Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

[buffalo]

And they got a great start with the Crusades.

Gosh - your knowledge of history is poor.

 

[Numinous]

Hypothetical: What if every child you have is a burden because you cannot support that child, society and the government have to support the child. Therefore, what right do you have to constantly increase the burden on those that are not yourself, just because you want tons of kids?

The fundamental fallacy with this reasoning is the assumption that human life is less important than money.

 

[buffalo]

Only within marriage. There is no fudnamental teaching that says one has to get married.

One of God’s first commands was marriage between one man and one woman.

Within that there are 4 vocations: Married, single, religious and clergy.

 

[Numinous]

One of God’s first commands was marriage between one man and one woman.

Within that there are 4 vocations: Married, single, religious and clergy.

A clear-thinking, educated poster! wow…

 

[buffalo]

No, jean8, no break will be given to you for being closedminded and judgmental.

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction.

A bit on tolerance and love.

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN****Christian love bears evil, but it does not tolerate it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/authos/Sheen8.JPG  *Christian love bears evil, but  it does not tolerate it. *

It does penance for the sins of others, but it is not broadminded about sin.
*The cry for tolerance never induces it to quench its hatred of the evil philosophies that have entered into contest with the Truth. *
It forgives the sinner, and it hates the sin; it is unmerciful to the error in his mind.
*The sinner it will always take back into the bosom of the Mystical Body;
but his lie will never be taken into the treasury of His Wisdom. *
*Real love involves real hatred:
whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the buyers and sellers from the temples
has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth. *
*Charity, then, is not a mild philosophy of “live and let live”;
it is not a species of sloppy sentiment. *
Charity is the infusion of the Spirit of God,
which makes us love the beautiful and hate the morally ugly.

 

[buffalo]

and from our very highly esteemed Bishop Sheen a bot on broadmindedness:

THE CURSE OF BROADMINDEDNESS

The Catholic Church intolerant." That simple thought, like a yellow-fever sign, is supposed to be the one solid reason which should frighten away any one who might be contemplating knocking at the portals of the Church for entrance, or for a crumb of the Bread of Life. When proof for this statement is asked, it is retorted that the Church is intolerant because of its self-complacency and smug satisfaction as the unique interpreter of the thoughts of Christ. Its narrow-mindedness is supposed to be revealed in its unwillingness to cooperate effectively with other Christian bodies that are working for the union of churches. Within the last ten years, two great world conferences on religion have been held, in which every great religion except the Catholic participated. The Catholic Church was invited to attend and discuss the two important subjects of doctrine and ministry, but she refused the invitation.

That is not all. Even in our own country she has refused to lend a helping hand in the federating of those churches which decided it was better to throw dogmatic differences into the background, in order to serve better the religious needs of America. The other churches would give her a royal welcome, but she will not come. She will not cooperate! She will not conform! And she will not conform because she is too narrow-minded and intolerant! Christ would not have acted that way!

more…

 

[Numinous]

@ buffalo

Whoa…thanks for that! Very well put. Very wise. Thanks.

 

[fix]

Man, that doesn’t even make sense. Are you saying that homosexuals just don’t exist? Is there no distinction between alcoholics and nonalcoholics? Amputees and nonamputees? Did you choose to be heterosexual? If not, why are you implying that homosexuals chose to be what they are? I mean, if your cool with double standards, I’ll leave you alone but for clarity’s sake I think a few of us might benefit.

People do not choose to have a cold. Does that mean having a cold is normal and should be celebrated?

 

[pathia]

The charity level of this thread is disturbingly low. It just confirms that my choice of leaving everything that had to do with the Church was one of the best moves in my life.

 

[Numinous]

Please read post #738 again. No one hates you.

 

[garycasella]

Do you know the facts of Europe? And yes a replacement rate is necessary. And no one has the right to tell me how many children I can have.

Buffalo…I would agree with you that you should have as many children as you like, as long as you can afford it, but as soon as your loins start to suck the money out of my pocket, then we have a problem…and recent news of a 30 yo woman having her 14th child, on purpose, done in vitro, is so revolting to me by all parties involved. The woman, who feels so entitled that she can have a basket full of eggs harvested then fertilized and then, between her and the doctor, had ALL of them implanted !! The doctor is at fault for implanting so many fertilized eggs and the woman is out of her mind, thinking like the above author, that she can have as many kids as she wants, for whatever reason she has to have a “brood” of kids. Now we hear that she is marketing her yet, out of the hospital, still on nose inhaler, kids for us all to see on Oprah and then, if we are lucky, on a reality show she is offering the networks. I mean, how psychopatic is that? You sit here and fight, back and forth, about how gay people of the world are sinners and inhabited by satan, yet, oddly, it has, and you can dispute it and show me Church sponsored studies that deny it, but the AMA and the APA both state that being gay is 99% genetic, chromosonal. The postings here that are 30 years old, are very outdated given how far our technology has come. o back 50 years, where, in some places, people of color were not considered, people. 60 years ago when Jews, in certain societies were not considered, human. Now it is gay people! Why not look into the Church that we all belong to, I think, and look at the problems we have to deal with here, in our ranks as Catholics? The Pius X group, who denies the Shoah, and of course, Opus Dei…which I need not talk about. The issue of having a Pope who tends to say too much and is ignoring big, big problems that are tarnishing all Roman Catholics.
Let us all look within ourselves and correct the problems and (name removed by moderator)erfections that we all have before we begin to start on others people’s problems or lifestyles. None of us is near perfect and He who was, I have a feeling, is looking at us with sadness.

 

[Corki]

**No one is imposing anything on you. **You oppose marriage for same-sex couples - that’s imposing on others. You can disagree with it all you want but at least allow them their rights. They’re just asking for the same civil rights as you get. I’m pretty confident they really don’t care what you think morally about them.

That is incorrect. Even if you discount the slippery slope problem (or frog in boiling water, whichever metaphore you prefer), once legal it IS imposed on the rest of us.

For example, if you own a business, you will be required to provide benefits to same-sex spouses, to include them in all family activities, to acknowledge “weddings” as workplace celebrations as you do normal weddings.

If you have kids in school, you will have them exposed to same-sex marriage at much too young of an age for most kids to understand and process.

If you fill out any government forms you will be forced to be listed as spouse #1 and spouse #2 instead of husband and wife.

For some of you, these are good not bad results. But to say that no one is imposing anything on the rest of us in disingenuous at best and deliberately misleading.

 

[buffalo]

Buffalo…I would agree with you that you should have as many children as you like, as long as you can afford it, but as soon as your loins start to suck the money out of my pocket, then we have a problem…and recent news of a 30 yo woman having her 14th child, on purpose, done in vitro, is so revolting to me by all parties involved. The woman, who feels so entitled that she can have a basket full of eggs harvested then fertilized and then, between her and the doctor, had ALL of them implanted !! The doctor is at fault for implanting so many fertilized eggs and the woman is out of her mind, thinking like the above author, that she can have as many kids as she wants, for whatever reason she has to have a “brood” of kids. Now we hear that she is marketing her yet, out of the hospital, still on nose inhaler, kids for us all to see on Oprah and then, if we are lucky, on a reality show she is offering the networks. I mean, how psychopatic is that? You sit here and fight, back and forth, about how gay people of the world are sinners and inhabited by satan, yet, oddly, it has, and you can dispute it and show me Church sponsored studies that deny it, but the AMA and the APA both state that being gay is 99% genetic, chromosonal. The postings here that are 30 years old, are very outdated given how far our technology has come. o back 50 years, where, in some places, people of color were not considered, people. 60 years ago when Jews, in certain societies were not considered, human. Now it is gay people! Why not look into the Church that we all belong to, I think, and look at the problems we have to deal with here, in our ranks as Catholics? The Pius X group, who denies the Shoah, and of course, Opus Dei…which I need not talk about. The issue of having a Pope who tends to say too much and is ignoring big, big problems that are tarnishing all Roman Catholics.
Let us all look within ourselves and correct the problems and (name removed by moderator)erfections that we all have before we begin to start on others people’s problems or lifestyles. None of us is near perfect and He who was, I have a feeling, is looking at us with sadness.

What document claims gays are not human?

God wants us to search for and know the truth. Gay advocates trying to make this behavior normal in God’s eyes will fail. The behavior is intrinsically evil.

The Pope is trying to protect the family. The family structure is paramount to human living.

As for my loins sucking money out of your pocket I will counter with risky behaviors with high medical and social costs suck money out of my pocket.

 

[pathia]

That is incorrect. Even if you discount the slippery slope problem (or frog in boiling water, whichever metaphore you prefer), once legal it IS imposed on the rest of us.

For example, if you own a business, you will be required to provide benefits to same-sex spouses, to include them in all family activities, to acknowledge “weddings” as workplace celebrations as you do normal weddings.

If you have kids in school, you will have them exposed to same-sex marriage at much too young of an age for most kids to understand and process.

If you fill out any government forms you will be forced to be listed as spouse #1 and spouse #2 instead of husband and wife.

For some of you, these are good not bad results. But to say that no one is imposing anything on the rest of us in disingenuous at best and deliberately misleading.

It’s always about the kids. You know what I thought when I was a kid? That people loved other people. I didn’t even really understand that there were boys and girls. You know what made me ‘know’ that homosexuality was bad? My parents and society. I didn’t have any issues understanding anything I saw, people like people and some people love another person enough to be with them forever. Gender didn’t matter, at all. The only reason I thought anything was ‘icky’ was because of the influence of outsiders.

I have a little niece, she’s 4, going on 5 now. She is completely unconfused about my living as an opposite gender. She calls me “Auntle” it’s incredibly cute. She’s not confused at all, she’s less confused than ANYONE else. She lives in a world of fantasy and magic, where anything can happen, because that’s what kids believe at that age. If I wanted to be something else, I can just do it, she doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with it, it doesn’t confuse her, it’s just like what she sees in her stories.

 

[pathia]

What document claims gays are not human?

God wants us to search for and know the truth. Gay advocates trying to make this behavior normal in God’s eyes will fail. The behavior is intrinsically evil.

The Pope is trying to protect the family. The family structure is paramount to human living.

As for my loins sucking money out of your pocket I will counter with risky behaviors with high medical and social costs suck money out of my pocket.

SOME CONSIDERATIONS CONCERNING THE RESPONSE TO LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS ON THE NON-DISCRIMINATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.

Article 11

There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.

1. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. No. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behavior but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.

 

[fix]

SOME CONSIDERATIONS CONCERNING THE RESPONSE TO LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS ON THE NON-DISCRIMINATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.

Article 11

There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.

1. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. No. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behavior but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.

What is wrong with any of that?

 

[buffalo]

SOME CONSIDERATIONS CONCERNING THE RESPONSE TO LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS ON THE NON-DISCRIMINATION OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS
The Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.

Article 11

There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take sexual orientation into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.

1. Homosexual persons, as human persons, have the same rights as all persons including the right of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity (cf. No. 10). Among other rights, all persons have the right to work, to housing, etc. Nevertheless, these rights are not absolute. They can be legitimately limited for objectively disordered external conduct. This is sometimes not only licit but obligatory. This would obtain moreover not only in the case of culpable behavior but even in the case of actions of the physically or mentally ill. Thus it is accepted that the state may restrict the exercise of rights, for example, in the case of contagious or mentally ill persons, in order to protect the common good.

I do not see that they are not human. What I see is a correct view. We routinely restrict the rights of men who abuse their wife or kids. We restrict the rights of many people according to their capacity. This protects civilization, the innocent and families aka the common good.

 

[pathia]

What is wrong with any of that?

It has a whole paragraph explaining how gay people are mentally ill, then says we can restrict and imprison people who are mentally ill.

Gay gulags are apparently A-OK.

I was locked up for my gender nonconformity as a child, more than a few times. You know what actually made me mentally ill? Locking me up for it! I came out more broken than ever before.

 

[buffalo]

It has a whole paragraph explaining how gay people are mentally ill, then says we can restrict and imprison people who are mentally ill.

Gay gulags are apparently A-OK.

So - see my previous post. I do not see that the Church is stating that gays are mentally ill. (It teaches SSA is objectively disordered and the act is intrinsically evil)

This is not a discriminatory teaching or document at all.

The Church teaches this about everyone, not just gays.

 

[buffalo]

It has a whole paragraph explaining how gay people are mentally ill, then says we can restrict and imprison people who are mentally ill.

Gay gulags are apparently A-OK.

I was locked up for my gender nonconformity as a child, more than a few times. You know what actually made me mentally ill? Locking me up for it! I came out more broken than ever before.

Who locked you up?