you but think you are an unrepentant sinner”
 
This is so hard.

How DO you love the sinner and hate the sin?

To love your sister is natural. To participate in her life shows her that a Christian loves her. But, man, what does that mean? I can’t see a long term close relationship built on “I love you but think you are an unrepentant sinner”
 
I have a cousin that is living with her partner and has children (another topic). I am strongly against this behavior, but love my cousin. We grew up together. My cousin knows my feelings on the subject and doesn’t try to change my views. I also have children. We don’t see her much because we live in different states, but when we would visit other family members, she would be there. My children only knew of her partner as her “friend.” As my oldest got older, she was able to figure it out. She asked me about it and I was honest. I did explain that it was wrong and why it is wrong. She agreed with me.

However, to answer your concerns:

God does tell us to love. His Son IS/WAS a true christian example of being with sinners all of the time. Hello, we are all sinners!!! Yes, you should stay friends with them. That doesn’t mean you have to approve of their behavior or be with them in a conflicting situation. Remember to cast the stone if you have not sinned. My point is…being around the gay friend/sister/brother or whoever does not mean you approve of the lifestyle… It doesn’t mean to shut off the ties either. If that was the case, we would all be alone right now, in isolation.

The situations should be monitored when it comes to your children, though. If you are at a family gathering and you know their intentions (not having a party to promote the lifestyle), then it may be ok to have your children around. Communication is a great tool. If you explain to your sister/friend your feelings and they care about you too, they will honor your wishes (i.e. not showing sexual affection around you or family or discussing their relationship). I would communicate this to my heterosexual friends/family members too. If you are not sure of the intentions, then maybe you should not attend or visit on such an occassion.

We should not feel guilty being a true christian by being friends with any sinner. It doesn’t mean you are delighting in their sin. You are showing brotherly love. If any situation makes you feel uncomfortable, then you could limit your visits and stay strong through other communications.

It seems that many people may say “stay away from them or cut ties.” That says to me, “you are weak and you will turn away from God” or “You will become confused and change your beliefs.” God also says that it doesn’t matter what goes inside you, it is what comes out of you that makes you corrupt (don’t quote me for exact, but you get the idea).

I hope I didn’t babble, but I had to really dig into my heart with my cousin. She actually sought out my approval and never received it. I know this hurt her so, but I am confident in my beliefs. I did assure her that I loved her and I always will.

Blessings,

Roo
 
nobeerinheaven said:
I would think strong relationships with people in advanced states of sin would produce apathy toward sinful behavior, unless one is devout and thus quite strong in her convictions. Bad company can corrupt good character, you know. Of course, Christ ate with sinners, so being friends with those people is (I would think) permissible. I would be wary about it, though; the relationships might be difficult for your faith in both foreseen and unforeseen ways. Even if you are strong enough in your faith to have it not produce an effect on you, it is not clear how this might change your children’s perception of sin.
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Jesus defines all sin as lack of love. What is unloving about a Gay love relationship? Who is the victim being sinned against?
 
ThyKingdomCome said:
I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong with being friends with a gay person. The catch is that you have to be sure you do not compromise your own values, imply that you approve of the lifestyle, or allow the friendship to influence your own children’s beliefs about sexual morality in a negative way. I think there are people who would do a fine job of loving the sinner, hating the sin, and maintaining the friendship. But I imagine it to be a tricky thing, and I know I would have a very hard time with it. For one thing, there are not alot of people who would want to remain friends with a person who strongly disapproved of so many of their life choices. For another, the more examples of sinful behavior that a child witnesses, the more that behavior is normalized - even if the parents eventually (when the children are old enough to understand the details) teaches them that homosexual activity is wrong. And third, it IS really hard to criticize your friends, to let them know that you believe their lifestyle is sinful - takes a lot of guts and alot of diplomacy. But we ARE called to be witnesses to others, so if you can be a good “image of God” to that person" then that is a good thing.

It might be easier with family, because you already have a relationship with your sister - hopefully she will understand your love for her despite your disapproval of her lifestyle. But I do think the best way to have a real relationship with the gay person is to be completely honest with them about your beliefs, your need to look after the morality of your children as the highest priority. If you understand that your friendship has to have certain boundaries, then for it to be a real friendship the other person has to understand that as well. If it all is in the open, then you might be able to have a good relationship with that person. As I said before, I don’t know if I’d be up to that task. But if you are, God bless you for being a good Christian witness.
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Jesus defines all sin as lack of love. What is unloving about a Gay love relationship? Who is the victim being sinned against?
 
Dear OP,

I emphasize with you very much. One of my best friends “came out” in college and has had several long-term girlfriends. She knows I am 100 percent Catholic and I do my best to always treat her with love and kindess. That being said, whenever we talk, I ask her about her life but avoid asking any questions about her girlfriend. When she talks about her, I listen, but I don`t respond, which I know does get on her nerves.

I also wont stay at my friends house when visiting because I don`t want to come across as approving of her choices. She is welcome to visit and stay at my house, by herself though. Her girlfriends are not welcome.

I pray for my friend, and I try to support her and encourage her. She is a fallen away Catholic and argues that God made her the way she is so it must be okay.

Long story short, I love my friend and try to maintain contact with her, but it is a more distant contact… I try to be there for her when she needs me, and let her know I love her regardless, but at the same time, I don`t support her unhealthy choices. (This goes the same with all of my friends).

I know is is a constant struggle to act charitably, without supporting their unhealthy choices. That being said, this friend was here for me when I made some stupid decisions, and now, it is my turn to be here for her. We can love the person, without approving of their decisions. Choosing to “live the lifestyle” is a sin, but so is premarital sex and other forms of unchastity . If I cut off all of my friends who were sinners, I would not have any left!

My bottom line is, my friend understands the Churchs teachings, she knows I believe in the Churchs teachings, and we leave it at that. It is not my place to judge her. But I also do not need to approve of her behavior, and I try to make sure my actions would never lead her to believe that I do.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
stayathomemommy said:
I would never ignore my sister but i wont bring my children to stay the night at her house where she lives with her girlfriend. And I also wont be having he type of friendship with this Mother where our families do barbaques or anything. We just meet up at La Leche League and i offered to watch her son while she is at the hospital having her baby.

What does everyone think of these situations??
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My sister is also a self described “lesbian” who has been living with her “partner” for 20 years. When I was raising my son I was far, far away from the Church (read: anti-Church!) and not only exposed him to my sis’s lifestyle (and many other homosexual friends in similar arrangements) but clearly imparted the message that “it’s all okay as long as the person is happy”. As a result, I now have a 28 year old son who believes gay marriage is a right, co-habitation is a wonderful alternative to marriage, sin is a myth and questions the existence of God. Granted, I re-enforced these concepts with my own heathen lifestyle while I was walking in darkness, but one should never underestimate the impact such ambiguity will have on children. It’s very difficult for young kids to understand and make the distinction between loving the sinner and hating the sin. This is one of the reasons why we see children who are raised by homosexuals so vigorously defending their parent’s lifestyle choices. They may know their folks are wrong, but they are torn between their love of mom or dad and their instinct that the behavior is unnatural.
 
Substitute another sin for homosexuality. How would you react to your sister or friend if they were unrepentant theives? If they were embezzeling from their employeers and flaunted their wealth? Yes, you could call the cops. But beyond that how would you react? What if they were alcoholics? drug addicts? having an extra-marital affair and bringing their boyfriend around?
 
thats a good question! The hard part is all those sins that you mentioned are illegal or thought by most of society to be immoral. Unfortunately, most of the world has been slowly desencitized to homosexuality and believes that lifestyle is OK. Even many Christians. If a friend or family member where cheating on his/her spouse i would have no problem telling them how wrong they were and encouraging them to stop right away! But when it comes to gay friends and family it is so much harder! I dont know why…I suppose i believe that their homosexuality was something they might possibly have been born with…a cross they have to bare…Its hard to tell them that you feel they should forever live a chaste life, and is it really my place?? I wouldnt feel comfortable saying anything of the sort.

I figure by loving my sister and being friends with another gay woman i know I am being an example of Christian love and hopefully they will see the light of Christ through me. If all Christians turned away from sinners then they would fall deeper into the sinful lifestyle and further away from Christ. By being their friend we are at least helping in a small way. Afterall on judgement day God may very well ask us “what did we do to bring those around us to Him?” and if we just turned away those lost souls we would have failed Him.

Thanks for all your imput.
 
I don’t pick and choose my friends. I love them all whether gay or straight. Jesus chose prostitutes and tax collectors as his friends. I feel comfortable today having gay and lesbian friends. But I don’t hang out exclusively with them. I simply don’t make any judgements whatsoever.
 
I suppose i believe that their homosexuality was something they might possibly have been born with…a cross they have to bare…Its hard to tell them that you feel they should forever live a chaste life, and is it really my place?? I wouldnt feel comfortable saying anything of the sort.
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The origin of homosexuality is irrelevent regarding the Catholic position. Everyone is born with a fallen nature and some level of disordered inclination. In my case, it is alcoholism. For some, it may be an inclination to steal or lie. It could be a predisposition to violent anger or depression. In all cases, the disorder should not be treated with indifference because the end result is harmful for the individual, either in this life or the next.
I figure by loving my sister and being friends with another gay woman i know I am being an example of Christian love and hopefully they will see the light of Christ through me.
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That’s great and it’s the most important thing we can do as Christians: walk the walk. However, you should not assume that family and friends will simply understand an unexpressed disapproval of their behavior. You stated yourself that our culture agressively promotes acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle so effectively that even Christians have begun falling for the lie. Unless you are clear, for both their sake and yours, that you are not in agreement with their behavior, you are perpetrating this ambuguity and confusion within the culture.
If all Christians turned away from sinners then they would fall deeper into the sinful lifestyle and further away from Christ. By being their friend we are at least helping in a small way. Afterall on judgement day God may very well ask us “what did we do to bring those around us to Him?” and if we just turned away those lost souls we would have failed Him.
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We are not expected to turn the sinner away. We are expected to speak the truth with love because ultimately, it is not the approval of others that we should be seeking nor should we be concerned about making them feel good about living in sin. And if God does ask the question “what did we do to bring those around to Him”, we should be able to answer that we spoke His truth in love and defended that truth because our love for Him should be our primary concern.
 
Do you still believe homosexuality is a sin? Well, Jesus defines sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12; Luke 6:31) . Paul then expanded this love definition in Romans 13:8-11 and Galatians 5:14. So what is sinful about a loving same-sex relationship? Who is the victim being unloved, hurt or sinned against?
Sin is basically disrespect for God and lack of love for self or others. We are to serve God and others lovingly or we serve Satan and death. That sums up all the laws and teachings of the prophets.
Man-to-man loving sex is OK. It is inherently a non-sin and non-crime.
If God wanted to condemn sex between men, couldn’t He have said “Man shall not lie with man” PERIOD. He tacked on the “…as with woman “ because He is offended by straight men imagining they are having sex with a woman as they unlovingly rape their prisoner, cellmate, tearoom contact, etc. (Leviticus 18:22)
There is no word for “homosexuality” in the Bible’s Hebrew and Greek source texts. Since the word “homosexual” was coined about 1865, it is not even in the King James Version. Any Bible using that word is a mistranslation. Instead the KJV and translations thereafter (Matthew’s 1549, Geneva 1560 and Tyndall 1536) condemn “sexual immorality” such as heterosexual male-male rape of Leviticus 18:22.
Code: 
Some other possibilities you should consider when obsessing about  Leviticus 18:22:
Does it prohibit only anal sex between two men?
Does it prohibit only pagan-temple sex between two men?
Does it prohibit sex only between two men in a woman's bed?
Does it allow oral sex between two men?
Does it allow sex between two women?
Does it condemn only pederasty with boys ( Martin Luther's Bibel -1545)

	Consider the attempted male gang rape at Lot's door .  For Sodom (and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:4-9),  God had already judged the cities for their selfishness toward the poor, pride, laziness, arrogance and general slothfulness. (Ezekiel 16:48-50)  That was enough for God to wipe them out.  Their  abominable attempt to rape God's angels confirmed His decision
Jesus defines sin as lack of love. What is unloving about homosexuality?

Note to closed-minded antagonists and homophones:
I could reduce my homophobic detractors to absurdity and show that their hostility is groundless. What would that prove? That they know how to hate. I could rebut every slander, clear up ever misconception and overcome every false opinion. But in the end (sic) I could not refute the intolerance and self-hatred.
Code: 
When judgmental Christians throw their next homo-free pot-luck supper, I have several recipes for crow.  Judging 10% of God's creation through errors in translation certainly will get some judgement from God, if for no other reason than ignorance and closed-mindedness.

About deciding to be Gay: what about the bad “decision” my cat made to be homosexual?  I hope the unlicensed psychologists running ex-Gay ministries have a “therapy” for her condition.
Do what God already told you - love one another! Don’t make Him come down here again!
 
Excellent advice! Especially the part about expressing the truth about the sinfulness of homsexual acts. What often happens though is that the sinners separate themselves from those who are sharing the truth. Even though there may be some bravado, it is natural that a guilty conscience will hide. But if we continue to support our friends/relatives in a quest to stop their sinful behavior (sexual or otherwise), we can hope for fruit.
blessedtoo said:
The origin of homosexuality is irrelevent regarding the Catholic position. Everyone is born with a fallen nature and some level of disordered inclination. In my case, it is alcoholism. For some, it may be an inclination to steal or lie. It could be a predisposition to violent anger or depression. In all cases, the disorder should not be treated with indifference because the end result is harmful for the individual, either in this life or the next.

That’s great and it’s the most important thing we can do as Christians: walk the walk. However, you should not assume that family and friends will simply understand an unexpressed disapproval of their behavior. You stated yourself that our culture agressively promotes acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle so effectively that even Christians have begun falling for the lie. Unless you are clear, for both their sake and yours, that you are not in agreement with their behavior, you are perpetrating this ambuguity and confusion within the culture.

We are not expected to turn the sinner away. We are expected to speak the truth with love because ultimately, it is not the approval of others that we should be seeking nor should we be concerned about making them feel good about living in sin. And if God does ask the question “what did we do to bring those around to Him”, we should be able to answer that we spoke His truth in love and defended that truth because our love for Him should be our primary concern.
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