Gay Marriage (A Different Perspective)

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I do not know why I am SSA. There are a million theories but no scientifically conclusive studies on it at this point. But I do know I grew up feeling less masculine, unloved by men particularly, and by people in general. I tried hard to fit in by pleasing others and married, believing that my faith in God would keep me from ever “acting out.” In the process I hurt and damaged a very good Christian woman and many others, and it didn’t lead to the happiness and fulfillment I hoped for.
Richard, you wrote from another post that you felt unloved by men particularly. Were you close to your father? Did he show affection to you?

I tend to feel that way sometimes, unloved by people. It’s something in me that I haven’t come to terms completely with yet. I would want to experience some of the love you said you’ve felt like from your sister-in-law. Maybe someday, but I think it’s up to me to go out and find good Christian friends. I can only do that a little at a time since not a lot is available to me right now, but I’ll take advantage of the things that are like Christian singles group.
 
Being Gay is a choice people make, it is not something you are born with such as a handicap, it is a wrong choice people make, and homosexuals like to be in your face, well God loves everyone, but not the choices people make… The fires of hell are very real and eternity is for a long long time… I hope all homosexuals will repent before they die, because, once you are dead… it’s too late

Well I would like to say as a lesbian being gay is NOT a choice people make. Just like how you can’t choose the color of your eyes or the color of your hair. We DO NOT choose to be beaten up, we DO NOT choose to be called hateful terms like queer, fag, or ****. We DO NOT choose to be killed just for being different! Hitler didn’t just murder the Jews he also murdered homosexuals they had to wear a pink triangle on their clothing. Some people believe that homosexuality can be passed down in the family. Possibly that is true for me I believe it. Homosexuals like to be in your face? How by hitting on a straight person is that what you mean? God does love everybody you are right about that. Your other quote was, " The fires of hell are very real and eternity is for a long long time.I hope all homosexuals will repent before they die, because, once you are dead… it’s too late" you reminded me a lot of a man who had said this to Matthew Shepard. So what you are saying is that all the gays that were murdered by anti-gay bashers are in hell!? Matthew Shepard was only 21 when he was killed he was beaten so severly that doctors couldn’t operate. Matthew had been attacked on Oct. 7 taken to a rural area he was tied to a fence beaten, tortured, and pistol whipped. He was there for 18 hours before someone found him. Sometime between the 18 hours Matthew had woken up and the only part of his face that wasn’t covered in blood was where the tears had fallen down his face. This was in 1998 on Oct. 12 Matthew passed away 55 days before his 22nd birthday on Dec. 1. So what you are saying is that because he was a homosexual Matthew is burning in hell for almost 11 years now?
Lawrence King was only 15 years old when he was shot in the head two times. He had given his killer a valentine. Larry was gay and sometimes he dressed in a feminine way. His killer was the same age as he was his name was Brandon. Brandon could get 55 years to life in prison. Brandon was able to attend his father’s funeral and I hope that when he was there Brandon was able to reflect on his actions of what he did by taking Larry’s life. Larry was kept alive on life support for two days so his organs could be donated. Are you saying that since Larry didn’t repent he is in hell right now?

Peace,

Amy
 
New York has been the fifth state to legalize gay marriage yay. As a lesbian it makes me happy. No one wants to hear this I am sure, but one day I hope that all 50 states can legalize gay marriage. Lesbians have a lower risk of catching HIV which is something heterosexual people should think about because not all gays are disease carriers everyone is. I want to be treated as a citizen of the U.S. not as a second class citizen because of my sexual orientation. Also I think children should learn about Harvey Milk in their history classes. Kids today probably don’t know who he was but they probably know of Martin Luther King more people recognize his name. I am not trying to be cross here, but Harvey Milk and Doctor King are both similar as in trying to get equality. Homosexuals don’t have equality yet. I hope one day an openly gay man or woman becomes president one day. We have elected Obama (who I voted for) the first African Amercian president. And I say hey now that we have done that maybe one day we can elect an openly gay person as president.

Amy 👍
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Harvey Milk was not ever, at any point, somebody who would ever embrace gay marriage in the terms that you do. Harvey Milk spent the greater part of his life warring against heterosexual norms and exhorting gays to smash them utterly. At no point would he ever approve of the approach we see today, that of saying, “We’re just like heteros, we have the same thing going, we’re just focused on different genders. That’s all.”

Such outright dishonesty would was too much for Harvey Milk, I’ll give him that. He was open, flagarant, in his exhortation of gays to use the vehicle of their sexuality to demolish the traditional world and stand up a brave new future.

Yes, it is crime that he was murdered senselessly. It is also not true that Milk’s tragic end approaches MLK’s. They are not the same animal. Most definitely not the same animal.
 
Hitler didn’t just murder the Jews he also murdered homosexuals they had to wear a pink triangle on their clothing.
Every one of Hitler’s most trusted bodyguards, from the S.A. period until the Fuhrerbunker, was an openly homosexual male. Yes, Hitler didn’t like effiminate gay men. He hated what he thought was weakness. He seemed to reward outsize devotion among his male followers, too.

Look out regarding these sweeping, outsize observations that cater to this or that political point. Life gets thick.
 
Every one of Hitler’s most trusted bodyguards, from the S.A. period until the Fuhrerbunker, was an openly homosexual male. Yes, Hitler didn’t like effiminate gay men. He hated what he thought was weakness. He seemed to reward outsize devotion among his male followers, too.

Look out regarding these sweeping, outsize observations that cater to this or that political point. Life gets thick.
It appears that everyone is trying to justify the sin of homosexuality.
Are you waiting for The Lord to change his mind? 🙂
There is one passage in the Bible that may help you decide if you are living this life style.
Or any other type of sinful lifestyle.

Heb.10:26-27 “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrfice for sins is left. 27 But only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will comsume the enemies of God.”

God bless you as you search for the truth in his Word.

jean
 
Sorry, the wonders of techology!!! My email said the response was from Alisa, but it was from Alaqoque, so I thanked the wrong person. However Alisa had a wonderful response too as did several others, so I again apologize for that error. God bless each of you. I am glad we are family here!/QUOTE

HMMM I never tried quoting myself before, hope this works. Yes, Alisa, your response was wonderful too, and as you can see above, I said so–and will say so again :). But the specific one I was answering was from Alaqoque, so that is the only reason I said I thanked the wrong person in that case…sorry for any further misunderstanding and I think we have a wonderful group here. This thread could go on for a LONGGGGGGG time!
 
Jean: Thank you so much for this: "Heb.10:26-27 “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrfice for sins is left. 27 But only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will comsume the enemies of God.”

It’s so good to have this called to mind (and have the reference of book/chapter/verse)! Apart from this thread we are now posting too, for many reasons, I am very glad to have that. I will be using it in the future, I know.

thank you again 👍
 
The legal point is that marriage is an establishment of religion. Marriage was an establishment of religion before the founding of this country. Our Constitution clearly states that the government shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion.

In no way is the state allowed to define a sacrament of the Church. God in His wisdom has moved the hearts of the gays to seek marriage under state law. They do so to try and dignify a basic disordered life style. The state defining an establishment of religion makes the action illegal under our Constitution. A Catholic as a citizens of this country has no obligation even under any law to recognize gay marriage in any form. God is allowing this conflict for the greater good of teaching the evils of homosexuality.

The basic evil of homosexuality is a perversion of the intent of God. God made us to enter into co-creation with Him for the purpose of the creation of souls. God’s purpose in the creation of man is to produce beings like God to share everlasting joy with Him.

The value of man made in the likeness of God, different from all other animals, is the intent of everlasting life with God. The homosexual life style without the purpose of procreation is a degradation of the value and dignity of man and an insult to the intent of God and the order of the creation.

The homosexual life style is that of perversion. Even the term gay is a perversion of the positive connotation of gay. Of course, the greatest insult and perversion is homosexual marriage. The only proper term is pervert. If you think the term pervert is offensive how much more so are the actions of those that pervert the intent of God.

Even if you have no religion the evil of debasing the value of human life and the process of life threatens all of society. It is only by the value we place in the uniqueness of human life are civilized societies able to exist. All of our laws and interactions dependent on respect for life and the process of life.
 
Richard, you wrote from another post that you felt unloved by men particularly. Were you close to your father? Did he show affection to you?

I tend to feel that way sometimes, unloved by people. It’s something in me that I haven’t come to terms completely with yet. I would want to experience some of the love you said you’ve felt like from your sister-in-law. Maybe someday, but I think it’s up to me to go out and find good Christian friends. I can only do that a little at a time since not a lot is available to me right now, but I’ll take advantage of the things that are like Christian singles group.
I did not read your other post but no, I don’t think you were being intentionally angry or crude in any way in your latest one. I think I was speaking in general terms because we often (me included, believe me!) do not realize how something “sounds” to the brain once it is in typewrittten form. We just all have to be careful to respect one another in each and every posting. I did not read your post to Amy, but I did read Amy’s recent one, and regarding Matthew Shepard, what a tragedy indeed. The saddest part is that the men who did that horrific crime still deny that they did it, or at least that they did it because of his sexual preferences. I saw them interviewed on 20/20 a year or two ago I believe, and it did indeed sicken me all over again. But they too need our prayers. Regarding Matthew’s eternal destiny, one thing about the Catholic Church is that we never declare that someone is “in hell.” That is for God to decide, and if that young man died crying as you mentioned–just perhaps he was calling on God to help him at that moment. That is my personl hunch, and if so, God is faithful and exceedingly loving and we can entrust his soul to a merciful Father. When Saddam Hussein was about to be executed, I (and no doubt thousands of others) prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet immediately for his soul. Same with Timothy McVeigh, who I later learned did indeed have a priest see him privately minutes before his death. AND NO, I am not comparing either of them with Matthew Shepard, my point is that all can be saved and that is our official Church teaching. No exceptions. THANK GOD for that!

Amy just know that you are not alone. All I would ask is for you to at least consider the claims made here that there is more to life than your sexuality, or mine, or anyone else’s. I think you are here in the first place because you were called by our Lord to at least check out that possiblity, and I would challenge you to do so.

Ladybri, regarding my dad, we are very close–now. But in the growing up years, not so much. He worked day and night and then came home, watched a baseball game (or football, or whatever) and then went to bed. That was the extent of our relationship. I am the youngest of 8 from a working class family and time with either of our parents was premium, believe me. Some would say that is why I am homosexualy inclined, but my brothers had the same experience growing up and neither had that issue. One of them in fact planted his “seed” all over the nation for years as a truck driver, so I have no clue how many neices and nephews I may have to this day as a result lol. I may have relatives world wide that I may never meet as a result. I know, TMI hehe. So anyway I do not know. I do know that I was different from them in that I was not good at group sports or fitting in with the other boys, and my dad simply did not know how to reach out to a son who he had very little in common with, so he tended to be closer to my other two brothers instead.

So I am not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg, so to speak. Was he deliberately ignoring me, thus causing me to doubt my masculinity, or did he sense that I was already different and therefore we just did not connect? Or some of both? I do not know nor does it honestly matter to me at this point. In any case I am not called to be athletic, or to guzzle beer and burp with the boys, but I am called to be a holy man of God, and I am working on it daily. St Joseph is my greatest example and my “father in the Faith,” and many now call him the patron of those men who deal with SSA. I also find St Francis of Assisi (another wild boy who didnt exactly bond with his father!) to be my example too. I have learned to love them both. As for the perfect mother, Our Lady does just fine to help us all and she knows the balance of “mothering” we each need. And above all, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ shows me what true manhood and sacrifice is all about.

God bless you in your search for truth and meaning. It is out there.
 
I agree with Jean, however let us never forget that this verse does NOT mean we cannot repent, no matter what we may have done or how often. Till that last moment on this earth, we can always call upon God for mercy and He will indeed hear us. However, we do not know when that moment may be. It is worth searching for the truth NOW, while we do have life and breath. Tomorrow may indeed be too late. Good reminder, and God bless.
 
CoG: In your last post, you said (in part)… “The legal point is that marriage is an establishment of religion. Marriage was an establishment of religion before the founding of this country. Our Constitution clearly states that the government shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion.”

I’ll try to be brief because I don’ t want to change the topic of this thread: I need to point out that your remark above is a misunderstanding of the section of the Bill of Rights you are referring to. Quoted in it’s entirety, it says:

Article the third [Amendment I]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The intent here was to prevent the ‘new’ country from establishing an “official religion of the country” or an official state religion that all citizens must join. (i.e. like England had done).

This section (the part on ‘religion’ ) clearly does not intend AT ALL to control or limit - much less eliminate (the free exercise thereof) any religion. The Founders of this country believed in and valued a citizenry that practiced religion and morality - freely!

The ‘establishment of religious freedom’ section of the Bill of Rights ENSURES that we will have religion active in the public square; each of us free to practice his own, and that the gov’t cannot ever prevent the free exercise of our religions within the public framework.

thank you…🙂
 
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Harvey Milk was not ever, at any point, somebody who would ever embrace gay marriage in the terms that you do. Harvey Milk spent the greater part of his life warring against heterosexual norms and exhorting gays to smash them utterly. At no point would he ever approve of the approach we see today, that of saying, “We’re just like heteros, we have the same thing going, we’re just focused on different genders. That’s all.”

Such outright dishonesty would was too much for Harvey Milk, I’ll give him that. He was open, flagarant, in his exhortation of gays to use the vehicle of their sexuality to demolish the traditional world and stand up a brave new future.

Yes, it is crime that he was murdered senselessly. It is also not true that Milk’s tragic end approaches MLK’s. They are not the same animal. Most definitely not the same animal.
I do know what I am talking about. You don’t know what you are talking about. Being gay isn’t a choice you make it is an attraction you have to the same sex.
 
It’s hard enough being Catholic in this world, and even harder to raise Catholic children when their culture is telling them that everything we believe in is wrong. I know God’s law is above civic law, but why would I support civic laws that conflict with God’s law? I’m going to do everything I can to give my children an environment that is supportive, and that includes voting against any legislation that contradicts Catholic beliefs. I think it is part of our Christian duty to work for a world that supports Christ’s teaching.
 
I do know what I am talking about. You don’t know what you are talking about. Being gay isn’t a choice you make it is an attraction you have to the same sex.
Maybe we didn’t choose the feelings, Amy, but we can certainly choose our behavior.
 
Ladybri, regarding my dad, we are very close–now. But in the growing up years, not so much. He worked day and night and then came home, watched a baseball game (or football, or whatever) and then went to bed. That was the extent of our relationship. I am the youngest of 8 from a working class family and time with either of our parents was premium, believe me. Some would say that is why I am homosexualy inclined, but my brothers had the same experience growing up and neither had that issue. One of them in fact planted his “seed” all over the nation for years as a truck driver, so I have no clue how many neices and nephews I may have to this day as a result lol. I may have relatives world wide that I may never meet as a result. I know, TMI hehe. So anyway I do not know. I do know that I was different from them in that I was not good at group sports or fitting in with the other boys, and my dad simply did not know how to reach out to a son who he had very little in common with, so he tended to be closer to my other two brothers instead.

So I am not sure which came first, the chicken or the egg, so to speak. Was he deliberately ignoring me, thus causing me to doubt my masculinity, or did he sense that I was already different and therefore we just did not connect? Or some of both? I do not know nor does it honestly matter to me at this point. In any case I am not called to be athletic, or to guzzle beer and burp with the boys, but I am called to be a holy man of God, and I am working on it daily. St Joseph is my greatest example and my “father in the Faith,” and many now call him the patron of those men who deal with SSA. I also find St Francis of Assisi (another wild boy who didnt exactly bond with his father!) to be my example too. I have learned to love them both. As for the perfect mother, Our Lady does just fine to help us all and she knows the balance of “mothering” we each need. And above all, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ shows me what true manhood and sacrifice is all about.

God bless you in your search for truth and meaning. It is out there.
Thanks for writing. It’s interesting to note that each child reacts to the father’s actions differently. We all have a different makeup. It seems the child with the most sensitive makeup tends to need more, and also the way the father perceives that child as opposed to the other children can affect the way he treats the child, as you were saying. You also said he actually was closer to your other two brothers, so that explains a lot. Everyone in the family reacts to the same thing in different ways.

I have experienced the affection of Mary in a sense, but for me I need to put Jesus above all others since that is my weakness to begin with, to put other people (women usually) up on a pedestal. So I need to be very careful with that. 😉
 
I know reading massive posts sucks, but here’s what I think in a brief summary, to Amy or any other homosexuals on the boards:
  1. God loving everyone doesn’t mean ALL THE TIME under all circumstances. He gives just love, meaning tough love, or love with guidelines. You can’t kill a billion innocent people, and expect your salvation to be intact. If that were true, then love would have no purpose. It must be love with justice. He will love you ALL THE TIME, in the fact that you can be forgiven, but not in the situation I said just earlier unless you repent.
  2. Homosexuality cannot be conclusively said to be innate or in born. Personal rationalization may make it seem so, but that doesn’t make it true. If the Bible and God’s word, and Magisterium oppose homosexuality, then it is so. No if ands or buts about it. Only option is to remain chaste then in your sexual actions, if you must remain homosexual inside. Hate the sin, not the sinner.
 
It’s hard enough being Catholic in this world, and even harder to raise Catholic children when their culture is telling them that everything we believe in is wrong. I know God’s law is above civic law, but why would I support civic laws that conflict with God’s law? I’m going to do everything I can to give my children an environment that is supportive, and that includes voting against any legislation that contradicts Catholic beliefs. I think it is part of our Christian duty to work for a world that supports Christ’s teaching.
If you aren’t reading one already, get yourself a Catholic newspaper like Our Sunday Visitor, also available online. That way, you will have the Catholic perspective. That way, your children will be able to view the world from a Catholic perspective as they grow older. Sometimes, the secular media presents religious people as acting only from belief, as if we do not understand why we should stand on one side or the other on an issue. Be informed. The Church is very good at explaining the reasonableness of Her positions.

Also, read the Catechism. It will answer a lot of questions.

Peace,
Ed
 
I agree that homosexuals should allow to enter into a “union” if they wish to do so. I believe that if they choose to live their lives with another of the same sex they should do so with all the same legal rights as a man and wife couple. Legal, I mean, when it comes to hospitalization rights to visits, knowledge of medical records and procedures to be done. The ability to decide weather or not something should or should not be done if that person they are with is incapciated and so forth.

HOWEVER, that being said, I do not think that MARRIAGE should be used for Gay couples. Marriage, to me, means that when the couple copulates, they knowingly and willfully are preparing for the coming of another life, their child. A gay couple can not be united it such a way that they will bring forth life. Heck, even the word union should not be used because they can not be “united” as one flesh when it comes to bringing forth a child. The sex itself is the unity of the marriage a man and a woman has. They are telling GOD they are willing to accept a child if a child is born of that union.

Instead of using the word marriage maybe there should be another word for gay couples wishing to be together forever.
I am a Catholic. And I believe that Gay Marriage, as a civil institution, should be legal in the United States of America.

It is abundantly clear that secular society has a view of marriage that is vastly different than the Church. God is not brought into many marriages. People marry and divorce at will. People carry infidelity in their minds and bodies.

Marriage, as a civil institution, is a contract. It is no different than a contract between a labor union and employer. In other words, it often holds absolutely no spiritual value. God is rarely present. God is not required to be present.

In this context, it is discriminatory to not allow homosexuals to take part in this institution.

I support the Churches teaching on homosexuality. Even more so, I support the Churches teaching on marriage.

However, if same sex couples want to have a civil marriage that is their right. The Church should not concern itself.
 
I agree totally with you, jjdrury. Marriage as a civil institution should be legal for gay couples. If one doesn’t believe in gay marriage as a civil union – I have a great idea: have a heterosexual marriage yourself!

We, as Catholics, should not expect this country to legislate our views toward marriage. No religion should expect this. What if Islamic people insisted all American women be veiled? What if Orthodox Jews insisted all groceries in supermarkets be Kosher?

We Catholics may also have the notion that the purpose of a sexual experience is producing another child. Other Americans disagree.

We need to vote according to our consciences, we can demonstrate or speak out if we so choose – but to me, bottom line: This is a civil matter. If we have faith-centered beliefs about marriage, that is our private business and is between us, our church, and God.

Alisa
 
I agree totally with you, jjdrury. Marriage as a civil institution should be legal for gay couples. If one doesn’t believe in gay marriage as a civil union – I have a great idea: have a heterosexual marriage yourself!

We, as Catholics, should not expect this country to legislate our views toward marriage. No religion should expect this. What if Islamic people insisted all American women be veiled? What if Orthodox Jews insisted all groceries in supermarkets be Kosher?

We Catholics may also have the notion that the purpose of a sexual experience is producing another child. Other Americans disagree.

We need to vote according to our consciences, we can demonstrate or speak out if we so choose – but to me, bottom line: This is a civil matter. If we have faith-centered beliefs about marriage, that is our private business and is between us, our church, and God.

Alisa
With all due respect, you make it seem complicated when really it is simple. State marriage has always been between a man and a woman. It’s nothing new. How are Christians pushing our beliefs on the state when it has “always” been between one man and one woman? That’s the point. They’re taking a foundational institution of our country and trying to change what has always been the same for hundreds of years. This is not new, we are not trying to change anything, they are. It’s been this way for awhile now. Gee, wonder why? No one is coming in and saying you now have to have it between one man and one woman, it’s always been that way! It is part of our American culture (and many many others). It’s as normal as apple pie and baseball!

I will not stand by and let immorality rule the day in my country. They’re already trying to legalize incest in Europe. What other deviant group will come forward now demanding its rights? I’ll stick with what the Catholic church teaches.

“Choose life then and live!” Deuteronomy 30
 
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