Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

[goofyjim]

Jim, which scripture are you referring to? I just know the one, “God made them male and female, He made them”. THe one should leave their father and mother and cling to one another, become one flesh.

Matthew 19:12 Some were born incapable of marriage. That just about covers anything incuding homosexual orientation. For the umpteenth time, I was born this way.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I never said that you are the reason, that you caused it.

Texas Roofer, do you have those links? If not, could you find them for me? So far, I haven’t been able to find any.

I was speaking of personal experience. By no means do I expect to be unique. As I watch/coach all these kids’ sports games I see girls worry about their hair, while boys demand to win then occasionally you see one or two who reverse that trend. I am convinced these children were not taught this role reversal

 

[ladybri77]

I was speaking of personal experience. By no means do I expect to be unique. As I watch/coach all these kids’ sports games I see girls worry about their hair, while boys demand to win then occasionally you see one or two who reverse that trend. I am convinced these children were not taught this role reversal

I’ve read articles of the effects of sexual abuse on girls. What happens is they tend to repress their feminine side because of the abuse and come to hate that side of themselves and become more masculine. I can’t tell you how many articles and books I’ve read where this type of abuse causes the girl turns to the same sex for comfort and feels more safe with them. Or the boy had only sisters to identify with, a father he hated, etc which made him identify more with females. There could be all kinds of family dynamics going on that we don’t see.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I’ve read articles of the effects of sexual abuse on girls. What happens is they tend to repress their feminine side because of the abuse and come to hate that side of themselves and become more masculine. I can’t tell you how many articles and books I’ve read where this type of abuse causes the girl turns to the same sex for comfort and feels more safe with them. Or the boy had only sisters to identify with, a father he hated, etc which made him identify more with females. There could be all kinds of family dynamics going on that we don’t see.

I read a lot of Freud both direct (hard to follow) and indirect (via others) I dismiss these abuse claims because of that. Not that all are free of abuse, it simply does not justify most causes. Additionally, i would tell you many of these transgendered traits are in happy children. btw - I grew up in a house of 5 males and 1 female, then my home was 1 male and 4 females believe me they are born different in many, many ways

 

[ladybri77]

I read a lot of Freud both direct (hard to follow) and indirect (via others) I dismiss these abuse claims because of that. Not that all are free of abuse, it simply does not justify most causes. Additionally, i would tell you many of these transgendered traits are in happy children. btw - I grew up in a house of 5 males and 1 female, then my home was 1 male and 4 females believe me they are born different in many, many ways

Yes many different ways that’s why they react to the same stimula in different ways. More sensitive children can react more severely to lack of love, abuse, etc, and seem to need more, while the sibling does not need as much. Yes there are those who grew up in households that were fine, maybe that’s where the biological cause of homosexuality comes in, I do not know.

What I am saying is NOT Freudian, it is from psychological studies done on these children where it shows a certain amount of things happening within the family and how the child perceives which can cause different ways the child reacts to make up for lost nurturing and love. People are always trying to restore themselves. I know coming from an alcoholic home. I’ve had many emotional problems which I have tried to resolve in my own way and a very critical mother. I tried to resolve it by looking for this love in other women. This is not to say that other people would deal with this differently, but this does occur.

You cannot say we are not affected by upbringing or the lack of. Many people have turned to drugs and crime because of a lack of father figures or physically abusive fathers. You just need to look at the statistics. There have been MANY studies done on the effects of abuse and parenting done on people and how they turn out in adulthood.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I am sorry to hear you have had problems

Yes many different ways that’s why they react to the same stimula in different ways. More sensitive children can react more severely to lack of love, abuse, etc, and seem to need more, while the sibling does not need as much. Yes there are those who grew up in households that were fine, maybe that’s where the biological cause of homosexuality comes in, I do not know.

well you have a combination of factors as perception, sensitivity, and independence

What I am saying is NOT Freudian,

sounds Freudian to me

it is from psychological studies done on these children where it shows a certain amount of things happening within the family and how the child perceives which can cause different ways the child reacts to make up for lost nurturing and love. People are always trying to restore themselves. I know coming from an alcoholic home. I’ve had many emotional problems which I have tried to resolve in my own way and a very critical mother. I tried to resolve it by looking for this love in other women. This is not to say that other people would deal with this differently, but this does occur.

Well Freud talks about the id, ego, and superego(?) which is to say if you cannot achieve what you think you should be, you’ll have issues. So again the person’s perception in very important.

You cannot say we are not affected by upbringing or the lack of. Many people have turned to drugs and crime because of a lack of father figures or physically abusive fathers. You just need to look at the statistics. There have been MANY studies done on the effects of abuse and parenting done on people and how they turn out in adulthood.

Well there is a combo factors, if the parent abuses; the child receives both the genes and the training to abuse. Have you looked at studies of lost children reunited after decades of separation? They are scary, and indicate genes are more important than seemed possible

 

[ladybri77]

Have you looked at studies of lost children reunited after decades of separation? They are scary, and indicate genes are more important than seemed possible

Yes, I have. Genes can play a role in sibling development. There have also been studies in twins where one twin is gay, the other is not. No gene role playing there.

I just hope you see the importance in the way people are raised as a strong factor in how they turn out. I’m sure you’ve mirrored some of the characteristics of your parents. Children copy their parents and learn by what they see. That’s why they say if you want your children to learn something, you have to model it, you can’t tell them one thing and act a different way. Which is why men who physically abuse their wives sometimes have male children who will abuse girlfriends or wives. Just look at Chris Brown. His father was an abuser toward his mother.

 

[Steven_John]

Please re read my post.

It is no more idolatry to be homosexual than it is to be heterosexual.

i never said that.

I am what I am and God is not unhappy

This is true there is nothing you can do to make God unhappy but God wants for His people heterosexual relationships in marriage.

He has no requirement for me to be heterosexual

Assuming the God you worship is the same God revealed in the bible you know he hates men sleeping with men.

If we say God is pleased with sin, or intended it for some people then we are creating a new image of God different to the bible, this is idolatry.

 

[ladybri77]

Please re read my post.
i never said that.

This is true there is nothing you can do to make God unhappy but God wants for His people heterosexual relationships in marriage.

Assuming the God you worship is the same God revealed in the bible you know he hates men sleeping with men.

If we say God is pleased with sin, or intended it for some people then we are creating a new image of God different to the bible, this is idolatry.

Jim means that there is no sin in having homosexual feelings, it’s if you act on them, it becomes a sin, and this is true. However, I believe God did not create anyone to be homosexual, this is part of what happened from the Fall. After the Fall, sin came into the world and many things went wrong in the womb and out of the womb.

 

[goofyjim]

Please re read my post.
i never said that.

This is true there is nothing you can do to make God unhappy but God wants for His people heterosexual relationships in marriage.

Assuming the God you worship is the same God revealed in the bible you know he hates men sleeping with men.

If we say God is pleased with sin, or intended it for some people then we are creating a new image of God different to the bible, this is idolatry.

Homosexuality, unacted upon is not sin. What gives you the right to call it such? I am worshipping the same God you are who made each of us unique. Even Jesus said made it clear that not all are called to marriage and some were born incapable of it.

 

[Jermosh]

Jim

Adultry and fornication produce children,

So does rape and test tubes. Not a really good point there.

 

[Jermosh]

Fornication and adultery are not perversions (they’re done in the natural way), although homosexuality is. All sin is not a perversion, but it should be as it is against God.

All sins are a perversion of good, its the basic defnition of a sin.

 

[Jermosh]

Civil marriage laws are designed to comply with Natural Law, which continues to produce children whether the marriage is sacramental, natural or unrecognized. SSA relations do not produce children thus do not need children related issues

Adultry and fornification are not part of natural law.

 

[ladybri77]

All sins are a perversion of good, its the basic defnition of a sin.

We only have control over the proposed gay marriage plan. We can only prevent that from happening right now, but we can’t prevent the other. There’s no way to police if someone has committed adultery before they’re married, people would never be truthful. The only thing we can do is try to stop the immorality at hand which is attempting to be legalized right now.

 

[HeWillProvide]

I don’t think it is “discriminatory” like you said.

Would it be discriminatory to tell a boy that, no, he cannot enter the Girl Scouts?
No - he simply doesn’t fit the definition and therefore cannot become one.

 

[Steven_John]

Emotional dependence meaning God is not first, the other person is, that is when it is idolatry.

Amen

 

[Ronald_E]

I do not know if this verse has been referenced but, I read this verse this morning while I was reading JP II’s Theology of the Body.
Matthew 19: 10-12 "His disciples said to him, ‘If that is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.’ He answered, ‘Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom that is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.’ "
The statement ‘because they were born so’ seems very important.

 

[Steven_John]

Jim means that there is no sin in having homosexual feelings, it’s if you act on them, it becomes a sin, and this is true. .

Amen

However, I believe God did not create anyone to be homosexual, this is part of what happened from the Fall. After the Fall, sin came into the world and many things went wrong in the womb and out of the womb

Amen

The book says we pay for the sins of our parents, that sin is visited on generations to come.

Bless you all sorry if i jumped in on yars, i must have missed some posts.

 

[Steven_John]

Homosexuality, unacted upon is not sin. What gives you the right to call it such? .

**Where did is say that? **
I said

Assuming the God you worship is the same God revealed in the bible you know he hates men sleeping with men.

Clearly this is action not desire.

You have jumped too quick rather than taken the time to see where i am coming from.

You now appear not to have peace, this may mean there is something in your life that is not right with God.

I tried to address the issue of idolatry.

I am worshipping the same God you are who made each of us unique.

If you have decided God wanted you to be this way you have an idol for your God by my interpretation of scripture.

Even Jesus said made it clear that not all are called to marriage and some were born incapable of it

You maybe stretching the context this was offered in, no where does it mention homosexuals. Most on this site advocate context of scripture.

If your interpretation is what God wants for you than it is what you will cling to but Has God told you to spread it?

Scripture is what should be spread

Lets look at the scripture

Matthew 19:9-13

9`And I say to you, that, whoever may put away his wife, if not for whoredom, and may marry another, doth commit adultery; and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.’

10His disciples say to him, `If the case of the man with the woman is so, it is not good to marry.’

11And he said to them, `All do not receive this word, but those to whom it hath been given;

12for there are eunuchs who from the mother’s womb were so born; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are eunuchs who kept themselves eunuchs because of the reign of the heavens: he who is able to receive [it] – let him receive.’

13Then were brought near to him children that he might put hands on them and pray, and the disciples rebuked them.

You know your anatomy better than us, only you can answer if you are physically capable of producing children.
You have stated you are capable of abstinence of sleeping with men so the first part would not apply to you.

If you have the anatomy and you are truthful of your abstinence this passage would say you are fit to marry (my interpretation).

It is always good to place God above all worldly but what motivates, love for God or fear of wrongful desire or even pride in it.

Scripture is the sword it cuts deep and hath two edges. When i use it i oft get cut. How about you?

I often find myself clinging to bits of scripture to justify my not perfect relationship with My Father, this is idolatry because i change God to suit me because i know i am weak and dont change myself.
The good news is i dont have to change myself in full submission He will change me to how i was created. I still fall short on this, May God have mercy on me.

I dont doubt you may have been born with the feelings you have, you may have looked out of your crib in hospital and been eyeing of the baby next to you. I was not there so your memory would be better.

At a guess you dont remember that day in your crib, but as you were developing and grew more aware you had feelings directed different to those heterosexuals.

It is unlikely you know exactly why you are how you are.

You are a good Christian in your actions of intention submitting to the God of Jesus (pbwh) and abstaining from acting in sin. If you have the anatomy consider marriage, God wants us to multiply, His intended creation of you is one with women.

God can do all things, if you see Him in the true light and want to be changed He can do this.

In my life it is only me that stops His miracles.

May God bless you with peace on your journey.

 

[goofyjim]

**Where did is say that? **
I said

Clearly this is action not desire.

You have jumped too quick rather than taken the time to see where i am coming from.

You now appear not to have peace, this may mean there is something in your life that is not right with God.

I tried to address the issue of idolatry.

If you have decided God wanted you to be this way you have an idol for your God by my interpretation of scripture.

You maybe stretching the context this was offered in, no where does it mention homosexuals. Most on this site advocate context of scripture.

If your interpretation is what God wants for you than it is what you will cling to but Has God told you to spread it?

Scripture is what should be spread

Lets look at the scripture

You know your anatomy better than us, only you can answer if you are physically capable of producing children.
You have stated you are capable of abstinence of sleeping with men so the first part would not apply to you.

If you have the anatomy and you are truthful of your abstinence this passage would say you are fit to marry (my interpretation).

It is always good to place God above all worldly but what motivates, love for God or fear of wrongful desire or even pride in it.

Scripture is the sword it cuts deep and hath two edges. When i use it i oft get cut. How about you?

I often find myself clinging to bits of scripture to justify my not perfect relationship with My Father, this is idolatry because i change God to suit me because i know i am weak and dont change myself.
The good news is i dont have to change myself in full submission He will change me to how i was created. I still fall short on this, May God have mercy on me.

I dont doubt you may have been born with the feelings you have, you may have looked out of your crib in hospital and been eyeing of the baby next to you. I was not there so your memory would be better.

At a guess you dont remember that day in your crib, but as you were developing and grew more aware you had feelings directed different to those heterosexuals.

It is unlikely you know exactly why you are how you are.

You are a good Christian in your actions of intention submitting to the God of Jesus (pbwh) and abstaining from acting in sin. If you have the anatomy consider marriage, God wants us to multiply, His intended creation of you is one with women.

God can do all things, if you see Him in the true light and want to be changed He can do this.

In my life it is only me that stops His miracles.

May God bless you with peace on your journey.

Please give it up. I am quite at peace and I am fully aware I was born with a homosexual orientation. God does not call of us to marriage, or are you choosing to ignore Matthew 19? He has never and will never call me to be with women.