Gay Marriage Debate

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healinghands99 said:
But why were all of the disciples male.
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Because God identifies as a He, Jesus was a He, men are commanded to be the leaders of their families and be the religious heads of their homes, and the culture of the day demanded it be men. There are, I am sure, many other reasons, but ultimately it doesn’t matter and to make it a bigger deal than it actually was is silliness personified.
healinghands99 said:
It isn’t as if he was living in an all boys boarding school, right? I’m just wondering… 12 male, no female seems like more than just a coincidence…
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No female? This reveals to me you have done little research into the ministry of Jesus. He regularly had a large crowd surrounding him, including women such as his mother Mary. This imaginary coincidence is just that, imaginary.
healinghands99 said:
However, one thing that may go against this hypothesis is that Judas reacted like a scorned lover when Jesus refused his advances.
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Wow! The depths of depravity people go when planting the seeds of doubt (on stone I may add). A scorned lover you say? Interesting. You do realize, or perhaps you don’t, you completely ignore the fact Jesus had no sin in His life, he was God in the flesh, no sexual desire and withstood the onslaught of temptation from Satan himself, yet, someone you unconvincingly suggest where all the temptations of the world, no - the universe, and the master of lies failed, the weak and selfish Judas succeeded. Just wow! You also forget Jesus foretold of his betrayal as he did of a many things. What an imagination you have, only rivaled by that of the LDS and their ideas.

I am curious…do all homosexual lovers, when scornful, turn their former lovers over to murderers for money?

Oh, and what advances?
 
frobert said:
There are over 1000 federal benefits available through marriage, hospital rights, asses sharing ,etc, etc are just the tip of the iceberg. If you are asking will a civil union do, legal expects don’t think so for many reasons because of the confusion it would cause among the states from have two different marriage laws. I am only familiar with the concept but not the details nor is it something that I am interested in as the SSM movement now appears to be in its final stages. My guess, from what I have read, is that there will be a definitive ruling by the Supreme Court in the 2017-18 period. It could be longer but I don’t think it will be shorter.
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Other jurisdictions outside the US have enabled vast swathes of ‘rights’ for couples who are not married, whether they be defacto relationships or homosexual couples. My observation is that the SSM advocates want the rights (many of which are not unreasonable) AND the badge of “Marriage”.

And just to repeat one of my pet issues, financial/tax breaks that accrue to married persons (in some jurisdictions) should be eliminated. Such breaks properly exist to assist with upbringing of children, and they should flow when there actually are children!
 
Rau said:
Other jurisdictions outside the US have enabled vast swathes of ‘rights’ for couples who are not married, whether they be defacto relationships or homosexual couples. My observation is that the SSM advocates want the rights (many of which are not unreasonable) AND the badge of “Marriage”.

And just to repeat one of my pet issues, financial/tax breaks that accrue to married persons (in some jurisdictions) should be eliminated. Such breaks properly exist to assist with upbringing of children, and they should flow when there actually are children!
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As I said in my previous comment I am only familiar with the concept but not the details of civil unions vs marriage. If you are interested in a legal perspective may I suggest “Redeeming the Dream: The Case for Marriage Equality” by Theodore B Olson and David Boies. Olson a conservative and Boies a liberal are leading US legal experts.
 
edwest2 said:
Absolutely right, but let’s be aware of a few things that led up to all this. It’s all documented:…

Know this, my friends. Gay divorce is happening. Gay people are people too, and like us, are not close to perfect. But thanks to the social engineering program that started some decades ago, they think they have an advantage? We’re all in the same boat folks. Our only way out - for all of us - is to repent, turn our back on the world, and return to God, humble and penitent.

Peace,
Ed
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That we live in a dysfunctional society and world is evident.There are varied reasons why. To me one of the main reasons if not the main one is the belief in unlimited growth in a finite world. Both liberal and conservative agendas not only believe it but demand it. The social engineering that you speak of is not a LGBT thing but a government thing. It can be summed up as “Bread and circuses.”
“Bread and circuses” (or bread and games) (from Latin: panem et circenses) is metonymic for a superficial means of appeasement. In the case of politics, the phrase is used to describe the creation of public approval, not through exemplary or excellent public service or public policy, but through diversion; distraction; or the mere satisfaction of the immediate, shallow requirements of a populace,[1] as an offered “palliative.” Juvenal decried it as a simplistic motivation of common people.[2][3][4] The phrase also implies the erosion or ignorance of civic duty amongst the concerns of the commoner.
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Source: Bread and Circuses
 
frobert said:
As I said in my previous comment I am only familiar with the concept but not the details of civil unions vs marriage. If you are interested in a legal perspective may I suggest “Redeeming the Dream: The Case for Marriage Equality” by Theodore B Olson and David Boies. Olson a conservative and Boies a liberal are leading US legal experts.
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I just downloaded the Kindle edition of “Redeeming the Dream” and hope to read it on the plane Tuesday. The pair of opposites such as Olson and Boies working together is facinating.:rolleyes:
 
Nacho45 said:
Because God identifies as a He, Jesus was a He, men are commanded to be the leaders of their families and be the religious heads of their homes, and the culture of the day demanded it be men. There are, I am sure, many other reasons, but ultimately it doesn’t matter and to make it a bigger deal than it actually was is silliness personified.

No female? This reveals to me you have done little research into the ministry of Jesus. He regularly had a large crowd surrounding him, including women such as his mother Mary. This imaginary coincidence is just that, imaginary.

Wow! The depths of depravity people go when planting the seeds of doubt (on stone I may add). A scorned lover you say? Interesting. You do realize, or perhaps you don’t, you completely ignore the fact Jesus had no sin in His life, he was God in the flesh, no sexual desire and withstood the onslaught of temptation from Satan himself, yet, someone you unconvincingly suggest where all the temptations of the world, no - the universe, and the master of lies failed, the weak and selfish Judas succeeded. Just wow! You also forget Jesus foretold of his betrayal as he did of a many things. What an imagination you have, only rivaled by that of the LDS and their ideas.

I am curious…do all homosexual lovers, when scornful, turn their former lovers over to murderers for money?

Oh, and what advances?
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For starters, I am very disturbed by your attitude! We are all entitled to our own opinions but you have to be more civilized!

Jesus loves everyone. Doesn’t this mean that he loves men? Maybe Jesus was bisexual!
 
frobert said:
As I said in my previous comment I am only familiar with the concept but not the details of civil unions vs marriage. If you are interested in a legal perspective may I suggest “Redeeming the Dream: The Case for Marriage Equality” by Theodore B Olson and David Boies. Olson a conservative and Boies a liberal are leading US legal experts.
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A gay marriage debate where reasonable alternatives won’t be considered due to lack of familiarity:shrug:
 
healinghands99 said:
Would it be just to condemn homosexuality? These things are uncertain. For this reason, I hesitate to make the judgments myself when I know that God’s will certainly be more fair than mine.

A judge makes judgments based on things which we know (for certain) are immoral; murder, for example, is immoral without question. However, we cannot be sure that homosexuality is immoral, so I say it’s best we leave God to make that choice.

God Bless.

P.S.: I don’t think Jesus is homosexual, I’m just thinking that it may be possible. Cheers
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We can be sure the behavior is immoral. We cannot judge individual homosexual persons but when they “marry,” they provide open scandal to all. Read what the Church Teaches:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Ed
 
Rau said:
A gay marriage debate where reasonable alternatives won’t be considered due to lack of familiarity:shrug:
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Re-read the reason I suggested the book. Hint, It was not for a marriage debate.
 
Describing Olsen as a “conservative” is interesting to me. I don’t know what his conservatism consists of since he is evidently not interested in conserving marriage the way it’s pretty much always-and-everywhere been understood. Oh, but I guess he hates taxes or something?
 
frobert said:
That we live in a dysfunctional society and world is evident.There are varied reasons why. To me one of the main reasons if not the main one is the belief in unlimited growth in a finite world. Both liberal and conservative agendas not only believe it but demand it. The social engineering that you speak of is not a LGBT thing but a government thing. It can be summed up as “Bread and circuses.”

Source: Bread and Circuses
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I disagree. I saw the very rapid (5 year period) divide between the normal and abnormal occur right in front of me. I lived through it. I watched it happen. I knew it was wrong. To quote one religious, “You want to tear down everything and replace it with nothing.” Life is easy when there are no standards, no right and wrong, no shame, guilt or sin. Gay marriage is the end result of creating the new opium dens for heterosexuals and spending millions of dollars doing it. We were encouraged by the wolves among us. They led us to spiritual slaughter while all the while saying, “It’s better. It’s OK. It’s more pleasurable. It’s the easy way out. And, most importantly, legal.”

So, gradually, as time passed, aided by the media, more and more took the bait and found themselves addicted to illegal drugs, addicted to sex with fornicators, addicted to masturbation and mentally infected by watching hundreds or thousands of hours of addictive porn. It was all planned for the eventual “triumph.” People who claim to be Christian living like pagans, and the SSM supporters dropping by to tell us how badly “we” messed up marriage over the last 40 years. And while it’s true that if we did wrong, we did do wrong, but we got a lot of pressure from all media to accept worse and worse behaviors as time passed. Things did not become dysfunctional overnight. The opening song to Family Guy sums up the plan when it spits on “Those values on which we used to rely.” Whoever wrote that was and is part of the problem.

The only way some of us survived that time period and kept promoting what worked - normalcy, had to begin by abandoning the media. I’ve started throwing books in the trash, strictly limiting any TV watching and seeing one, maybe two movies a year. There are books and magazines I will never buy and a bunch of web sites I will never visit again. Music? I’ve stopped listening to it. It’s garbage, for the most part. As part of my job, I observe what the media is doing on a daily basis, and the conclusion is simple: embrace darkness, embrace the graphic, embrace cold, heartless killing. Embrace the necessity of killing babies in the womb and immoral sex.

Embrace SSM, soon to be followed by Transgender Marriage - if it’s not already happening. Freedom never meant anyone can do whatever they want. We know, deep down, what’s right and wrong. So, I, for one, am tired of anyone posting promos for SSM on a Catholic web site. I mean, millions of voters voting for nothing. Our permission was never required.

Peace,
Ed
 
healinghands99 said:
For starters, I am very disturbed by your attitude! We are all entitled to our own opinions but you have to be more civilized!

Jesus loves everyone. Doesn’t this mean that he loves men? Maybe Jesus was bisexual!
Click to expand...
My attitude? I am sorry you dislike it when someone calls you out on some pseudo-theology you are trying to pass as legitimate. You make accusations for which you have absolutely no support. I find that disturbing and of poor attitude. Jesus was not bisexual, another empty claim. You have a lot of “maybes” of no value.

Why not try to find some actual evidence to back up your opinions. You certainly are entitled to them, but what I can’t figure out is how they were developed using any type of academic process. Thus far you have offered nothing.

If I may suggest, instead of finding ways to bend reality to fit into a desire, take a close, hard, serious look at what actually happened, the evidence that really does exist, historical records from Christian and non-Christian sources alike. I trust if you do you will come away with a different opinion.
 
edwest2 said:
I disagree. I saw the very rapid (5 year period) divide between the normal and abnormal occur right in front of me. I lived through it. I watched it happen. I knew it was wrong. To quote one religious, “You want to tear down everything and replace it with nothing.” Life is easy when there are no standards, no right and wrong, no shame, guilt or sin. Gay marriage is the end result of creating the new opium dens for heterosexuals and spending millions of dollars doing it. We were encouraged by the wolves among us. They led us to spiritual slaughter while all the while saying, “It’s better. It’s OK. It’s more pleasurable. It’s the easy way out. And, most importantly, legal.”

So, gradually, as time passed, aided by the media, more and more took the bait and found themselves addicted to illegal drugs, addicted to sex with fornicators, addicted to masturbation and mentally infected by watching hundreds or thousands of hours of addictive porn. It was all planned for the eventual “triumph.” People who claim to be Christian living like pagans, and the SSM supporters dropping by to tell us how badly “we” messed up marriage over the last 40 years. And while it’s true that if we did wrong, we did do wrong, but we got a lot of pressure from all media to accept worse and worse behaviors as time passed. Things did not become dysfunctional overnight. The opening song to Family Guy sums up the plan when it spits on “Those values on which we used to rely.” Whoever wrote that was and is part of the problem.

The only way some of us survived that time period and kept promoting what worked - normalcy, had to begin by abandoning the media. I’ve started throwing books in the trash, strictly limiting any TV watching and seeing one, maybe two movies a year. There are books and magazines I will never buy and a bunch of web sites I will never visit again. Music? I’ve stopped listening to it. It’s garbage, for the most part. As part of my job, I observe what the media is doing on a daily basis, and the conclusion is simple: embrace darkness, embrace the graphic, embrace cold, heartless killing. Embrace the necessity of killing babies in the womb and immoral sex.

Embrace SSM, soon to be followed by Transgender Marriage - if it’s not already happening. Freedom never meant anyone can do whatever they want. We know, deep down, what’s right and wrong. So, I, for one, am tired of anyone posting promos for SSM on a Catholic web site. I mean, millions of voters voting for nothing. Our permission was never required.

Peace,
Ed
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Ed…thank you!!! It’s refreshing to see someone boldly post the truth. I only wish more would follow the example.
 
Nacho45 said:
My attitude? I am sorry you dislike it when someone calls you out on some pseudo-theology you are trying to pass as legitimate. You make accusations for which you have absolutely no support. I find that disturbing and of poor attitude. Jesus was not bisexual, another empty claim. You have a lot of “maybes” of no value.

Why not try to find some actual evidence to back up your opinions. You certainly are entitled to them, but what I can’t figure out is how they were developed using any type of academic process. Thus far you have offered nothing.

If I may suggest, instead of finding ways to bend reality to fit into a desire, take a close, hard, serious look at what actually happened, the evidence that really does exist, historical records from Christian and non-Christian sources alike. I trust if you do you will come away with a different opinion.
Click to expand...
We are all the Lord’s children. All I’m asking is that you be a little less glum! Think of all the discoveries that we couldn’t have made without free thinkers.
 
healinghands99 said:
We are all the Lord’s children. All I’m asking is that you be a little less glum! Think of all the discoveries that we couldn’t have made without free thinkers.
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We are indeed, no disagreement there. I would ask you be more realistic, there is joy in truth. When I think of freethinkers I usually ponder the irrevocable damage inflicted on society.
 
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