Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

[Texas_Roofer]

Let me start by saying I once held a similar position

I am a Catholic. And I believe that Gay Marriage, as a civil institution, should be legal in the United States of America.

It is abundantly clear that secular society has a view of marriage that is vastly different than the Church. God is not brought into many marriages. People marry and divorce at will. People carry infidelity in their minds and bodies.

Marriage, as a civil institution, is a contract. It is no different than a contract between a labor union and employer. In other words, it often holds absolutely no spiritual value. God is rarely present. God is not required to be present.

This is the problem, this contradicts Natural [Moral] Law. Marriage is not a contract, not a contract at all. Men and Women marry all times and all places, with and without [legal] authority. Others cannot, they do alternate things and then attempt to achieve approval by calling what they do “marriage” however it is not marriage it cannot be marriage. Marriage is guy and girl thing when those two accept and need each other, the guy/girl pair is made to fit, while others simply are not made to fit

In this context, it is discriminatory to not allow homosexuals to take part in this institution.

This is an interesting subject “judge verses nature” nature will win though the judge will claim victory

I support the Churches teaching on homosexuality. Even more so, I support the Churches teaching on marriage.

However, if same sex couples want to have a civil marriage that is their right. The Church should not concern itself.

“right” I am not following you here what “right” is the church trying to deny?

I definitely see some of the arguments that were made in this thread against same sex marriage.

However, none of them relate to or should be binding in a civil marriage. One poster had questioned why I brought up divorce in the argument. It was not to posit the idea that divorce was in any way acceptable. Rather, this is the nature of civil marriage. It is a contract between two mutually consenting adults. It can be broken at any time and for. any reason. I can see know reason why civil society should not grant this contract to same sex couples the same as opposite sex couples.

Which is to say these are not mariages at all, marriages are not “broken at any time for any reason” and the children know the difference. Please read some statistics on the link between single parenting and crime, also read the statistics of monogamy with in same sex relationships

Christian marriage and civil marriage are two vastly different things. I remember when my wife and I were sitting down and discussing getting married with our priest he told us just that. He told us that the civil part of marriage can be broken at will. But in the Church it is a blessed sacrament that can not be broken. Very different.

I think the priest told you correctly, however you misunderstood. The church will only marry you if it is likely you are attempting a real marriage, while the civil authority requires $2

hope that helps

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I think some of the responders are suspicious of the original poster and so am i. i just started participating in this forum for the reason i have stated here and on my website. i am amazes to see so many “Catholics” are gays and pro gays…and noticed that quite few of them are new posters. i run a major forum and can almost immediately spot a seminar posters…

Seminar Posters= those who pretend to be who they are not and make comments to advance their agenda or to prove you wrong!

now my respond to the first poster. i think you have received many great answers here. yes gays should have legal rights as all Americans but have no right to re-write or redo what God has instituted which majority of us revere. Marriage is a Holy Sacrament between man, woman. period.

if this forum doesn’t like how i say things they can delete my account. but unfortunately it is the spineless attitudes like yours that got us to this point in dealing with homosexuals, trying to save marriage and family. you guys keep being weak while the homos get stronger. charity works for most but not for some.

Who am I? well, i may not be around, but people like me will save your asses one day. i say it like it is, if you don’t like my writing, don’t read them. so now i ask you, who are you?

JPUSC.
stop throwing 2358 at me, why don’t you read the rest,
2357
2359
2396
2400

I am betting you do not know what psychiatrists say about gay hate?

 

[Bass]

I am betting you do not know what psychiatrists say about gay hate?

NO disagreeing and stopping corruption is not hate, but destroying family and marriage is.

 

[Other_Eric]

Same sex attraction is a psychological problem and such a marriage would be damaging to the individuals in them.

They should remain friends, not lovers.

There is no authentic friendship to be had between two individuals who would reduce each other to mere sexual receptacles.

 

[Catholic90]

if this forum doesn’t like how i say things they can delete my account. but unfortunately it is the spineless attitudes like yours that got us to this point in dealing with homosexuals, trying to save marriage and family. you guys keep being weak while the homos get stronger. charity works for most but not for some.

Who am I? well, i may not be around, but people like me will save your asses one day. i say it like it is, if you don’t like my writing, don’t read them. so now i ask you, who are you?

JPUSC.
stop throwing 2358 at me, why don’t you read the rest,
2357
2359
2396
2400

They all say the SAME THING…the ACTS are sinful, NOT having the feelings.

Read it and UNDERSTAND it.

(swear much around your children, btw? Call them childish names when you try to “tough love” them?)

…methinks thou dost protest too much about the acts…something in your past bothering you…?

I have noticed you are NOT very kind or charitable in your posting.

 

[Other_Eric]

It seems to me that the OP has a point. In a culture that accepts no-fault divorce, marriage can be conceived as nothing more than an arrangement that exists solely for the purposes of the self-gratification of the individuals involved. When the relationship fails to satiate this hedonistic appetite, it is dissolved. In a culture that accepts contraception, no one recognizes that procreation is inherent to marriage, therefore the argument about children fails. Since it is self-gratification that forms the foundation of the relationship, denying that two individuals of the same sex could enter into such an agreement is exactly what the OP says it is: discriminatory and impossible to defend on the culture’s terms.

This said, the OP then goes on to arrive at exactly the wrong solution. The OP must ask himself whether or not he believes that what the Church teaches on this issue is the truth. If he answers in the affirmative, he must then go on to demonstrate what advantage is to be had in allowing the secular law to drift away from this truth into the realm of radical, diabolical fantasy. It is as simple as that.

 

[Bass]

They all say the SAME THING…the ACTS are sinful, NOT having the feelings.

Read it and UNDERSTAND it.

(swear much around your children, btw? Call them childish names when you try to “tough love” them?)

…methinks thou dost protest too much about the acts…something in your past bothering you…?

I have noticed you are NOT very kind or charitable in your posting.

you call it feelings, but God calls it lust.

attacking me is not going to change things, its only going to further you away from God. sexual attraction (you call it feeling) is a lustful feeling. Christ said its a sin. there is a way out BTW, reject it when you get these feeling, that’s what saints do, but don’t promote it because that’s what haters do.

 

[edwest2]

Wow, I just saw the name of your website and I think you should put a disclaimer on there indicating that you do not represent the views of the Roman Catholic Church. It is things like this that make others think badly of Christianity in general.

People with same-sex inclinations are not of a different species. Research supported by Catholic institutions indicate that same-sex-attraction is a psychological reaction to certain events and circumstances in one’s life. We, as Catholics, should be helping these individuals overcome their difficulties, shortcomings and suffering instead of spreading around hate.

You are wrong. The topic is so-called gay marriage. Please do not change the subject. Respect for gay people should not be used to deflect clear Church teaching that so-called gay marriage is unacceptable.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Catholic90]

you call it feelings, but God calls it lust.

attacking me is not going to change things, its only going to further you away from God. sexual attraction (you call it feeling) is a lustful feeling. Christ said its a sin. there is a way out BTW, reject it when you get these feeling, that’s what saints do, but don’t promote it because that’s what haters do.

I think it is YOU who has sex on the brain.

I can look at a man and think, “That is an attractive man. He is tall, handsome, and well built.” In NO WAY does that mean I want to sleep with him. I can admire the form.

I can also look at a woman and think, “That is an attractive woman. She really carries herself well and looks confident.” In NO WAY does that mean I want to sleep with her. I can admire the form.

The body can be like art.

AND one can feel sexual attraction WITHOUT being lustful. Duh.

Again I say it is YOU who has too much sex on the brain.

Have you never looked at a woman besides your wife in your years together and thought to yourself, “That is an attractive woman.” Did not mean you wanted to have sex with this woman, but you admired the form.

 

[Catholic90]

You are wrong. The topic is so-called gay marriage. Please do not change the subject. Respect for gay people should not be used to deflect clear Church teaching that so-called gay marriage is unacceptable.

Peace,
Ed

Ed, I believe he was referring to Bass’s website in his signature. That site (gaysaresick.com) is a hate-filled site and does not represent the Catholic Church’s teachings.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

NO disagreeing and stopping corruption is not hate, but destroying family and marriage is.

you call it feelings, but God calls it lust.

attacking me is not going to change things, its only going to further you away from God. sexual attraction (you call it feeling) is a lustful feeling. Christ said its a sin. there is a way out BTW, reject it when you get these feeling, that’s what saints do, but don’t promote it because that’s what haters do.

It would seem a raw nerve is exposed

 

[Steven_John]

Challenging thread

He who lives buy the sword dies by the sword.

He who promotes hate becomes hated.

We really need to love each other without compromise of the law.

It is a challenge when we see some one full of hate to love them more than they hate.

But for God all things are possible so for those who submit to Him all good things are possible.

 

[edwest2]

Challenging thread

He who lives buy the sword dies by the sword.

He who promotes hate becomes hated.

We really need to love each other without compromise of the law.

It is a challenge when we see some one full of hate to love them more than they hate.

But for God all things are possible so for those who submit to Him all good things are possible.

I notice you’re after the one God who is above all religions. Catholics believe in the one true God and in the Catholic religion.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Jermosh]

Challenging thread

He who lives buy the sword dies by the sword.

He who promotes hate becomes hated.

We really need to love each other without compromise of the law.

It is a challenge when we see some one full of hate to love them more than they hate.

But for God all things are possible so for those who submit to Him all good things are possible.

Amen!

 

[yellowbicycle]

I’ve been thinking more and more about this very idea lately.
I’ve been wondering, it’s still jsut in the wondering stage, if I can get a divorce from the state but still retain my sacramental marriage?
The fact is, I don’t give two hoots if the state regards us as man and wife. They don’t even get or respect or care what that means. I don’t need the state’s approval and I never have.
I only need God’s.
So, leave ‘marriage’ to those who want to divorce, sleep around, and marry their same sex best friend, sister or mother. I don’t really care.
All I know is that I don’t want to be associated with such a goofy idea of ‘marriage’.
So, I’ve been wondering this too - I sort of want to leave my state marriage behind and keep my sacramental one.

Just something I’ve been wondering about.

 

[Steven_John]

I notice you’re after the one God who is above all religions. Catholics believe in the one true God and in the Catholic religion.

Peace,
Ed

Hi Ed,
i dont see the connection between the comment and the quote of post #32?

you say “I notice you’re after the one God who is above all religions.” that is not what i offered but you are right we all are after Him as He is the creator.

Your statement in bold states the obvious.

Dont see the relevance between my faith statement and your comment.
God gives covering (protects, loves and graces) believers in the Catholic religion.
God is higher than mans understanding or lack of understanding of Him so is above all religions.

Dont see either as connected to this thread. Rather than de rail this thread feel welcome to PM me if you would like to know more about me or share about you or if you want either of theses in public start a thread and i will be happy to contribute.

May God bless and guide you on your journey while you are submitting.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I’ve been thinking more and more about this very idea lately.
I’ve been wondering, it’s still jsut in the wondering stage, if I can get a divorce from the state but still retain my sacramental marriage?

such is not a unique condition

The fact is, I don’t give two hoots if the state regards us as man and wife. They don’t even get or respect or care what that means. I don’t need the state’s approval and I never have.
I only need God’s.
So, leave ‘marriage’ to those who want to divorce, sleep around, and marry their same sex best friend, sister or mother. I don’t really care.

Are you saying lets change the meaning of marriage to “whatever”? That is a common request however it is problematic because it strips the children and grandmothers of society’s desired care. Some want to increase welfare to all as a substitue so you pay alot to strangers rather than your family. Family or strangers there may be no legal difference

All I know is that I don’t want to be associated with such a goofy idea of ‘marriage’.
So, I’ve been wondering this too - I sort of want to leave my state marriage behind and keep my sacramental one.

Just something I’ve been wondering about.

Does it matter if your wife and children live on welfare? See once marriage is redefined your wife will qualify for zero benefits, that way marriage fits all.

 

[Mark77]

Challenging thread

He who lives buy the sword dies by the sword.

He who promotes hate becomes hated.

We really need to love each other without compromise of the law.

It is a challenge when we see some one full of hate to love them more than they hate.

But for God all things are possible so for those who submit to Him all good things are possible.

There is no hate here, we love all people!

We love our children and when they want to do something that is harmful, like eat an entire bag of cookies, we lovingly tell them NO!

We do not hate them, on the contrary, we love them so much that we would die for them!

Marriage is between one man and one woman, for their entire lives, to ensure the continuation of a society by cooperating in the miracle of creating new life and loving and taking care of the their children, our future.

**A man and a man or a woman and a woman, no matter how much they love each other, can never create new life together!
**
“'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mt 19:5-6).

Don’t fall for the false argument that says you are closed minded, full of hate, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. if you “limit” marriage to one man and one woman.

If a man can marry whoever he loves, for example, 10 women, or another man, or his dog, or his car, or his favorite sports team, “because he really loves them”, then we have created a false definition of marriage.

No rational person would condone a man marrying 10 women, or his dog, or his car, or a sports team…

It is because we love everyone, no matter what the cost, that we allow ourselves to be hated, to be ridiculed, to be despised by those we love for their own good.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[Steven_John]

There is no hate here, we love all people!

Hi Mark please for give me, i must have missed your earlier posts in this thread.

You may have missed mine where i offered the meaning of hate as like least.

I also had thought i read people referring to the gaysaresick website as hate filled.
I noted the same tone in the posts spoken against this site.

But hey you speak for all the posters here in your comment when you say “we” or maybe it was just for you and you had supposed from my post it was about a position on gay unions despite me offering one in an earlier post.

God bless you and may He guide you also

 

[Bass]

There is no hate here, we love all people!

We love our children and when they want to do something that is harmful, like eat an entire bag of cookies, we lovingly tell them NO!

We do not hate them, on the contrary, we love them so much that we would die for them!

Marriage is between one man and one woman, for their entire lives, to ensure the continuation of a society by cooperating in the miracle of creating new life and loving and taking care of the their children, our future.

**A man and a man or a woman and a woman, no matter how much they love each other, can never create new life together!
**
“'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” (Mt 19:5-6).

Don’t fall for the false argument that says you are closed minded, full of hate, a bigot, a homophobe, etc. if you “limit” marriage to one man and one woman.

If a man can marry whoever he loves, for example, 10 women, or another man, or his dog, or his car, or his favorite sports team, “because he really loves them”, then we have created a false definition of marriage.

No rational person would condone a man marrying 10 women, or his dog, or his car, or a sports team…

It is because we love everyone, no matter what the cost, that we allow ourselves to be hated, to be ridiculed, to be despised by those we love for their own good.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

i agree with you completely. calling something for what it is, its looked at as hate!

i think what ticked-off some of the poster here is the title of my website “gaysaresick” let me take this opportunity to interpret what that means. gays are sick mentally, psychologically, spiritually and for their sexual behavior. nothing is hateful about that.