Gay, Lesbian Straight Educational Network Day of Silence - April 11th

[gam197]

Can’t you both be right?

Kids like standing up for causes they believe in and this is a national youth project. Kids can’t implement zero tolerance policies, but they can engage in an awareness raising demonstration. Likewise, administrators can’t do this, but they set the policies.

This does not at all take away from the need for strong anti bullying policies.

When this happened at my school it was because a new girl knew about it and told me and other students she thought would be interested. We went to the principal to tell him our plans and what the purpose was, he recommended that we find a faculty advisor and he stressed that we could not refuse to speak to teachers. We organized, spread the word, and the day went off well. It had nothing to do with policy.

I will say that the numbers don’t back up your assertion. Gay and lesbian youth do kill themselves at a disproportionately high rate. I guess I just don’t see anything wrong with tackling the bullying problem as a whole, and then putting a little more effort into trouble spots. At my school, gays got it the worst. Hands down, gay people were the most targeted and tormented, so we focused on that. At the school my sister in law taught at, it was Latino kids that were targeted the most, so they put extra efforts into reducing that specific problem. Later, she taught at an inner city school with serious racial tensions. Guess where they targeted some of their anti bullying efforts and resources? The fact is, if your school has a problem with specific bullying of a group, then it is good to seek to help those students, rather than to pretend that they don’t have it worse. It’s a better use of resources and serves the students better.

I wish it was that easy but it is not. Bullying is a major problem and there are limited funds.Please don’t say, we need more fund because there is only so much money.

We need to use the money wisely to address as many students as possible. Zero tolerance is instituted in most schools but there are so many issues and so many students. It is difficult.

 

[SMGS127]

I think that you may be correct in that transgenders have a high sucide rate yet the majority of population 95% are heterosexuals. That alone makes the rate of suicide highest among, I would say heterosexual girls. This cyber bullying in really out of control.

Yet little is done. We focus a whole day on a very small percentage of students when the majority(95%) get little or no help.

This day should be about all bullying- no one in particular. If they want to do private counseling for gay students, then maybe that is the way to go.

The way it is done is just activism, hoping that they can persuade the students that being gay is just another healthy life.No matter how many people think that it is OK, doesn’t matter because I think internally at a gut level, the gay students don’t feel that way.

Activism is working in that young people don’t care but that still has not solved the issue.
In fact, it may have aggravated it.

I think you mean that by total numbers, heterosexual girls would have the highest suicide rate. Rates are by percentages, so gay people have higher rates.

And first of all, the Day of Silence doesn’t use funds. It’s just a day for kids to participate in a protest against bullying. Kids not talking doesn’t cost the school any amount of money .

Second of all, again, the Day of Silence isn’t just about suicide, even though LGBT kids have the highest rates of suicide. It’s also about the physical violence and murder rates of LGBT bullying victims that are fairly unique. Most people who are bullied do not endure harsh violence or murder attempts. But LGBT people (and those others believe to be LGBT, even if untrue) face a sheer reality in high school and college that one wrong move or statement could lead you in the path of a bullet. The Day of Silence is about showing people what life would be like if all the LGBT kids in the school just disappeared from various deaths, whether suicide or violence. I would have literally no problem with Catholic schools instituting it.

 

[powerofk]

I think you mean that by total numbers, heterosexual girls would have the highest suicide rate. Rates are by percentages, so gay people have higher rates.

And first of all, the Day of Silence doesn’t use funds. It’s just a day for kids to participate in a protest against bullying. Kids not talking doesn’t cost the school any amount of money .

Second of all, again, the Day of Silence isn’t just about suicide, even though LGBT kids have the highest rates of suicide. It’s also about the physical violence and murder rates of LGBT bullying victims that are fairly unique. Most people who are bullied do not endure harsh violence or murder attempts. But LGBT people (and those others believe to be LGBT, even if untrue) face a sheer reality in high school and college that one wrong move or statement could lead you in the path of a bullet. The Day of Silence is about showing people what life would be like if all the LGBT kids in the school just disappeared from various deaths, whether suicide or violence. I would have literally no problem with Catholic schools instituting it.

I think where the problem comes is that some leaders in the homosexual community consider a person coming out against homosexual acts or even against gay “marriage” to be bullying. Plus, I don’t think it truly addresses the real reason why the LGBT community has higher rates of suicide. I think that has more to do with internal conflicts than with bullying.

 

[SMGS127]

Plus, I don’t think it truly addresses the real reason why the LGBT community has higher rates of suicide. I think that has more to do with internal conflicts than with bullying.

That’s highly unlikely. It’s hard for someone who isn’t gay to realize just how inundated a gay kid is by bigotry growing up. It has nothing to do with people’s stances on marriage. It has everything to do with the fact that “gay” and “f****t” are slung around on a daily basis in schools, that gay male kids (or those thought to be gay) are bullied for seeming weak, effeminate, or “gay-acting” (which also affects the masculine gay men), that lesbians (or those thought to be lesbians) get emotionally shunned and talked about by other girls. People talk about how “accepting” America is nowadays, but it really isn’t. It just appears to be. But that bigotry still runs rampant in our school system especially, as kids learn hateful behavior from their parents and spread it around their friend groups.

Trust me when I say that the suicide rate has nothing to do with religious guilt; it has everything to do with how poorly society treats gay kids. Consider how many gay kids (and especially transgender kids!!!) get thrown out of their homes as minors by bigoted parents! Surely that skews the numbers significantly too?

 

[Kamaduck]

I wish it was that easy but it is not. Bullying is a major problem and there are limited funds.Please don’t say, we need more fund because there is only so much money.

We need to use the money wisely to address as many students as possible. Zero tolerance is instituted in most schools but there are so many issues and so many students. It is difficult.

I don’t think students deciding to be silent for a day is costing the schools any money.

That alone makes the rate of suicide highest among, I would say heterosexual girls. This cyber bullying in really out of control.

Actually, men have higher suicide rates than women. LGBT individuals have higher suicide rates than either cis straight men or cis straight women. It would seem that cis heterosexual girls therefore have the lowest rates of suicide.

Sources: Suicide rates by gender, Suicide rates of LGB teens

 

[gam197]

I think you mean that by total numbers, heterosexual girls would have the highest suicide rate. Rates are by percentages, so gay people have higher rates.

And first of all, the Day of Silence doesn’t use funds. It’s just a day for kids to participate in a protest against bullying. Kids not talking doesn’t cost the school any amount of money .

Second of all, again, the Day of Silence isn’t just about suicide, even though LGBT kids have the highest rates of suicide. It’s also about the physical violence and murder rates of LGBT bullying victims that are fairly unique. Most people who are bullied do not endure harsh violence or murder attempts. But LGBT people (and those others believe to be LGBT, even if untrue) face a sheer reality in high school and college that one wrong move or statement could lead you in the path of a bullet. The Day of Silence is about showing people what life would be like if all the LGBT kids in the school just disappeared from various deaths, whether suicide or violence. I would have literally no problem with Catholic schools instituting it.

LGBT are a very tiny bit of the high school population. How does walking around with sign covering you mouth and be silence do anything for anyone?

It only calls attention that there are gay students and let’s all be gay friendly. It doesn’t address the real bullies. It promotes homosexually as healthy when we know that it is not. HIV is rampart.

This day is simply to promote that gay is OK.

Nothing at all to do with bullying. The bullies are there and will still strike out when they can.

If you really want to change things, get involved with heterosexual bullying, the 95% as well.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I wish it was that easy but it is not. Bullying is a major problem and there are limited funds.Please don’t say, we need more fund because there is only so much money.

We need to use the money wisely to address as many students as possible. Zero tolerance is instituted in most schools but there are so many issues and so many students. It is difficult.

Actually, it is that easy, and you don’t like it.

There are limited funds, homosexuals have higher rates of being bullied, so a non profit has developed a national youth day that is done in schools every year at zero cost. The school can do general anti bullying, and this event is one of many that outside organizations do for free. (Kind of like when non profits do anti smoking things in schools). This is a simple plan, and none of your objections about money or zero tolerance policies address it. You just don’t like that it deals with homosexuality. But students have every right to do it.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I think that you may be correct in that transgenders have a high sucide rate** yet the majority of population 95% are heterosexuals. That alone makes the rate of suicide highest among, I would say heterosexual girls.** This cyber bullying in really out of control.

Yet little is done. We focus a whole day on a very small percentage of students when the majority(95%) get little or no help.

This day should be about all bullying- no one in particular. If they want to do private counseling for gay students, then maybe that is the way to go.

The way it is done is just activism, hoping that they can persuade the students that being gay is just another healthy life.No matter how many people think that it is OK, doesn’t matter because I think internally at a gut level, the gay students don’t feel that way.

Activism is working in that young people don’t care but that still has not solved the issue.
In fact, it may have aggravated it.

You are totally wrong

1. Rate is a proportion not absolute numbers (this is a different rate from science which is speed over time
2. Adolescent males are far more likely to kill themselves than adolescent females, like 5x as much.
3. Then how about you start a general anti bullying day?

I wish it was that easy but it is not. Bullying is a major problem and there are limited funds.Please don’t say, we need more fund because there is only so much money.

We need to use the money wisely to address as many students as possible. Zero tolerance is instituted in most schools but there are so many issues and so many students. It is difficult.

Schools don’t really spend money on the Day of Silence, it’s mostly a student thing.

I think you mean that by total numbers, heterosexual girls would have the highest suicide rate. Rates are by percentages, so gay people have higher rates.

And first of all, the Day of Silence doesn’t use funds. It’s just a day for kids to participate in a protest against bullying. Kids not talking doesn’t cost the school any amount of money .

Second of all, again, the Day of Silence isn’t just about suicide, even though LGBT kids have the highest rates of suicide. It’s also about the physical violence and murder rates of LGBT bullying victims that are fairly unique. Most people who are bullied do not endure harsh violence or murder attempts. But LGBT people (and those others believe to be LGBT, even if untrue) face a sheer reality in high school and college that one wrong move or statement could lead you in the path of a bullet. The Day of Silence is about showing people what life would be like if all the LGBT kids in the school just disappeared from various deaths, whether suicide or violence. I would have literally no problem with Catholic schools instituting it.

Actually males are far more likely to kill themselves than females, females are more likely to make suicide attempts.

I think where the problem comes is that some leaders in the homosexual community consider a person coming out against homosexual acts or even against gay “marriage” to be bullying. Plus, I don’t think it truly addresses the real reason why the LGBT community has higher rates of suicide. I think that has more to do with internal conflicts than with bullying.

Merely stating opposition isn’t really a problem, constantly telling someone over and over again about how much God hates sodomy and how gay marriage will cause society to collapse does annoy them quite a bit.

I don’t think students deciding to be silent for a day is costing the schools any money.

Actually, men have higher suicide rates than women. LGBT individuals have higher suicide rates than either cis straight men or cis straight women. It would seem that cis heterosexual girls therefore have the lowest rates of suicide.

Sources: Suicide rates by gender, Suicide rates of LGB teens

The transgender suicide \ rate is absurd, 40%+ attempt suicide by 20 and that’s the ones still alive.

LGBT are a very tiny bit of the high school population. How does walking around with sign covering you mouth and be silence do anything for anyone?

It only calls attention that there are gay students and let’s all be gay friendly. It doesn’t address the real bullies. It promotes homosexually as healthy when we know that it is not. HIV is rampart.

This day is simply to promote that gay is OK.

Nothing at all to do with bullying. The bullies are there and will still strike out when they can.

If you really want to change things, get involved with heterosexual bullying, the 95% as well.

Lets compare the lesbian HIV rate to the heterosexual women HIV rate then talk about how much a higher HIV rate proves that God is punishing that group.

 

[Kamaduck]

LGBT are a very tiny bit of the high school population. How does walking around with sign covering you mouth and be silence do anything for anyone?

It only calls attention that there are gay students and let’s all be gay friendly. It doesn’t address the real bullies. It promotes homosexually as healthy when we know that it is not. HIV is rampart.

This day is simply to promote that gay is OK.

Nothing at all to do with bullying. The bullies are there and will still strike out when they can.

If you really want to change things, get involved with heterosexual bullying, the 95% as well.

This is so wrong.

Nobody is bullied for being heterosexual. They’re bullied for being LGBT, or overweight, or ugly, or disabled, or autistic, or awkward, or poor, or weak, or a racial minority. They’re bullied because they don’t fit in. They’re bullied because they are in the minority.

In other words, if we don’t care about minorities, then we don’t care about kids who are being bullied. Period.

 

[SMGS127]

Actually males are far more likely to kill themselves than females, females are more likely to make suicide attempts.

My bad, I meant to include the word “attempts” in my post. Obviously girls use less violent methods, and are thus (very fortunately) much less effective in their attempts.

 

[Rin]

1. Then how about you start a general anti bullying day?

:clapping:

I see a whole lot of attacking programs meant to solve a problem, mainly due to the ideological bias of the posters, but very few who also say they’re involved in such more general programs.

Perhaps this is because those who are involved in general anti-bullying work appreciate any and all anti-bullying efforts, even when focused on smaller groups?

In addition, while LGB and T people may make up a small percentage of the general population, my gut feeling tells me they make up a much larger percentage (if not the majority) of the bullied population. And then if you add those who are bullied because they are perceived as gay or transgender without actually being so, the group is even larger. Programs like these will benefit both groups.

Being against efforts to counter such bullying, abuse, violence, rape and murder (the two latter being the effect of the acceptance of bullying in school) because of one’s ideology (note ideology - the Church is pretty clear that mistreatment of these groups is to be fought) kind of sickens me. It gives fear of some “agenda” prominence above the care of actual human beings. It is anything but Catholic.

Such programs should be wholeheartedly welcomed in Catholic schools; fighting against unjust discrimination and bullying of LGB and T individuals is not incompatible with orthodox, Catholic teaching about sexuality. Just as specific anti-bullying programs do not exclude general ones. They’re false dichotomies.

My bad, I meant to include the word “attempts” in my post. Obviously girls use less violent methods, and are thus (very fortunately) much less effective in their attempts.

In addition, I think girls are more prone to express their need for help through suicide “attempts” which are not intended to succeed (parasuicide). In addition, women have a higher occurrence of non-lethal self injury (e.g. cutting), which sometimes may be seen as a suicide attempt by hospital staff. Sadly, both parasuicide and cutting may go horribly wrong, which is why I think many suicides in women are accidents.

Men, on the other hand, are generally less prone to express such feelings and need for help at all, and hence, when they attempt suicide, they’re at the point when they actually intend to succeed. Which explains the high suicide attempt rate in women, as opposed to the high suicide rate in men. As you say, men also use more violent methods, but from what I’ve read, this is just as much due to determination as to gender differences.

 

[gam197]

Actually, it is that easy, and you don’t like it.

There are limited funds, homosexuals have higher rates of being bullied, so a non profit has developed a national youth day that is done in schools every year at zero cost. The school can do general anti bullying, and this event is one of many that outside organizations do for free. (Kind of like when non profits do anti smoking things in schools). This is a simple plan, and none of your objections about money or zero tolerance policies address it. You just don’t like that it deals with homosexuality. But students have every right to do it.

I am nt sure that homosexuals have a higher rate. In saying that I am not saying that they don’t get bully a lot. They do.

What. I have nothing against dealing with homosexual bullying I don’t think anyone should be bully. To me it should be a crime.

 

[gam197]

You are totally wrong

1. Rate is a proportion not absolute numbers (this is a different rate from science which is speed over time
2. Adolescent males are far more likely to kill themselves than adolescent females, like 5x as much.
3. Then how about you start a general anti bullying day?

Schools don’t really spend money on the Day of Silence, it’s mostly a student thing.

Actually males are far more likely to kill themselves than females, females are more likely to make suicide attempts.

Merely stating opposition isn’t really a problem, constantly telling someone over and over again about how much God hates sodomy and how gay marriage will cause society to collapse does annoy them quite a bit.

The transgender suicide \ rate is absurd, 40%+ attempt suicide by 20 and that’s the ones still alive.

Lets compare the lesbian HIV rate to the heterosexual women HIV rate then talk about how much a higher HIV rate proves that God is punishing that group.

I never said anything about God punishing anyone. That is your thought, not mine.

But we do know that the rates for HIV are rampart in the gay men population. Their life expectancy is about 20-30 years less and they live with chronic illness often from a young age. It is not something we want to hold up for anyone to get involved with or even try out of curiosity. Now don’t jump on me for that comment.

I am not disagreeing with you in that the rates may be rampart in the same-sex community. I’m saddened by that. I am just saying that there are more heterosexuals,95% and although their basic rate may be lower, because there are more, their overall rates are much higher. You state the rate for males in higher. The rate for girls and suicide is high also, the infighting that goes on with girls is something else. There are those that deny this is even happening.

How to address it so that it actually helps both gay and heterosexuals is of concern and not aggravate the situation. It may appear that this is helping but I think that is only appearance and might even be hurting.

I prefer more in the realm of private groups, counseling and such.

 

[gam197]

This is so wrong.

Nobody is bullied for being heterosexual. They’re bullied for being LGBT, or overweight, or ugly, or disabled, or autistic, or awkward, or poor, or weak, or a racial minority. They’re bullied because they don’t fit in. They’re bullied because they are in the minority.

In other words, if we don’t care about minorities, then we don’t care about kids who are being bullied. Period.

Because you don’t see it as heterosexual. Girls fight and bully girls all the time over boys.And I am not just talking about verbal abuse or back-stabbing but girls will beat up other girls or have a fight over something they thought happened with “their” boyfriend.

Now they don’t come out and say I am heterosexual and like this boy and don’t want that girl to date him or even talk to him.

They are not in the minority but genders fight with each other all the time in schools. What kind of bullying is it?

 

[Kamaduck]

Because you don’t see it as heterosexual. Girls fight and bully girls all the time over boys.And I am not just talking about verbal abuse or back-stabbing but girls will beat up other girls or have a fight over something they thought happened with “their” boyfriend.

Now they don’t come out and say I am heterosexual and like this boy and don’t want that girl to date him or even talk to him.

They are not in the minority but genders fight with each other all the time in schools. What kind of bullying is it?

I think we’re talking past each other. You’re talking about feuds between individual heterosexual girls, and girls attacking each other because of those feuds. Because that happens on an individual level, schools can deal with it on a case-by-case basis. I do think that needs to be taken seriously, yes, but it rarely leads to death.

What LGBT individuals (and sometimes other groups- disabled kids, racial minorities, etc.) face is fundamentally different. They face bullying from multiple kids because of their status as a member of the group. The student body as a whole acts to exclude them, harass them, dismiss them, insult them, and eventually, sometimes, kill them. These are not fueds between two students, but between a student and the rest of the student body. The administration can’t stop that in the same way. They can’t punish the student body as a whole.

That means that the opposition to this type of bullying needs to come from the students themselves. They need to stop being bystanders, and make the statement that they support these people and will not condone bullying.

The two things aren’t in opposition to each other, it’s just that different strategies work better to combat different problems.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Because you don’t see it as heterosexual. Girls fight and bully girls all the time over boys.And I am not just talking about verbal abuse or back-stabbing but girls will beat up other girls or have a fight over something they thought happened with “their” boyfriend.

Now they don’t come out and say I am heterosexual and like this boy and don’t want that girl to date him or even talk to him.

They are not in the minority but genders fight with each other all the time in schools. What kind of bullying is it?

That’s girls fighting over a boy, not a girl being bullied for being attracted to the opposite sex.

 

[gam197]

That’s girls fighting over a boy, not a girl being bullied for being attracted to the opposite sex.

Yes, but many would have us believe that heterosexuals don’t bully each other when in fact, it is also rampart. The public schools are a mess and that is why parents struggle to get their children into a private catholic school. They are just taught more morals. Not that bullying doesn’t go on, it is just happens a lot less.

I feel very bad for the gay students too. I’m just not sure it is even helping and may be actually causing more trouble because many Christians who would normally be right aside those who hate bullying, are backing away from bullying.as an issue.

 

[SMGS127]

Because you don’t see it as heterosexual. Girls fight and bully girls all the time over boys.And I am not just talking about verbal abuse or back-stabbing but girls will beat up other girls or have a fight over something they thought happened with “their” boyfriend.

That’s not bullying…

If a guy gets cheated on, and beats the guy who slept with his girlfriend, you consider that “bullying?” I consider that fighting.

Bullying is when someone gets targeted for literally no reason outside an innate part of themselves (their skin color, family background, sexual orientation, gender identity, “weak” personality, etc.), not when someone’s behavior leads to a fight.

I feel very bad for the gay students too. I’m just not sure it is even helping and may be actually causing more trouble because many Christians who would normally be right aside those who hate bullying, are backing away from bullying.as an issue.

gam, I know you don’t mean it this way, but can’t you see how your argument is virtually the same thing as someone arguing that we should keep quiet about the Church’s teachings on, say, contraceptives, so as not to anger needed allies on the pro-life or anti-SS’M’ fronts?

What’s right is always right when good intentions are involved; what’s wrong is always wrong, no matter what. We should not sit back and allow gay kids to be bullied just so that we don’t upset other Protestant religions.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Yes, but many would have us believe that heterosexuals don’t bully each other when in fact, it is also rampart. The public schools are a mess and that is why parents struggle to get their children into a private catholic school. They are just taught more morals. Not that bullying doesn’t go on, it is just happens a lot less.

I feel very bad for the gay students too. I’m just not sure it is even helping and may be actually causing more trouble because many Christians who would normally be right aside those who hate bullying, are backing away from bullying.as an issue.

At my public high school the faculty enforced decorum to a sufficient degree that bully was not rampant despite it being poor.

 

[Rin]

Yes, but many would have us believe that heterosexuals don’t bully each other when in fact, it is also rampart.

Ehm… sorry, but no. I have never seen anyone claim anything of the sort, not once in my life. Even if you could substantiate this with a quote (which I heavily doubt), it would be nothing other than the exception to the rule.

If anything, it is bullying of LGB (not to speak of T) individuals which is generally downplayed, ignored or in some cases even encouraged (intentionally or not). When I went to school, we had programs to fight bullying of people with disabilities, we had programs to fight bullying of people because of religion, and so on, but no programs to fight bullying of people with same-sex attraction or transgenderism. At best, they were implicitly included in the general anti-bullying programs, but then those were mainly aimed towards stopping the bullying of kids with nerd tendencies, and had no mention whatsoever of sexual orientation or gender identity.

But I graduated from high school in 2001, and a lot has happened since then. But to claim that people are denying that heterosexual, cisgender kids are bullied, is simply ridiculous.

The public schools are a mess and that is why parents struggle to get their children into a private catholic school. They are just taught more morals. Not that bullying doesn’t go on, it is just happens a lot less.

Catholic schools in my area also spend extra resources on preventing and resolving bullying situations, since “good social and teaching climate” is generally a good selling point.

I feel very bad for the gay students too. I’m just not sure it is even helping and may be actually causing more trouble because many Christians who would normally be right aside those who hate bullying, are backing away from bullying.as an issue.

If someone who proclaims to be “Christian” backs away from the fight against bullying because a program aims to stop bullying of those not liked by said person, I think that person should consider whether he or she is a bully him- or herself. I’m sorry, but I would prefer if such persons actually did back away.