M
MarkInOregon
Guest
I think a quick search through the history books and a look at how societies that “evolve[d] in humane ways” have done–might disprove this notion.
Peace
- Status
Peace
E
edwest2
Guest
This is exactly right. Some people are attempting to not only legalize what is immoral but encourage everyone of every age to do it too. And then they complain when anyone tries to talk about God and witness to the truth.
Having grown up in the late 1950s and 1960s, I saw communities that lived restraint, good manners and decency. It was taught to us kids. And it was reflected in the media. Today, all of the bad is being celebrated. Try it! You’ll like it! You should be how we are. And the media is spewing anti-Christian and anti-religion messages all the time. TV characters are generally profoundly dysfunctional. There are no role models.
Speak up and live according to your Catholic upbringing.
Peace,
Ed
Having grown up in the late 1950s and 1960s, I saw communities that lived restraint, good manners and decency. It was taught to us kids. And it was reflected in the media. Today, all of the bad is being celebrated. Try it! You’ll like it! You should be how we are. And the media is spewing anti-Christian and anti-religion messages all the time. TV characters are generally profoundly dysfunctional. There are no role models.
Speak up and live according to your Catholic upbringing.
Peace,
Ed
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
I applaud every thought in your post and have only one problem with it, which is a problem throughout the discussion.
You refer to ‘gay people’ to mean homosexuals. ‘Gay’ is not a noun and I’d like to see us recapture our language from those who have hi-jacked it. ‘Gay’ means happy and lighthearted. It does not mean homosexual. Can we say ‘gay’ when we mean gay and ‘homosexual’ when we mean homosexual? Spread the word. Thanks.
L
ladybri77
Guest
We are not judging anyone, we are judging the behavior. Love the sinner, hate the sin, that is the Christian way. We must judge a sin to be sin so that our society won’t be overrun by immorality. Laws are already in place to protect us from certain deviant behaviors or sins like pedophilia, incestual relationships and polygamy, for the common good of the society.
We, as Catholic Christians cannot sit idly by while immorality corrodes are culture. Children are already being indoctrinated in schools to accept homosexuality as okay, those are not the values I would teach them. It is good to tell them to accept everyone and treat everyone with compassion no matter how different they are, but it is not right to tell them it is okay.
Homosexuality is not genetic, it has never been scientifically proven. Psychological and environmental causes are most likely. That doesn’t mean that genetic factors don’t exist, but no one has ever proven it.
I myself have struggled with this. But since I have learned a personal lesson, that it is harmful to my emotional and spiritual health, and I do not want to sin against God, I have chosen to remain celibate as GOD AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH call all of us to do if we are single.
There is a Catholic support group for those who struggle with same sex attraction called Courage. They come together for prayer, support and encouragement. I was a part of this for awhile. There is also a group called Exodus that is for the same.
There are plenty of believers who are same sex strugglers, Catholic and otherwise, who have chosen to remain celibate as the church and God calls them to do to honor God and ourselves.
Paul was speaking of all people who turn away from God to engage in that behavior no matter what the reason is. Believe me, it’s an attraction that we didn’t choose because of psychological reasons, but we have the choice to act on it or not. It is a sin no matter what the cause. And everyone can certainly control their behavior!
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
That depends on who is your bishop. But in any event, your message is brilliant and on the nose. Send your idea to Cardinal George, president of the bishops’ organization. He’s a bit weak-kneed, so send a copy to Archbishop Chaput, who is a warrior.
There’s no question our bishops are going to have to summon up some spine if we are to avoid extinction in this country. Praying it doesn’t get worse isn’t cutting it.
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
You’re right, of course, but I have a solution for you. Brain-wash your babies before someone else does. IOW, teach them right from wrong and reinforce it constantly. Not only will no one will be able to get at them, they’ll be able to defend what you teach them.Isn’t it ironic how people don’t want us to “force our beliefs on society”, yet society continually tries to ram their secular humanist relativism beliefs down our throats. They nab society’s young, impressionable, innocent chidren so early and start their ramming as soon as they hit the age of reason! RAM, RAM, RAM! And we parents are supposed to sit idly by and be “tolerant” while they brainwash our babies.
F
Ferde_Rombola
Guest
Hollywood is the epicenter of the homosexual agenda. Prime-time sitcom is their principle vehicle. If we really want to speak up, we will write the sponsors of those sit-coms and advise them we will no longer purchase their products as long as they are contributing to the destruction of our moral values. Money is all they understand. If enough of us contact them, they will change their habits.
Peace,
Ed
S
sedonaman
Guest
The Church teaches no such thing. Besides, maybe fear is justified. alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=4944
Janet Napolitano thinks people are terrorists if they are against abortion, same sex “marriage”, and other things. thomasmore.org/qry/page.taf?id=19
We’ve been fed this exact same line in one form or another for the last 40 years. The government is now working on stripping rights from Catholic [and other] medical service providers who refuse to perform abortions and dispense the morning after pill. Justice Scalia predicted correctly that legalization of sodomy would soon be followed by demands for recognition of sodomite marriage. Is it going to turn out different this time? Will Lucy not jerk the football from Charlie Brown? What kind of fools do you think we are that we can’t connect the dots ?
What kind of a world do you live in?
“What started as a demand for basic civil rights has mutated into a demand to overturn the whole society, along with its traditions and norms, its standards and laws, its history and heroes.”
L
ladybri77
Guest
This is a post from another poster on another thread called “The issue of gay marriage” -
“In Canada children are being taught that homosexuality is a viable alternative lifestyle.That you shouldn`t knock it if you havent tried it. A Scandanavian study showed that practicing homosexual men had an average lifespan almost 20 years shorter than heterosexuals. I wonder if smoking showed a similer shortend life span ,would our Canadian schools endorse it as a viable alternative lifestyle? Not likely! The real intolerence here is that children are being denied the right to both a father and a mother when adopted by homosexuals.”
Excellent!
“In Canada children are being taught that homosexuality is a viable alternative lifestyle.That you shouldn`t knock it if you havent tried it. A Scandanavian study showed that practicing homosexual men had an average lifespan almost 20 years shorter than heterosexuals. I wonder if smoking showed a similer shortend life span ,would our Canadian schools endorse it as a viable alternative lifestyle? Not likely! The real intolerence here is that children are being denied the right to both a father and a mother when adopted by homosexuals.”
Excellent!
F
FromTheCrossroa
Guest
I do not accept the love the sinner hate the sin mantra because most Christians do not practice it. Secondly, polygamy is illegal not because its so immoral as much as it is the tradition of western culture to have one wife only. David who was called :“a man after God’s own heart” had hundreds of wives and mistresses. Incest and pedophilia and polygamy are different. They are usually brought up to justify one’s distaste for the homosexual (and their deviant behavior) and it isn’t.
We as Catholics certainly can stand by when the world does its own thing. God created every human being with free choice. Are we going back to the dark ages to fix the problem?
No school I have personal experience with forces sexual education on you, nor do they force your children to accept what they are taught by the public school. School districts are so afraid of law suits these days that your child can’t even bring a cough drop to school much less be forced to read a controversial book. As a parent, you have a responsibility to be actively involved in your school so that it reflects your values. The only time a school steps in is when the parents don’t. Unfortunately, that happens way too often these days.
Lastly, if “we certainly could” control our behaviors, none of us would sin in the first place. While I commend you for being celibate and you feel you are doing right by God, I don’t believe that choice is right or possible for everyone. The organizations you mention fail (more often than not) to “cure” homosexuality and the abuse within the church happens precisely because people can’t control their “behaviors”. Which is better for a homosexual who can’t “control” their behavior? Should they marry a woman and pretend they are a man when they sleep with them? Should they have kids for Catholic’s sake only to subject them to a parent/parents who are not equipped to have a foundation for a real, lasting marriage (as we are accustomed to)? What should a person do if they can’t control themselves? Try to be in a monogamous relationship or be with multiple random partners? Should they kill themselves to stop sinning? Telling a man starving to death not to steal a loaf of bread is in my humble opinion, an unnecessary injustice.
To Ed:
If you have any gay friends or family members, you would know that homosexuality tends to run in families, and is more prevalent when the mother is older and has had more than one child. There isn’t definitive “proof” that homosexuality is just a condition of the mind.
R
RosaryFan
Guest
You are absolutely right - and I pray every day that I’m successful. I also consecrated her to the Blessed Mother. Since she’s the best mother I know, I figured she wouldn’t mind having one more
E
EnchantedEve
Guest
You are 100% right. I will take this one further: take your children out of government propaganda centers (commonly referred to as public schools). My father is a government school teacher and their agenda is worse than you can imagine. Send your children to them to learn life and you have already given up, you have already lost.
Also, avoid television. Read a book instead. Hollywood cannot get to you there!
Or, if you must watch television (my wife cannot seem to kick it) do not let your children. As soon as you get hooked it is impossible to get away. Hollywood will erode you until your militancy is lost. Do not let this happen to your children.
R
RosaryFan
Guest
Yes! I agree. I send my daughter to Catholic school. I always joke that if tuition gets any higher, I’d have to sell a kidney to keep her in there. I joke, but I think I seriously would! The alternative scares me to no end.You are 100% right. I will take this one further: take your children out of government propaganda centers (commonly referred to as public schools). My father is a government school teacher and their agenda is worse than you can imagine. Send your children to them to learn life and you have already given up, you have already lost.
Also, avoid television. Read a book instead. Hollywood cannot get to you there!
Or, if you must watch television (my wife cannot seem to kick it) do not let your children. As soon as you get hooked it is impossible to get away. Hollywood will erode you until your militancy is lost. Do not let this happen to your children.
We also have a “No TV after dinner” rule. And her TV before dinner is heavily monitored. We stick mostly to the Boomerang channel (cartoons from the 70s) which, for the most part, seems harmless (so far).
Reading as an alternative and family games/activities are key.
However, these are the types of things where we cease having control once the kids get older and become more independent. They become wiser and figure out ways to get around our rules (I remember my teen years all too well). They visit friends and watch restricted TV at their house; they’re not under constant adult supervision anymore and they’re testing the waters and pushing their boundaries. We can hope that what we’ve taught them sticks, but sometimes it doesn’t. I really think the only guarantee is consecrating them to Mary.
B
brandymmiller
Guest
The state treats married people differently because marriage is fundamentally ordered toward child rearing, whereas those who are single are not expected to be raising children.
The state has an interest in what happens to those children; how, when, and by whom they are raised impacts the future generation tremendously since it has a very large impact on the children’s development. This is the reason it gives special benefits to those who are married, acknowledging the burden they have assumed and the difficulties raising a family presents.
S
sedonaman
Guest
It’s up to the social innovator to justify his proposed change in society; it is not up to those who favor the status quo to justify why not. So far, I have not seen a single justification that doesn’t amount to “why not”.
L
ladybri77
Guest
Everyone can control their behavior if they want to. The ones you refer to choose not to. It is taking personal responsibility to choose one’s behavior if one wants to live by the life-giving principles sent forth by God’s Word.
The organizations I eluded to are not out to “change” the behavior. Please see Couragerc.net and Exodus International. Courage helps the struggler to remain celibate through prayer and encouragement, nothing more. Also, please see Narth.com to read about environmental and psychological causation.
L
ladybri77
Guest
I have stated the justification as to “why not” in many of my posts. See also brandymiller’s post above.
S
sedonaman
Guest
By accepting the burden of proof, you have fallen into their debating trap.
E
EnchantedEve
Guest
Good thought. I am hoping that, in addition to what you say, having a firm foundation and knowledge of the world from home will make them less likely to be taken in than they might otherwise be. Let us hope!
P
Polaris
Guest
You actually believe Paul Cameron? Start questioning everything.
Here is some information for you to digest. Dr Cameron is a man with an agenda and his “data” is bunk.
Danish study:
boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/11/13/6228
More about the source of the twenty:
boxturtlebulletin.com/category/activists-anti-gay/paul-cameron
- Status