Gay Friends?

[catechumen08]

What does everyone think of these situations??

Pray for them, and don’t ostracize them. Show them kindness, and show them the right way.

 

[nobeerinheaven]

So what is sinful about a loving same-sex relationship? Who is the victim being unloved, hurt or sinned against? Man-to-man loving sex is OK. It is inherently a non-sin and non-crime.

Mexjewel, the Catholic Church disagrees with both how you have defined sin and how you have applied that definition. This is not the place to debate the merits or demerits of the Church’s disagreement with you. I suggest you take it up in the Apologetics forum, where nonsense like this can be appropriately dismissed once and for all.

 

[Petergee]

I don’t pick and choose my friends. I love them all whether gay or straight. Jesus chose prostitutes and tax collectors as his friends. I feel comfortable today having gay and lesbian friends. But I don’t hang out exclusively with them. I simply don’t make any judgements whatsoever.

Then you are definitely not imitating Jesus, Who in no uncertain terms told the prostitutes to stop fornicating and the tax collectors to stop defrauding. When they did so and were sorry for their sins, He forgave them.

 

[goofyjim]

Then you are definitely not imitating Jesus, Who in no uncertain terms told the prostitutes to stop fornicating and the tax collectors to stop defrauding. When they did so and were sorry for their sins, He forgave them.

This is the same Jesus who told the Pharisees prostitutes and tax collectors are getting into the kingdom before you. And he hung out with them more than he hung out with the religious leaders of the time.

 

[mozier]

Do you still believe homosexuality is a sin? Well, Jesus defines sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12; Luke 6:31) . Paul then expanded this love definition in Romans 13:8-11 and Galatians 5:14. So what is sinful about a loving same-sex relationship? Who is the victim being unloved, hurt or sinned against?
Sin is basically disrespect for God and lack of love for self or others. We are to serve God and others lovingly or we serve Satan and death. That sums up all the laws and teachings of the prophets.
Man-to-man loving sex is OK. It is inherently a non-sin and non-crime.
If God wanted to condemn sex between men, couldn’t He have said “Man shall not lie with man” PERIOD. He tacked on the “…as with woman “ because He is offended by straight men imagining they are having sex with a woman as they unlovingly rape their prisoner, cellmate, tearoom contact, etc. (Leviticus 18:22)
There is no word for “homosexuality” in the Bible’s Hebrew and Greek source texts. Since the word “homosexual” was coined about 1865, it is not even in the King James Version. Any Bible using that word is a mistranslation. Instead the KJV and translations thereafter (Matthew’s 1549, Geneva 1560 and Tyndall 1536) condemn “sexual immorality” such as heterosexual male-male rape of Leviticus 18:22.

Some other possibilities you should consider when obsessing about Leviticus 18:22:
Does it prohibit only anal sex between two men?
Does it prohibit only pagan-temple sex between two men?
Does it prohibit sex only between two men in a woman's bed?
Does it allow oral sex between two men?
Does it allow sex between two women?
Does it condemn only pederasty with boys ( Martin Luther's Bibel -1545)

    Consider the attempted male gang rape at Lot's door . For Sodom (and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:4-9), God had already judged the cities for their selfishness toward the poor, pride, laziness, arrogance and general slothfulness. (Ezekiel 16:48-50) That was enough for God to wipe them out. Their abominable attempt to rape God's angels confirmed His decision

Jesus defines sin as lack of love. What is unloving about homosexuality?

Note to closed-minded antagonists and homophones:
I could reduce my homophobic detractors to absurdity and show that their hostility is groundless. What would that prove? That they know how to hate. I could rebut every slander, clear up ever misconception and overcome every false opinion. But in the end (sic) I could not refute the intolerance and self-hatred.

When judgmental Christians throw their next homo-free pot-luck supper, I have several recipes for crow. Judging 10% of God's creation through errors in translation certainly will get some judgement from God, if for no other reason than ignorance and closed-mindedness.

About deciding to be Gay: what about the bad “decision” my cat made to be homosexual? I hope the unlicensed psychologists running ex-Gay ministries have a “therapy” for her condition.

Do what God already told you - love one another! Don’t make Him come down here again!

I noticed that you left Romans Chapter 1 out of this.

 

[goofyjim]

I’ll decide who I hang out with, thank you very much.

 

[Petergee]

This is the same Jesus who told the Pharisees prostitutes and tax collectors are getting into the kingdom before you. And he hung out with them more than he hung out with the religious leaders of the time.

Yes, because the prostitutes and tax collectors were willing to admit they were sinners and repent of their sins; but the proud Pharisees refused to admit that they were sinners and needed to repent - just like the modern-day “Pharisees” who proclaim their “pride” in committing sodomy, and refuse to even admit that it’s a sin at all!

 

[goofyjim]

Yes, because the prostitutes and tax collectors were willing to admit they were sinners and repent of their sins; but the proud Pharisees refused to admit that they were sinners and needed to repent - just like the modern-day “Pharisees” who proclaim their “pride” in committing sodomy, and refuse to even admit that it’s a sin at all!

And you don’t think there is such a thing as “straight” pride (thank you Lord that I am not like this gay person over here)? I say again I will hang out with whoever I want to hang out with. I will not cast the first stone.

 

[Petergee]

And you don’t think there is such a thing as “straight” pride (thank you Lord that I am not like this gay person over here)?

You’re inventing a straw-man. Neither I nor anyone else here has suggested anything like the absurd assertion that only homosexuals can commit the sin of pride.

I say again I will hang out with whoever I want to hang out with.

Another strawman. No-one has suggested you can’t.

I will not cast the first stone.

And yet another straw-man. No-one has suggested attacking homosexuals.

 

[guanophore]

Do you still believe homosexuality is a sin? Well, Jesus defines sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12; Luke 6:31) . Paul then expanded this love definition in Romans 13:8-11 and Galatians 5:14. So what is sinful about a loving same-sex relationship? Who is the victim being unloved, hurt or sinned against?

There are three victims, minimal. The parties involved, and God.
There may be others as well.

Sin is basically disrespect for God and lack of love for self or others.  We are to serve God and others lovingly or we serve Satan and death.  That sums up all the laws and teachings of the prophets.  Man-to-man loving sex is OK.  It is inherently a non-sin and non-crime.

This is a modernist conclusion, and not based upon the teachings is Jesus.

If God wanted to condemn sex between men,  couldn't He have said  “Man shall not lie with man” PERIOD.   He tacked on the “....as with woman “  because He is offended by straight men imagining they are having sex with a woman as they unlovingly rape their prisoner, cellmate, tearoom contact, etc. (Leviticus 18:22)

It is a nice try at rationalizing.

There is no word for “homosexuality” in the  Bible's  Hebrew and Greek source texts.   Since the word “homosexual” was coined about 1865, it is not even in the King James Version. Any Bible using that word is a mistranslation.  Instead the KJV and translations thereafter  (Matthew's 1549, Geneva 1560 and Tyndall 1536)  condemn  “sexual immorality” such as heterosexual  male-male rape of Leviticus 18:22.

This is true. However, there are other ways that scripture uses to describe the events.

Some other possibilities you should consider when obsessing about  Leviticus 18:22:
Does it prohibit only anal sex between two men?
Does it prohibit only pagan-temple sex between two men?
Does it prohibit sex only between two men in a woman's bed?
Does it allow oral sex between two men?
Does it allow sex between two women?
Does it condemn only pederasty with boys ( Martin Luther's Bibel -1545)

Yes to all the above.

Consider the attempted male gang rape at Lot’s door . For Sodom (and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:4-9), God had already judged the cities for their selfishness toward the poor, pride, laziness, arrogance and general slothfulness. (Ezekiel 16:48-50) That was enough for God to wipe them out. Their abominable attempt to rape God’s angels confirmed His decision

Rape, a crime of hate and power, should not be confused with homosexual sex. Most same sex rapes occur by heterosexual persons.

Jesus defines sin as lack of love. What is unloving about homosexuality?

It disregards God’s plan for humankind.

Note to closed-minded antagonists and homophones:
I could reduce my homophobic detractors to absurdity and show that their hostility is groundless. What would that prove? That they know how to hate. I could rebut every slander, clear up ever misconception and overcome every false opinion. But in the end (sic) I could not refute the intolerance and self-hatred.

God did not make His laws out of hatred, but out of love. Notwithstanding, there are a great many hateful persons who claim to be “God-followers”

When judgmental Christians throw their next homo-free pot-luck supper, I have several recipes for crow. Judging 10% of God’s creation through errors in translation certainly will get some judgement from God, if for no other reason than ignorance and closed-mindedness.

It would be more dangerous to misrepresent what God has to say about sex.

About deciding to be Gay: what about the bad “decision” my cat made to be homosexual?  I hope the unlicensed psychologists running ex-Gay ministries have a “therapy” for her condition.

Personally, I think many people are born that way. The only choice they have is the same as any heterosexual person has, and that is about how they choose to live in chastity before God.

Do what God already told you - love one another! Don’t make Him come down here again!

Maranatha! May He come quickly! But, being loving towards others necessitates speaking the truth. The truth is that God designed humans to bond one woman to one man. Anything outside of that is outside his marital plan.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with befriending a gay person(s) but, there is something wrong with advocating or supporting the lifestyle. I don’t think that being friends with someone implies advocating of it. And, it can also serve as an opportunity to witness–if he/she is open to it.

 

[FishMonger]

I suppose one could treat them the same way one treats people who use artificial birth control.

 

[1ke]

So in the past few years I have had a family member “come out” and befriended a fellow mother who it turns out has a life partner and are raising two children. I have had conflicting feelings because I odviously love my sister and I also think this mother is nice and we enjoy talking about our kids and so on. If you believe in Church teachings and are against the gay lifestyle (which i am) then is it wrong to socialize with a person living that lifestyle??? I would never ignore my sister but i wont bring my children to stay the night at her house where she lives with her girlfriend. And I also wont be having he type of friendship with this Mother where our families do barbaques or anything. We just meet up at La Leche League and i offered to watch her son while she is at the hospital having her baby.

What does everyone think of these situations??

I think you have the right level of distance with them.

Of course, you will always love your sister, and as long as she knows the boundaries-- you’re good. With the other woman, be prepared to lose the friendship if it ever comes down to confronting her lifestyle or maintaining certain boundaries-- like no kids playing together or going to her house.

I think it’s hard to maintain friendships long term because their lifestyle is incompatible with the Faith.

 

[TC2]

How are we to reach the lost if we don’t go to them?
Trying to be a good example from afar is all well and good,
but it will not reach most people that need it.
I see nothing wrong in being casual friends, talking about
your similarities, spending time together when you are around
each other.
Most of the people you know are sinners, in one form or another. If we refuse to befriend those in sin, we would all be living in a vacuum.

Of course, if you are not strong in your faith, and feel threatened, then it may be best to limit your time with her.

 

[Mirdath]

Of course, you will always love your sister, and as long as she knows the boundaries-- you’re good. With the other woman, be prepared to lose the friendship if it ever comes down to confronting her lifestyle or maintaining certain boundaries-- like no kids playing together or going to her house.

You say that like the OP’s relationship with her sister’s spouse is entirely detached from her relationship with her sister. It doesn’t quite work that way.

And you’d keep kids from playing with their cousins because you disapprove of their aunts? Didn’t Jesus leave the whole ‘sins of the parents’ thing by the wayside?

The insularity many people here display when confronted with a relative or friend who reveals a specific inclination or interest the Church frowns upon is frightening. One would think that anyone who sinned in such a manner automatically contracted leprosy. You should be jumping up and down at the chance to lead more souls to the Christ by your living example, not handing us bells and telling us to shout ‘Unclean! Unclean!’ whenever you walk past.

 

[1ke]

You say that like the OP’s relationship with her sister’s spouse is entirely detached from her relationship with her sister. It doesn’t quite work that way.

And you’d keep kids from playing with their cousins because you disapprove of their aunts? Didn’t Jesus leave the whole ‘sins of the parents’ thing by the wayside?

.

Much ado about nothing.

I did not say I would prevent my children from seeing their cousins. I stated that about the OTHER woman the OP mentioned— the random acquaintance.

The relationship with the sister is more complex, and yes there do still need to be boundaries.

I would continue to witness to my sibling and encourage her to live according to the Faith.

 

[guanophore]

You say that like the OP’s relationship with her sister’s spouse is entirely detached from her relationship with her sister. It doesn’t quite work that way.

And you’d keep kids from playing with their cousins because you disapprove of their aunts? Didn’t Jesus leave the whole ‘sins of the parents’ thing by the wayside?

The insularity many people here display when confronted with a relative or friend who reveals a specific inclination or interest the Church frowns upon is frightening.

She is not talking about an inclination or an interest. She is talking about a demonstrated lifestyle that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Inclination and interest is a far cry from activity/behavior. I am interested in this topic, hence my participation on this thread. Committing myself to a lifestyle as is described here is another matter.

One would think that anyone who sinned in such a manner automatically contracted leprosy. You should be jumping up and down at the chance to lead more souls to the Christ by your living example, not handing us bells and telling us to shout ‘Unclean! Unclean!’ whenever you walk past.

As a matter of fact, you are right on with this analagy. Living in mortal sin is every bit as risky as leprosy ever was. As was recently pointed out in the homily on this topic, leprosy is a type and foreshadowing in the OT of mortal sin. It separates a person from their community,and brings death.

 

[Mirdath]

Much ado about nothing.

Yeah, you’re right – I read one potential interpretation of ‘other woman’ when you meant the other :doh2:

guanophore:

As a matter of fact, you are right on with this analagy. Living in mortal sin is every bit as risky as leprosy ever was. As was recently pointed out in the homily on this topic, leprosy is a type and foreshadowing in the OT of mortal sin. It separates a person from their community,and brings death.

So when faced with ‘spiritual lepers’, as I suppose one might call such people (nor can I recommend doing so, particularly to their faces), do you do as the Pharisees did and exile them and cut them out of your life; or do you do as Jesus did and go to them, minister to them, and heal them?

And why the intense focus on this particular mortal sin? Do you refuse to associate with former friends of yours who fornicate, who use artificial birth control, who get hammered at bars and clubs, or who regularly commit – to the point of making it a ‘lifestyle’ – other grave sins?

 

[sanctamaria17]

I myself have a lot of gay friends. In high school, a couple of my guy friends were gay and here, some of my teammates, one of whom is like a big sister to me, are gay. I love them for who they are but they know I don’t approve of the life style.

Honestly, to me it’s the same as dealing with someone who’s divorced and remarried w/out an annulment or living with someone (whom you’re in a romantic relationship with) outside of marriage. You can condemn the action yet love the person and pray for them. Who knows? You could be an example of Christ for them. In my youth group back home, they drilled it into our heads that we might be the only Jesus people ever see. Maybe you might be that for them.

 

[sanctamaria17]

You say that like the OP’s relationship with her sister’s spouse is entirely detached from her relationship with her sister. It doesn’t quite work that way.

And you’d keep kids from playing with their cousins because you disapprove of their aunts? Didn’t Jesus leave the whole ‘sins of the parents’ thing by the wayside?

The insularity many people here display when confronted with a relative or friend who reveals a specific inclination or interest the Church frowns upon is frightening. One would think that anyone who sinned in such a manner automatically contracted leprosy. You should be jumping up and down at the chance to lead more souls to the Christ by your living example, not handing us bells and telling us to shout ‘Unclean! Unclean!’ whenever you walk past.

Mirdath, I agree with your post. When Jesus said let the children come to me, He didn’t first ask if their parents were good Jews or if they were conceived lawfully and raised in a traditional family. He simply said, “Let them come to Me.” And He didn’t shun sinners either but welcomed them and ate and drank with them. He showed them love and they ended up repenting of their sin.

A lot of friends I know drink (underage, that is), have sex, etc. I’m not going to turn my back on them simply because they sin. You know what? I sin too. Maybe not those sins but I struggle with others. I pray for them and hope that one day, they could find what I’ve found.

We really need to start acting more Christlike and stop getting hung over on others’ sins. If I had kids and was in that situation, I would explain that they were nice people but that it’s not a proper way to live and that we should pray for them. However, the family would be welcome in my house and their kids would be welcome to play with mine. Maybe they’d get to know Jesus through our example