Gay Marriage in America

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Obviously in institutions not in union with Rome. Not judging, just stating the facts based on your posts. 🙂
Well, Oxford is not in union with Rome, but it doesn’t need to be. But the Franciscan, Dominican, and Jesuit institutions are in communion with Rome. And my bishop is also in communion with Rome.
 
FYI, I don’t answer inquisitions. But I was trained at Oxford and other universities, and my theology professors have included Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits, Anglicans, Presbyterians, and Catholic diocesan priests.
Why so defensive? You portray yourself as a Catholic theologian and spread heretical viewpoints, we should know what you mean by “theologian”. And when I asked what school, I was not asking what university you studied, but the school of theological formation. Thomist? Augustinian? Darwinian? Dawkinian?
 
It’s no more a pretend family than is a “family” which includes infertile heterosexuals who have adopted children. Both are real families by any definition except a bigoted exclusive “nuclear family” definition.
So the infallible Magisterium is bigoted?
 
It’s no more a pretend family than is a “family” which includes infertile heterosexuals who have adopted children. Both are real families by any definition except a bigoted exclusive “nuclear family” definition.
I believe that we’ve gone completely off topic and here is why I think this: I do not believe that there are any Catholic advocates of **removing **children from homes where they are already placed/born.

The issue is this: if SSM is legally recognized, then no organization would be allowed to deny a SS couple the right to a **future **adoption. Since many believe that a SS couple is not in the best interest of the child, this would cause a conflict. So instead of being able to continue placing children according to their belief system, the government would step in and control the process.
 
Heresy is a mortal sin. Therefore, all unrepentant heretics, at the time of death, go to Hell.
I had to laugh when I received news last January about my first formal heresy denunciation! Since 2009 I have been (1) publicly labelled a “stupid theist” by atheist Jerry Coyne, (2) declared to be the AntiChrist by a follower of the Discovery Institute in Seattle, (3) attacked by Richard Dawkins for arguing that a faithful Catholic may accept the biological theory of evolution, and (4) formally denounced as a heretic to the Bishop of the Diocese of Yakima, Washington.

I still need an Islamic fatwa to add to my collection of denunciations, and I’m trying to figure out how to get shunned by the Amish and excommunicated by the Mormons. It will be harder to get denounced by the Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, as they don’t seem to delight in formal denunciations as Christians and atheists do.

StAnastasia
 
Well, Oxford is not in union with Rome, but it doesn’t need to be. But the Franciscan, Dominican, and Jesuit institutions are in communion with Rome. And my bishop is also in communion with Rome.
Yes, these are disputable facts.

But your theological degree is not from one of these institutions in union with Rome.
 
I believe that we’ve gone completely off topic and here is why I think this: I do not believe that there are any Catholic advocates of **removing **

children from homes where they are already placed/born.

I’m glad you think that way, although I have heard the argument made (even here on CAF) that we should snatch children out of the homes of LGBT families.
The issue is this: if SSM is legally recognized, then no organization would be allowed to deny a SS couple the right to a **future **
 
It’s no more a pretend family than is a “family” which includes infertile heterosexuals who have adopted children.
Unlike same sex unions, the infertile heterosexual couples who adopt children have no political agenda towards gender roles.
 
Unlike same sex unions, the infertile heterosexual couples who adopt children have no political agenda towards gender roles.
You don’t know that. It could be that some heterosexual couples who adopt children have a definite political agenda: keeping adoptive children out of LGBT households.
 
So the infallible Magisterium is bigoted?
It’s only bigoted if it refuses to recognize that “family” includes many different forms of household, including single parents.
 
Originally Posted by michelleds
I believe that we’ve gone completely off topic and here is why I think this: I do not believe that there are any Catholic advocates of removing children from homes where they are already placed/born.
Because I’m an attorney and have an understanding of the American legal system, including the US Supremes. If SSM becomes legal, then the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution will automatically kick in and prevent any different treatment of SS couples and OS couples. I might add that those who support civil unions rather than SSM run all the same risks, on a legal field–it might take longer but in all likelihood the Supremes would hold that there is no distinguishing feature between “marriage” and “civil union” that would allow for different treatment. If someone is against SSM, then they should closely analyze why they would support civil unions.
 
Because I’m an attorney and have an understanding of the American legal system, including the US Supremes. If SSM becomes legal, then the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution will automatically kick in and prevent any different treatment of SS couples and OS couples. I might add that those who support civil unions rather than SSM run all the same risks, on a legal field–it might take longer but in all likelihood the Supremes would hold that there is no distinguishing feature between “marriage” and “civil union” that would allow for different treatment. If someone is against SSM, then they should closely analyze why they would support civil unions.
If you can show me why SS couples enjoy all legal protections for themselves and their adoptive or half-biological children, I would be less convinced that we need civil unions. I have read too many horror stories in which one partner is stripped of everything upon the death of the other, because he or she was not allowed to have legal titles to house, car, assets, etc. I have encountered horror stories in which one partner was excluded from the bedside of the dying loved one by that person’s biological family.

If you can show me how LGBT people can be protected from such travesties, I will gladly relinquish my defense of civil unions.

StAnastasia
 
If you can show me why SS couples enjoy all legal protections for themselves and their adoptive or half-biological children, I would be less convinced that we need civil unions. I have read too many horror stories in which one partner is stripped of everything upon the death of the other, because he or she was not allowed to have legal titles to house, car, assets, etc. I have encountered horror stories in which one partner was excluded from the bedside of the dying loved one by that person’s biological family.

If you can show me how LGBT people can be protected from such travesties, I will gladly relinquish my defense of civil unions.

StAnastasia
I think writing a will would be a start. Hospital visitation rights and such are things that would just take effort to make happen. Putting titles to cars, houses, etc in both names would also be beneficial. These things are smart to do even for married couples.
 
I think you might be unclear as to what a heretic is. According to the CCC (see my earlier post). A heretic is a Catholic baptized person who willfully and obstinately rejects the teachings of the Church. A person born outside the faith is not a heretic. For example, Arius was a heretic. If he had any children who he raised as Arians, they would not be heretics.

There is a difference between declaring a person damned and teaching what sins lead to damnation if unrepented at the hour of death.
Actually, I think the problem lies in the definition of mortal sin. Mortal sin is a knowing break with God that is serious enough to prevent the acceptance of saving grace. A person that leaves the Catholic Church for another faith because he believes that faith is true and therefore will bring him closer to God is not knowingly rejecting God, thus doing so would not be a mortal sin in that instance.
 
… I have encountered horror stories in which one partner was excluded from the bedside of the dying loved one by that person’s biological family.
…
And that’s all they are: stories.
Civil & Legal Rights Claims
When the issue of homosexuals routinely being denied the right to visit their partners in hospitals was raised during debate over the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, the Family Research Council did an informal survey of nine hospitals in four states and the District of Columbia. None of the administrators surveyed could recall a single case in which a visitor was barred because of their [sic] homosexuality, and they were incredulous that this would even be considered an issue.
Peter Sprigg, “What’s Wrong with Letting Same-Sex Couples Marry?” Family Research Council, In Focus: Issue No. 256.
Several years ago, my wife an I went to a hospital where a friend was dying. When we arrived, we said we were there to visit Mrs. So-and-So. Without asking if we were family, or any questions at all, we were immediately [if not sooner] escorted to Mrs. So-and-So’s room.

These are why I have trouble believing your “story”. It is just fabricated hearsay with a political motive. And like most falsehoods, it circled the globe before truth had a chance to get on its pants.
 
Yes. The lurkers are warned.
My apologies. You have told me this in another thread. In the same thread you had also told me that teach in a Catholic Seminary.

My response to your post letting me know the above statistics about you was that I have an atheist friend who teaches (at least at the time of my post) theology at the local Jesuit university (ever hear of Rob Phoenix)? He’s also in my parish and attends mass regularly.
 
I think writing a will would be a start. Hospital visitation rights and such are things that would just take effort to make happen. Putting titles to cars, houses, etc in both names would also be beneficial. These things are smart to do even for married couples.
Yes, that’s an excellent thing to do.
 
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