Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

[Alisa]

Fix, children of ANY two parents experience the right of “complementarity”. There is more to “complementarity” than what happens behind the closed door of the parents’ bedroom. Most parents of any sexual orientation complement one another in their parenting style, in the sharing of tasks around the house, in the way they show love and affection to their children.

My older daughter has taught a number of children of same-sex couples, and over the years she has told me they are just as well adjusted, just as loved, with no more psychological problems than any of the other kids – and in fact with fewer problems than children she’s taught who have come from abusive or dysfunctional heterosexual couples.

Good parenting can come from heterosexual couples, gay couples, grandparents, adoptive parents, etc., etc. This is true for bad parenting as well.

Alisa

 

[fix]

Can you explain how you feel so, because by definition it does.

It is really self evident. There is a vast difference between a single parent and two same sex parents posing and husband and wife.

 

[fix]

Fix, children of ANY two parents experience the right of “complementarity”. There is more to “complementarity” than what happens behind the closed door of the parents’ bedroom. Most parents of any sexual orientation complement one another in their parenting style, in the sharing of tasks around the house, in the way they show love and affection to their children.

My older daughter has taught a number of children of same-sex couples, and over the years she has told me they are just as well adjusted, just as loved, with no more psychological problems than any of the other kids – and in fact with fewer problems than children she’s taught who have come from abusive or dysfunctional heterosexual couples.

Good parenting can come from heterosexual couples, gay couples, grandparents, adoptive parents, etc., etc. This is true for bad parenting as well.

Alisa

I am sorry but this is incorrect and really does a disservice to children.

Good parenting includes not exposing children to deviant behaviors. This used to be self evident before moral relativism became so widely embraced.

We can start right here:

1. Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involv- ing a grave lack of respect for human dignity,(15) does nothing to alter this inadequacy.

Homosexual unions are also totally lacking in the conjugal dimension, which represents the human and ordered form of sexuality. Sexual relations are human when and insofar as they express and promote the mutual assistance of the sexes in marriage and are open to the transmission of new life.

As experience has shown, the absence of sexual complementarity in these unions creates obstacles in the normal development of children who would be placed in the care of such persons. They would be deprived of the experience of either fatherhood or motherhood. Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full human development. This is gravely immoral and in open contradiction to the principle, recognized also in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, that the best interests of the child, as the weaker and more vulnerable party, are to be the paramount consideration in every case…

 

[fix]

As I have posted before, the burden of proof is on the advocates of social change, not on those who favor the status quo.

The problem is “proof” is often misdefined. The argumehts you read here are no different than the bumper sticker logic…all it takes is love to make a family. The pro gay propagandists, mixed with relativism, cannot prove what they want because they start from a false premise.

 

[Polaris]

It is really self evident. There is a vast difference between a single parent and two same sex parents posing and husband and wife.

What is this vast difference?

It is easy to argue that the single parent does more harm to the child than two same sex parents. A single parent can not model for the child the interactions between two non related humans and the conflict resolution that it requires. Just because the two of them are male or female does not mean they think the same. There will be compromises and the children will also see selfless love in action. A single parent child will not have the abilit to demonstrate this and will probably have trouble adjusting to a family situation where they will have to compromise with their partner.

 

[Polaris]

The problem is “proof” is often misdefined. The argumehts you read here are no different than the bumper sticker logic…all it takes is love to make a family. The pro gay propagandists, mixed with relativism, cannot prove what they want because they start from a false premise.

Please list all the parts of your “true” premise and continue with the proof of you conclusion.

 

[Alisa]

Fix, have you ever even KNOWN same-sex couples and same-sex parents? I know several, including a close family member (one of my sibling’s children). The dynamic is not that of “posing as husband and wife” at all. The gay couples I’ve known are just as loving, just as concerned about their children’s wellbeing as any good heterosexual parents.

What a child needs is a healthy environment, lots of love and affection, and of course guidance in growing to be a loving and responsible person.

I abhor your choice of words – “deviant behavior”. That phrase is normally used to describe rapists and child-molesters. Surely you wouldn’t be putting same-sex parents under the same umbrella as criminals here?

By the way, just out of curiosity, I see you are “forum master”. Does that mean your role on CAF is “forum master”, or does that mean you are the master of this particular thread?

Alisa

 

[edwest2]

AmyBrownEyes, while I am not neither a proponent nor an opponent on this matter, I think the horse is already out of the barn. If Iowa can legalize same sex marriage, there is no stopping what will become a veritable tsunami in years to come. In a sense religious conservatives brought it on themselves by refusing to support even civil unions for same sex couples.

With the younger generation (including my children) same sex relationships are hardly an issue. As more and more people come to know people in the LGBT community as fellow human beings rather than as the moral monsters they are portrayed to be by the likes of Fred Phelps, we will see a massive attitudinal shift.

StAnastasia

Sadly, you are blaming the wrong people. No one “brought it on themselves.” It was the radical gay community. And even worse, you point to one particular example of a hate-monger and then claim “they” are all like that. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a crude and provocative generalization.

Perhaps you and your children will become accepting of multiple sex partner marriage or man-boy marriage or consensual incest or mammal to mammal love. As a famous artist once said, If we go down that road we could get used to almost anything. I don’t want to go down that road.

I don’t hate gay people. I had a (formerly) bisexual friend.

Peace,
Ed

 

[StAnastasia]

The human study shows human genes changing with experience in life. We also see physical changes taking place. Change in voice or change in actions as a person becomes homosexual active. There are even change in the thought process./QUOTE]

Can you please post a link to a scientific article explaining how genes change through life? This is a theory of which I haven’t heard.

 

[StAnastasia]

My older daughter has taught a number of children of same-sex couples, and over the years she has told me they are just as well adjusted, just as loved, with no more psychological problems than any of the other kids – and in fact with fewer problems than children she’s taught who have come from abusive or dysfunctional heterosexual couples…Alisa

Alisa, there are two girls in my son’s class who were adopted from the same orphanage in China. One was adopted by a heterosexual couple, the other by a lesbian couple; they met when the came to our Catholic school. Both are bright, happy, normal, well-adjusted girls, altar servers and leaders in their class. Both have had crushes on various of the boys. It is a delight to work with these girls and their parents.

StAnastasia

 

[zookeeper]

A single parent does not deny complementarity.

It is really self evident. There is a vast difference between a single parent and two same sex parents posing and husband and wife.

You still have not answered it. I do not deny there is a difference between single parenting and dual-parenting (regardless of sexes), but that was not the question. If it is your statement that complementarity is not denied with the absence of one gender, than it can not also be your statement that complementarity *is *denied with presence of just one gender.

 

[zookeeper]

Alisa, there are two girls in my son’s class who were adopted from the same orphanage in China. One was adopted by a heterosexual couple, the other by a lesbian couple; they met when the came to our Catholic school. Both are bright, happy, normal, well-adjusted girls, altar servers and leaders in their class. Both have had crushes on various of the boys. It is a delight to work with these girls and their parents.

StAnastasia

Imagine that. A homosexual couple providing a moral upbringing and education for an adopted child. Surely this is an anomaly, right? Or is this violence to that child?

 

[Benadam]

Fix, have you ever even KNOWN same-sex couples and same-sex parents? I know several, including a close family member (one of my sibling’s children). The dynamic is not that of “posing as husband and wife” at all. The gay couples I’ve known are just as loving, just as concerned about their children’s wellbeing as any good heterosexual parents.

What a child needs is a healthy environment, lots of love and affection, and of course guidance in growing to be a loving and responsible person.

I abhor your choice of words – “deviant behavior”. That phrase is normally used to describe rapists and child-molesters. Surely you wouldn’t be putting same-sex parents under the same umbrella as criminals here?

By the way, just out of curiosity, I see you are “forum master”. Does that mean your role on CAF is “forum master”, or does that mean you are the master of this particular thread?

Alisa

A mechanism to cope with a disordered identity is to make it’s importance null, void. The more important it is to develope a healthy attachment to identify ones sex the more critical one is obligated to be about homosexuality.

It also follows that since feminity reveals masculinity and visa versa the disharmony between the two would destroy intimate awareness of the nature of gender. So the natural law would be more difficult to discern.

the enfluence of the parents sex on the child is primary to it’s developing awareness of sex. Please don’t just poo poo it’s importance away just to support a political position. We’re discussing Gay Marriage and the only support for it I’ve heard is ‘all kids need is love’ oy vey…

 

[StAnastasia]

Sadly, you are blaming the wrong people. No one “brought it on themselves.” It was the radical gay community. And even worse, you point to one particular example of a hate-monger and then claim “they” are all like that. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a crude and provocative generalization.Peace,Ed

Ed, the Fred Phelps types do their damage, even if not all of you are like them. And as I said in my post, I am not in favor of gay marriage. My position – shared by many people – is that the government in a secular state is in no position to bless any couple with marriage.

The state should grant civil unions only, and leave it up to churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples to bless or not to bless those unions as marriages. If this had been the arrangement twenty years ago, I doubt we would now be seeing the land rush by gay activists to garner marriage rights. With conservative Iowa pointing to the future, it’s only a matter of time before one state after another falls before the gay “marriage” juggernaut.

If this were Calvin’s Geneva the state might claim its right to restrict marriage. But it’s not Geneva of 1530. I do wonder what would happen if reasonable people on all sides took a breather, sat down, and really talked to each other, not past each other, about the meaning of love relationships, marriage, and civil unions in a free and secular society. We might actually get somewhere, and avoid all the rancor and bitterness of political campaigns, hate speech, and even personal violence.

StAnastasia

 

[fix]

You still have not answered it. I do not deny there is a difference between single parenting and dual-parenting (regardless of sexes), but that was not the question. If it is your statement that complementarity is not denied with the absence of one gender, than it can not also be your statement that complementarity *is *denied with presence of just one gender.

I did answer. A single parent does not confuse male and female. Two same sex persons do confuse. It is self evident for those with eyes to see.

 

[StAnastasia]

Imagine that. A homosexual couple providing a moral upbringing and education for an adopted child. Surely this is an anomaly, right? Or is this violence to that child?

Zookeeper, believe it or not, there are those who would argue that the girl should have been allowed to languish in the Chinese orphanage rather than be adopted by a lesbian couple!

 

[fix]

What is this vast difference?

It is easy to argue that the single parent does more harm to the child than two same sex parents. A single parent can not model for the child the interactions between two non related humans and the conflict resolution that it requires. Just because the two of them are male or female does not mean they think the same. There will be compromises and the children will also see selfless love in action. A single parent child will not have the abilit to demonstrate this and will probably have trouble adjusting to a family situation where they will have to compromise with their partner.

Two same sex persons posing as husband and wife is not teaching anything good about the most fundamental aspects of life and development. I guess if you view humans some form life to be experimented on and that the natural law, right reason, and God’s will as of no value then I can see why you hold the positions you hold.

 

[fix]

Zookeeper, believe it or not, there are those who would argue that the girl should have been allowed to languish in the Chinese orphanage rather than be adopted by a lesbian couple!

The usual false choice is presented.

 

[fix]

Fix, have you ever even KNOWN same-sex couples and same-sex parents?

Whether I say yes or no, how will that change the truth of my position? Does morality change based on desensitization or corruption of conscience?

This is like when people say I know this or that couple and they are polite people therefore their actions do not matter. Substitute pornographer, abortionist, fornicator, adulterer, bank robber, or anything else and then tell me how you can justify bad behavior based on personal comfort with friends?

I know several, including a close family member (one of my sibling’s children). The dynamic is not that of “posing as husband and wife” at all. The gay couples I’ve known are just as loving, just as concerned about their children’s wellbeing as any good heterosexual parents.

Sure, adults can have the child’s interest in their mind, but such sincerity does not prove that is in the child’s best interest. Being sincere does not make one right.

What a child needs is a healthy environment, lots of love and affection, and of course guidance in growing to be a loving and responsible person.

I guess then you could claim three men could be parents or two men and five women. Or two “married” brothers or six “married” sisters. The bumper stick slogans do not stand up to moral reasoning.

I abhor your choice of words – “deviant behavior”. That phrase is normally used to describe rapists and child-molesters. Surely you wouldn’t be putting same-sex parents under the same umbrella as criminals here?

Why is deviant incorrect? Is seriously wrong sexual conduct now to be seen as good?
How do you describe it?

 

[StAnastasia]

The usual false choice is presented.

No – it’s not false. I don’t see Catholic heterosexual couples flocking to adopt Chinese orphans. This was a real choice: take her home with them, or leave her there.