Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

[ladybri77]

Then by that reasoning you are not a heterosexual but someone with heterosexual tendencies. Regardless there is no need for healing in this area as it is not a sickness in need of one.

God made us all to be heterosexual, it’s because of the flesh, the world and Satan that we’re not. Being heterosexual is just a part of me, it’s not a weakness. My homosexual tendencies are a weakness for me, but through which God can use to bring Him glory and me healing. It’s a symptom of a greater dis-ease in me. It is an example of a thorn in the flesh, something to keep me humble and dependent on Him. He can use my weakness for His purpose, maybe to bring someone else to Him but especially to keep me depending on His strength.

 

[goofyjim]

God made us all to be heterosexual, it’s because of the flesh, the world and Satan that we’re not. Being heterosexual is just a part of me, it’s not a weakness. My homosexual tendencies are a weakness for me, but through which God can use to bring Him glory and me healing. It’s a symptom of a greater dis-ease in me. It is an example of a thorn in the flesh, something to keep me humble and dependent on Him. He can use my weakness for His purpose, maybe to bring someone else to Him but especially to keep me depending on His strength.

Unless I am capitulating to those desires they are not a weakness. They are not in need of healing. Let’s not pretend that the only way to get to heaven is to be 100% heterosexual. I have known heterosexual people who are weak as well. Why not say their heterosexual tendencies are a weakness?

 

[court14]

God made us all to be heterosexual, it’s because of the flesh, the world and Satan that we’re not. Being heterosexual is just a part of me, it’s not a weakness. My homosexual tendencies are a weakness for me, but through which God can use to bring Him glory and me healing. It’s a symptom of a greater dis-ease in me. It is an example of a thorn in the flesh, something to keep me humble and dependent on Him. He can use my weakness for His purpose, maybe to bring someone else to Him but especially to keep me depending on His strength.

Part of the flesh? Humanity is flesh so of course anything we do is “of the flesh.”

 

[Bennie_P]

…

Cameron’s credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the **U.S. District Court of Dallas **referred to “Cameron’s sworn statement that ‘homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,’” and concluded that “Dr. Paul Cameron…has himself made misrepresentations to this Court” and that "There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron"

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS … is the American Medical Association considered the authority in the area of pediatrics. The above link states its position.

The opinion of one judge is obvious an opion by an activist judege.
Cameron states in his own words there is limited studies and evn the source you link states it limitations.

Accurate statistics regarding the number of parents who are gay or lesbian are impossible to obtain. The secrecy resulting from the stigma still associated with homosexuality has hampered even basic epidemiologic research. A broad estimate is that between 1 and 9 million children in the United States have at least 1 parent who is lesbian or gay.1

With the use of the word impossible, the "gay agenda marches right along with flase assumptions.

One study that illustrates the problem of homosexuality as relates to abuse to children come straight from the Churches own sex abuse scandal. Please take to read the study. usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/

Another link you might enjoy for the enrichment of your mind

For example;

• Homosexual Alfred Kinsey, the preeminent sexual researcher in the history of sexual research, found in 1948 that 37 percent of all male homosexuals admitted to having sex with children under 17 years old
• A very recent (2000) study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that “The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2-4% of men attracted to adults prefer men. In contrast, around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys. Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 620 times higher among pedophiles.”
• Another 2000 study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that". . . all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories" for sexual activity;’ These age categories were fifteen and twenty years old.
• Yet another recent study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "Pedophilia appears to have a greater than chance association with two other statistically infrequent phenomena. The first of these is homosexuality . . . Recent surveys estimate the prevalence of homosexuality, among men attracted to adults, in the neighborhood of 2%. In contrast, the prevalence of homosexuality among pedophiles may be as high as 30-40%
• A 1989 study in the Journal of Sex Research noted that " . . . the proportion of sex offenders against male children among homosexual men is substantially larger than the proportion of sex offenders against female children among heterosexual men . . . the development of pedophilia is more closely linked with homosexuality than with heterosexuality."
• A 1988 study of 229 convicted child molesters published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that 86% of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.
• In a 1984 Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy article, sex researchers found that “The proportional prevalence of [male] offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent.”
• Homosexual activists Karla Jay and I Allen Young revealed in their 1979 Gay Report that 73% of all homosexuals I have acted as “chicken hawks” — that is, they have preyed on adolescent or younger boys.
• In a 1992 study published in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, sex researchers K. Freud and R. I. Watson found that homosexual males are three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophilia, and that the average pedophile victimizes between 20 and 150 boys before being arrested.12
• A study by sex researchers Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg found that 25% of white homosexual men have had sex with boys sixteen years and younger.13
  There are occasional scientific attempts to deny or obscure the fact that a disproportionately high percentage of active homosexuals also molest children. These studies are invariably afflicted with one or more fatal flaws. A typical example, oft-quoted by gay rights activists,…read the whole article.

Please take the time read before you run to a gay activist sight for more ammo.

**American Psychological Association lost it crediabilty when it took up the gay agenda and declassified homosexual behavior as not having any relationships to psycological disorders, they of course still try put a line, which they don’t know to wheere draw it between homosexual behavior and pedephilia… lets see it is homsexual behavior when a man has sex with 16 year old, but pedephilia when the boy is under the age of ??? were is the invisable line between morality and immorality **

 

[ladybri77]

Part of the flesh? Humanity is flesh so of course anything we do is “of the flesh.”

The flesh here meaning any lust of the flesh, homosexual AS WELL as heterosexual to answer Jim’s question.

 

[pathia]

The opinion of one judge is obvious an opion by an activist judege.
Cameron states in his own words there is limited studies and evn the source you link states it limitations.

With the use of the word impossible, the "gay agenda marches right along with flase assumptions.

One study that illustrates the problem of homosexuality as relates to abuse to children come straight from the Churches own sex abuse scandal. Please take to read the study. usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/

Most pedophiles live an otherwise straight life. Pedophilia is something that is done in addition to their normal sex habits. Every person I know that was molested as a child (unfortunately too many) was molested by a married man who had children and a wife. They were not ‘homosexuals’ they were self identified as straight, except they molested children as well. And if they were gay, they were on the ‘down low’ so to speak. These men marry to hide the fact that they’re gay or pedophiles.

lets see it is homsexual behavior when a man has sex with 16 year old, but pedephilia when the boy is under the age of ??? were is the invisable line between morality and immorality

For thousands of years, if not more, old men would marry girls as young as 12. This was not considered abnormal, in fact it was the norm. As soon as a girl had her first period, she would be married to someone. I look down my family tree and I only have to go back about 100years before I see men of 40 marrying girls of 12-14. By todays standards the majority of men that have ever lived would be pedophiles.

 

[ladybri77]

Unless I am capitulating to those desires they are not a weakness. They are not in need of healing. Let’s not pretend that the only way to get to heaven is to be 100% heterosexual. I have known heterosexual people who are weak as well. Why not say their heterosexual tendencies are a weakness?

God didn’t make heterosexuality to be a weakness, it was His design for us. Any lust is sin, heterosexual or homosexual, that’s what I mean by acting out in the flesh.

 

[Bennie_P]

Most pedophiles live an otherwise straight life. Pedophilia is something that is done in addition to their normal sex habits. Every person I know that was molested as a child (unfortunately too many) was molested by a married man who had children and a wife. They were not ‘homosexuals’ they were self identified as straight, except they molested children as well. And if they were gay, they were on the ‘down low’ so to speak. These men marry to hide the fact that they’re gay or pedophiles.

You know a lot pediphiles do you, intersting. I not making the statement that all homosexuals are pediphiles or vice versa, but both of them may have a problem with setting proper and moral bounderies within thier lives. Where do we draw the line when the line keeps moving?.. or the fence has been totally knocked:shrug: down?

Read the John Jay study.

 

[goofyjim]

God didn’t make heterosexuality to be a weakness, it was His design for us. Any lust is sin, heterosexual or homosexual, that’s what I mean by acting out in the flesh.

But those homosexual tendenies are not the sin. And they are as much a natural part of me as your heterosexual tendencies are a part of you. I willingly cooperate with the grace of God to not act on those tendencies but He has assured me that they are not in need of healing. Sin needs healing and the tendencies alone are not sin.

 

[goofyjim]

You know a lot pediphiles do you, intersting. I not making the statement that all homosexuals are pediphiles or vice versa, but both of them may have a problem with setting proper and moral bounderies within thier lives. Where do we draw the line when the line keeps moving?.. or the fence has been totally knocked:shrug: down?

Read the John Jay study.

Oh by your wrongful conclusions everyone like myself has to be carefully montiored as a potential predator. Hogwash.

 

[pathia]

You know a lot pediphiles do you, intersting. I not making the statement that all homosexuals are pediphiles or vice versa, but both of them may have a problem with setting proper and moral bounderies within thier lives. Where do we draw the line when the line keeps moving?.. or the fence has been totally knocked:shrug: down?

Read the John Jay study.

I know no pedophiles, I know people who were MOLESTED by pedophiles.

You consider homosexuality a moral failing, I do not. Adults can consent to any activity that doesn’t harm anyone else, or only harms themselves.

Children are children, they are incapable of consenting in the manner adults do. There is absolutely zero comparison or relation in my mind. We are discussing apples and oranges, in my world view. Correlation, does not equal causation. Just because many pedophiles target boys, does not mean that gay people target children.

My brother’s wife won’t even let me hold my baby niece because of this conflation of the two. She thinks I’m going to molest her. When I am at their house, she watches me like a hawk and mutters prayers constantly to remove my presence from the household, even if it’s at another house for say, thanksgiving. She won’t make eye contact, she calls me ‘it’ or ‘demon’. If my niece runs up to me, she’ll run in and catch her up before she gets close.

That is my world. You can’t discuss that sort of belief, you can’t challenge it, I can’t even speak to her, she doesn’t respond. You just have to cope.

Doing what you’re doing here, only perpetuates that. I can never be my chosen career because of it, I want to teach, but no school system is ever going to let me near children, despite me not even being remotely sexual with ANYTHING god forbid children.

 

[ladybri77]

But those homosexual tendenies are not the sin. And they are as much a natural part of me as your heterosexual tendencies are a part of you. I willingly cooperate with the grace of God to not act on those tendencies but He has assured me that they are not in need of healing. Sin needs healing and the tendencies alone are not sin.

Right, the tendencies are not a sin, it’s when you act out on them. I believe that the feelings we have are a just a symptom of something more serious going on inside of us. We all sin and have a tendency to sin, but we have been set free from it from His death on the cross. If we accept that and invite Him into our hearts, then we will definitely go to heaven no matter how we “feel”, but have given our hearts to Him.

We all need healing from sin, that’s why He died for us. “We are healed through His stripes”.

 

[goofyjim]

Right, the tendencies are not a sin, it’s when you act out on them. I believe that the feelings we have are a just a symptom of something more serious going on inside of us. We all sin and have a tendency to sin, but we have been set free from it from His death on the cross. If we accept that and invite Him into our hearts, then we will definitely go to heaven no matter how we “feel”, but have given our hearts to Him.

Still, you are treating my sexuality as though it were an illness in need of treatment. There is nothing wrong with me. I have had the homosexual attraction since as early as I could think. It poses no impediment to my ability to function as ahuman being and I have already stated my heart is with God first. And he loves me and accepts me as I am. Not on the condition that I become a functioning heterosexual being.

 

[ladybri77]

Still, you are treating my sexuality as though it were an illness in need of treatment. There is nothing wrong with me. I have had the homosexual attraction since as early as I could think. It poses no impediment to my ability to function as ahuman being and I have already stated my heart is with God first. And he loves me and accepts me as I am. Not on the condition that I become a functioning heterosexual being.

I agree with you there that He loves you just as you are. I think that’s great how fully you accept yourself the way you are and you know that God does too. My situation is a little more complicated in that I have a tendency to become emotionally attached to females which quickly turns into a romantic type love, and I know when I do this, I’m trying to meet a need for affirmation and love from this other woman instead of going to the source of Love Himself which is idolatry. I do need to accept myself as a person more, though. That’s why I admire your acceptance of yourself.

Whenever I have gotten involved in this way in the past, it has been very unhealthy for me and does not meet my need but only makes the hole inside bigger. God has revealed to me that I must turn to Him to fill this hole. This can also happen when heterosexuals do the same thing and get overattached to someone of the opposite sex. But the Lord has made it clear, he does not want me acting out this way with another woman and that it is very unhealthy in the long run.

 

[thewalrus]

Overpopulation is a myth. The whole world could fit into houses side by side in the state of Texas. With our technology today we could feed the poor in the whole world over and over again and again! There is zero population growth in parts of western Europe. They are calling for women to have babies now because they need more people to care for the aging population. Japan has 90% deaths compared to practically no births now. China is allowing only one male child per couple. Sex is for procreation and the unitive self giving of the husband and wife. This is a beautiful representation of Christ’s self-giving love to His Church. It is holy.

The issue of overpopulation is not quite so simple. It has nothing to do with mere numbers but rather distribution of resources. Regardless, we have no pressing need for everyone to have a bunch of babies.

 

[buffalo]

The issue of overpopulation is not quite so simple. It has nothing to do with mere numbers but rather distribution of resources. Regardless, we have no pressing need for everyone to have a bunch of babies.

Do you know the facts of Europe? And yes a replacement rate is necessary. And no one has the right to tell me how many children I can have.

 

[pathia]

Do you know the facts of Europe? And yes a replacement rate is necessary. And no one has the right to tell me how many children I can have.

Hypothetical: What if every child you have is a burden because you cannot support that child, society and the government have to support the child. Therefore, what right do you have to constantly increase the burden on those that are not yourself, just because you want tons of kids?

 

[thewalrus]

American College of Pediatricians is a small orginization formed in 2002. This groups “studies” come from Paul Cameron who has the following record;

On December 2, 1983, the **American Psychological Association **sent Paul Cameron a letter informing him that he had been dropped from membership. Early in 1984, all members of the American Psychological Association received official written notice that “Paul Cameron (Nebraska) was dropped from membership for a violation of the Preamble to the Ethical Principles of Psychologists” by the APA Board of Directors.5 Cameron has posted an elaborate argument about his expulsion from APA on his website, claiming that he resigned from APA before he was dropped from membership. Like most organizations, however, APA does not allow a member to resign when they are being investigated. And even if Cameron’s claims were accepted as true, it would be remarkable that the largest professional organization of psychologists in the United States (and other professional associations, as noted below) went to such lengths to disassociate itself from one individual.

At its membership meeting on October 19, 1984, the Nebraska Psychological Association adopted a resolution stating that it "formally disassociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality."

In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that “Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism” and noted that **"Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his *distorted interpretation ***of this research."7 The resolution formally charged an ASA committee with the task of “critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron.”
At its August, 1986 meeting, the ASA officially accepted the committee’s report and passed the following resolution:

The **American Sociological Association **officially and publicly states that **Paul Cameron is not a sociologist, and condemns his consistent misrepresentation of sociological research. **Information on this action and a copy of the report by the Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, “The Paul Cameron Case,” is to be published in Footnotes, and be sent to the officers of all regional and state sociological associations and to the Canadian Sociological Association with a request that they alert their members to Cameron’s frequent lecture and media appearances."

In August, 1996, the **Canadian Psychological Association **adopted the following policy statement:
The Canadian Psychological Association takes the position that **Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism and thus, it formally disassociates itself from the representation and interpretations of scientific literature in his writings and public statements on sexuality. **

Cameron’s credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the **U.S. District Court of Dallas **referred to “Cameron’s sworn statement that ‘homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,’” and concluded that “Dr. Paul Cameron…has himself made misrepresentations to this Court” and that "There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron"

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS … is the American Medical Association considered the authority in the area of pediatrics. The above link states its position.

Ahh, court14, thank you!!!

 

[goofyjim]

Do you know the facts of Europe? And yes a replacement rate is necessary. And no one has the right to tell me how many children I can have.

I agree. But OTOH noone has the right to tell me how many children I have to have, as though a single person is therefore committing some crime against God.

 

[thewalrus]

You know a lot pediphiles do you, intersting. I not making the statement that all homosexuals are pediphiles or vice versa, but both of them may have a problem with setting proper and moral bounderies within thier lives. Where do we draw the line when the line keeps moving?.. or the fence has been totally knocked:shrug: down?

Read the John Jay study.

Oh my, just when I think Bennie couldn’t go one step further, he comes through! Hey Bennie, want me to start a thread on how homosexuals like to eat children?