Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

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Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this? 🤷:confused:
 
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this? 🤷:confused:
Ask him if this applies to pedophiles as well…:confused:
 
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this? 🤷:confused:
let them be romantic i don’t care. when they have sex they condemn themselves to hell, when they get married they offend me and my religion. case closed. moving on.
 
Ask him if this applies to pedophiles as well…:confused:
That would be a good thing to ask him I suppose but it would probably offend him because it would seem as though I was comparing homosexuals to pedophiles.
 
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this? 🤷:confused:
First, people are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene. If we go down that road then thieves and murderers will be claiming they are born like that.
Second, marriage is between man and woman only. God made Adam and Eve. He did not make Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve.

In case you don’t know the Church teaching on homosexuality, here it is:

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” **They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. **They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
let them be romantic i don’t care. when they have sex they condemn themselves to hell, when they get married they offend me and my religion. case closed. moving on.
Ok, just playing the devil’s advocate here. Just because something is offensive is not a reason to ban it. Some people think interracial marriage is offensive but that is not a reason to ban it, is it?
 
Holly, their argument is that they were “born that way”. That denies the Fall - we believe that original sin has corrupted the world, and we are not as God intended.

People are born alcoholics, altruists, murderers, saints, sinners. There are very altruistic people and very selfish people. We are all “born that way”. It is not a good argument to use.
 
First, people are NOT born homosexual. There is no such thing as a gay gene. If we go down that road then thieves and murderers will be claiming they are born like that.
Second, marriage is between man and woman only. God made Adam and Eve. He did not make Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve.

In case you don’t know the Church teaching on homosexuality, here it is:

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that **“homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” **They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. **They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Ok, so homosexuals may not be born that way but they certainly cannot help it that they become homosexual, can they?
 
Holly, their argument is that they were “born that way”. That denies the Fall - we believe that original sin has corrupted the world, and we are not as God intended.

People are born alcoholics, altruists, murderers, saints, sinners. There are very altruistic people and very selfish people. We are all “born that way”. It is not a good argument to use.
Ok, thanks for the help. I will remember this as it is a very good point. 👍
 
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this? 🤷:confused:
I would simply point out that Marriage is a religious sacrament and has been recognized by Christians and Jewish people alike as between a Man and a Woman.
Where there arugment fails is in wanting religious institutions to redefine the definition of Marriage… which has been held to have been between a man and a woman… if they want legal protections let them seek legal recourse, however most states have laws on the books already which provide equal rights to domestic partners, and if the state does not provide them with equal protection then let them seek remedy though the legal system.
However, they ought not to be able to redefine the very definition or institution of a sacrament. This in no way tells them that their lifestyle is not acceptable… (Thats another issue entirely) it simply points out that there are legal remedies that can be sought without seeking to redefine Christian doctrine or terminology.

[Not sure if the above helps in your wanting to be able to answer them… Of course a priest who works with apologetics might give you a clearer answer for them]
 
I would simply point out that Marriage is a religious sacrament and has been recognized by Christians and Jewish people alike as between a Man and a Woman.

Most states have laws which provide equal rights to domestic partners.

Where there arugment fails is in wanting religious institutions to redefine the definition of Marriage… which has been held to have been between a man and a woman.

If the state does not provide them with equal protection then let them seek remedy though the legal system. However they ought not to be able to redefine the very definition or institution of a sacrament.

[Not sure if the above helps in your wanting to be able to answer them… Of course a priest who works with apologetics might give you a clearer answer for them]
Thank you. This does help. 👍
 
Ok, just playing the devil’s advocate here. Just because something is offensive is not a reason to ban it. Some people think interracial marriage is offensive but that is not a reason to ban it, is it?
is interracial marriage offensive to god? no. is homosexual marriage? yes. case closed.
 
Ok but what about the people who would claim that homosexual marriage is not offensive to God?
Then they are wrong. To question it in that manner is to question christ and the church. no saying you are but…come on i think we both know the truth here.
 
Then they are wrong. To question it in that manner is to question christ and the church. no saying you are but…come on i think we both know the truth here.
Yes, we do both know the truth here. However, my best friend who believes otherwise does not. That is why I am asking questions in this way. I am asking them as if I were him. That way I can get answers as to how to refute his erroneous beliefs.
 
There is not one single scientific proof that gay people are ‘born that way’. However, it is a widespread assumption constantly proclaimed by the media as the ‘truth’. I did try to find and read some info about this, and there has been some research.
I read one research that was trying to prove that gay people have a different brain. However, they used both healthy and sick gay men (who died from natural causes or from AIDS), and they could not prove if the changes in the brain were due to being gay or were caused by AIDS.
There have been other attempts, e.g. one research proved that people who tend to behave like members of the opposite sex as children (e.g., girls who behave like boys, or boys who behave like girls), are more prone to becoming gay as adults. However, nobody tried to find the reasons, WHY did they behave like this when they were children - family problems, how they were raised, if they suffered any physical, psychological or sexual trauma, etc.
Personally for me, ‘researches’ like these are tainted, as they are deliberately trying to find something that has been there all the time, and NEVER try to see if there has been something acquired during one’s life experiences. There is a lot of research being done in this area, the modern idea is to find some ‘scientific’ reason to hide behind, and NOBODY has been able to prove that gay people are ‘born that way’.
I personally know three people who are gay, and I have some personal experience with all three of them, growing together with two of them. In all three cases, those were the younger of two children in atheist families, where having more that two children was considered wrong. So, instead of having a lot of children, the mothers decided to do and give everything to their boys, knowing they would be their last kids. All three of them were spoiled rotten - ALWAYS given everything they always wanted, never denied a thing, nobody taught them to think about others. They all learned that they can do anything they want, and there would be NO consequences. E.g., in one case, the boy would mistreat others, call them ‘mule’, etc., and then his mother would always protect him, telling the people complaining that they are wrong, arguing with them, even shouting that her ‘perfect little son’ would never do something like that, etc.
I know my experience is VERY limited, however, it does show that not raising your child right does have consequences. As far as I know, however, nobody is interested in making a research in that area, to see if there is a connection…
 
Yes, we do both know the truth here. However, my best friend who believes otherwise does not. That is why I am asking questions in this way. I am asking them as if I were him. That way I can get answers as to how to refute his erroneous beliefs.
find out if he has a christian belief system. if he does, ask him about the verse in corinthians were homosexuality is condemned.
 
There is not one single scientific proof that gay people are ‘born that way’. However, it is a widespread assumption constantly proclaimed by the media as the ‘truth’. I did try to find and read some info about this, and there has been some research.
I read one research that was trying to prove that gay people have a different brain. However, they used both healthy and sick gay men (who died from natural causes or from AIDS), and they could not prove if the changes in the brain were due to being gay or were caused by AIDS.
There have been other attempts, e.g. one research proved that people who tend to behave like members of the opposite sex as children (e.g., girls who behave like boys, or boys who behave like girls), are more prone to becoming gay as adults. However, nobody tried to find the reasons, WHY did they behave like this when they were children - family problems, how they were raised, if they suffered any physical, psychological or sexual trauma, etc.
Personally for me, ‘researches’ like these are tainted, as they are deliberately trying to find something that has been there all the time, and NEVER try to see if there has been something acquired during one’s life experiences. There is a lot of research being done in this area, the modern idea is to find some ‘scientific’ reason to hide behind, and NOBODY has been able to prove that gay people are ‘born that way’.
I personally know three people who are gay, and I have some personal experience with all three of them, growing together with two of them. In all three cases, those were the younger of two children in atheist families, where having more that two children was considered wrong. So, instead of having a lot of children, the mothers decided to do and give everything to their boys, knowing they would be their last kids. All three of them were spoiled rotten - ALWAYS given everything they always wanted, never denied a thing, nobody taught them to think about others. They all learned that they can do anything they want, and there would be NO consequences. E.g., in one case, the boy would mistreat others, call them ‘mule’, etc., and then his mother would always protect him, telling the people complaining that they are wrong, arguing with them, even shouting that her ‘perfect little son’ would never do something like that, etc.
I know my experience is VERY limited, however, it does show that not raising your child right does have consequences. As far as I know, however, nobody is interested in making a research in that area, to see if there is a connection…
Hmmm, thank you for this information. It is quite helpful. 👍
 
find out if he has a christian belief system. if he does, ask him about the verse in corinthians were homosexuality is condemned.
My friend is an Agnostic Theist. I do believe he believes the Christian belief system more than he does the other belief systems that are out there but he has a hard time believing and understanding the Bible.
 
My friend is an Agnostic Theist. I do believe he believes the Christian belief system more than he does the other belief systems that are out there but he has a hard time believing and understanding the Bible.
well…for your friend my advice would not work. in this case, i would just go with the above advice.:yup:
 
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