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Holly3278
Guest
Yes, that is what I am going to do. But thanks anyway for trying to help.
Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?
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sanctamaria17
Guest
My answer:
We’re all called to be chaste. That means no sex until marriage and afterward, a proper order to sexuality. God calls us ALL to live like that.
HOWEVER, I don’t believe that a secular federal government has any business telling CONSENTING ADULTS what they can and cannot do in the bedroom. That goes for premarital sex, homosexual marriage, etc. That’s not part of the government’s job. That’s the Church’s job. The government was designed to protect our freedom and make sure we don’t kill each other (physically, not spiritually, as it’s supposed to be outside of the spiritual realm).
As for the born that way, I don’t know if it’s naturally hardwired or what, but from my perspective, I did not choose my sexuality. I choose how I act on it (staying chaste), but I didn’t choose it.
And no, people are not natural born murderers, they choose to murder. They may have violent tendencies but they choose to act negatively on them. Also, many in the gay community will agree that pedophilia and bestiality are evil abuse to innocent children and animals and stick with CONSENTING ADULTS who just don’t consider gender an important quality when falling in love (while I know God made us otherwise, many are NOT Catholic or Christian, so it’s a bit different). I don’t condone their lifestyle, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that they’re going to fight for legal pedophilia as well.
I can imagine your gay friend would be highly offended by a possible homosexuality/pedophilia comparison. As a chaste queer, I’d take offense to that! I’m no more likely to abuse children than someone who is straight! That’s sick and wrong! Just because our sexualities are a bit out of the realm (and I don’t intend to act on my impulses) doesn’t mean we’re out to get innocent little kids! I’m sorry, but OUCH!
Seriously, outside of life issues (which should be protected), the more we try to legislate Christianity, the more we prostitute our religion and have our intentions blow up in our faces because our religion was never meant to be a political one.
We’re all called to be chaste. That means no sex until marriage and afterward, a proper order to sexuality. God calls us ALL to live like that.
HOWEVER, I don’t believe that a secular federal government has any business telling CONSENTING ADULTS what they can and cannot do in the bedroom. That goes for premarital sex, homosexual marriage, etc. That’s not part of the government’s job. That’s the Church’s job. The government was designed to protect our freedom and make sure we don’t kill each other (physically, not spiritually, as it’s supposed to be outside of the spiritual realm).
As for the born that way, I don’t know if it’s naturally hardwired or what, but from my perspective, I did not choose my sexuality. I choose how I act on it (staying chaste), but I didn’t choose it.
And no, people are not natural born murderers, they choose to murder. They may have violent tendencies but they choose to act negatively on them. Also, many in the gay community will agree that pedophilia and bestiality are evil abuse to innocent children and animals and stick with CONSENTING ADULTS who just don’t consider gender an important quality when falling in love (while I know God made us otherwise, many are NOT Catholic or Christian, so it’s a bit different). I don’t condone their lifestyle, but I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that they’re going to fight for legal pedophilia as well.
I can imagine your gay friend would be highly offended by a possible homosexuality/pedophilia comparison. As a chaste queer, I’d take offense to that! I’m no more likely to abuse children than someone who is straight! That’s sick and wrong! Just because our sexualities are a bit out of the realm (and I don’t intend to act on my impulses) doesn’t mean we’re out to get innocent little kids! I’m sorry, but OUCH!
Seriously, outside of life issues (which should be protected), the more we try to legislate Christianity, the more we prostitute our religion and have our intentions blow up in our faces because our religion was never meant to be a political one.
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Holly3278
Guest
Actually, my friend is not gay. He believes that gay marriage is OK because he is a liberal and because he has gay friends whom he cares for deeply.
But anyway, thank you for this post which I fully agree with.
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AndyF
Guest
In order to accept your statement, you would first need to accept that God likes to play tricks on people, and he doesn’t take seriously his own definitions of the Sacrament of Marriage.
a/ God stated it plainly that HS is an abomination.
This is a heads up. If it does not fully drive home that the behavior is repugnant to God, we are at least lead further to view this conduct has suspicious. If has a child you saw that your father avoided venturing near cliffs you may be too young to know why, but you has a wise child would know a danger of some form exists.
b/ God stated that a marriage between male and female is the
sanctioned norm. We also know that the devil’s intent is to offer alternatives to God’s wishes. Wisdom then concludes from this Divine knowledge that there is something wrong with the HS ritual. You will note I don’t say marriage, because it can never be one, and is really a cult ritual that the devil presides over.
HS is a class of sin. It expresses itself strongly in deception and it’s main focal point is to convince the afflicted that he is unchangeable. It is accompanied by altered senses and stimulus that suggest that his physiology isn’t what he is born with. It is a very devious and subtle sin, one of the toughest temptations that man must endure.
It has it’s start so that it does not startle the victim. It exploits the degree of deficiency in lack of grace that this particular individual possess. It entices the experimental inclination and intrigue he is susceptible to, and when he consents, uses this
new platform has a staging ground for further temptation to experimentation.
While this progresses in a downward spiral, his ability to trust blindly must not be compromised, has he will require at the final stage of giving in entirely a small window of hope. Through it he will receive from his brethren the suggestions that will start the remedial processes, mainly a plea from the Blessed Mother through devotion, help from St. Michael, and observances of Church obligations, and most importantly frequent confession.
AndyF
a/ God stated it plainly that HS is an abomination.
This is a heads up. If it does not fully drive home that the behavior is repugnant to God, we are at least lead further to view this conduct has suspicious. If has a child you saw that your father avoided venturing near cliffs you may be too young to know why, but you has a wise child would know a danger of some form exists.
b/ God stated that a marriage between male and female is the
sanctioned norm. We also know that the devil’s intent is to offer alternatives to God’s wishes. Wisdom then concludes from this Divine knowledge that there is something wrong with the HS ritual. You will note I don’t say marriage, because it can never be one, and is really a cult ritual that the devil presides over.
HS is a class of sin. It expresses itself strongly in deception and it’s main focal point is to convince the afflicted that he is unchangeable. It is accompanied by altered senses and stimulus that suggest that his physiology isn’t what he is born with. It is a very devious and subtle sin, one of the toughest temptations that man must endure.
It has it’s start so that it does not startle the victim. It exploits the degree of deficiency in lack of grace that this particular individual possess. It entices the experimental inclination and intrigue he is susceptible to, and when he consents, uses this
new platform has a staging ground for further temptation to experimentation.
While this progresses in a downward spiral, his ability to trust blindly must not be compromised, has he will require at the final stage of giving in entirely a small window of hope. Through it he will receive from his brethren the suggestions that will start the remedial processes, mainly a plea from the Blessed Mother through devotion, help from St. Michael, and observances of Church obligations, and most importantly frequent confession.
AndyF
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Holly3278
Guest
Good points Andy! Thanks!
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Jack_245814
Guest
I absolutely 100% agree! If gays really want to get married though, the government should definitely not call such a union “marriage”. If they want to have “civil unions” or whatever that’s fine in my book from a political perspective, but matrimony is a Sacred Mystery.
I also think - in accordance with the Catholic social teaching of subsidiarity - that such questions should be largely left up to individual cities/counties - not states and DEFINITELY not the Fed. If a small town in the bible-belt is heavily religious and wants to ban sodomy I say that should be considered fine even if you are a liberal on this issue; it’s their town, they should have more of a say as to how it will be run.
I would argue against even civil unions, but if such unions were ultimately made legal in Seattle or whatever it wouldn’t bother me a whole lot. It’s not like the government in such a city is commanding you to have one - though they are making homosexuality more acceptable. If we leave the question of whether or not to legalize gay unions up to the entire nation or state, it’s quite possible that all will be lost. If we allow the choice to be made by smaller more organic units, there’s less of a chance for a widespread acceptance of this sin.
I have bisexual tendencies myself - sometimes feeling more homosexual than hetereosexual and vice versa. I recognize its sinfulness and just keep chaste and try to shun temptations to sexual fantasy - whether straight or gay.
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Holly3278
Guest
I totally agree with you. I think the government needs to get out of the marriage business personally.
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Steve40
Guest
I don’t think they were born with any sexual attraction to anything or anyone since at birth they were sexually inmature. Sexual atractions to trees animals or whatever can be a learned feeling or desire. An attraction does not define the meaning of something. You don’t need to be attracted to someone to have a romantic relationship them or sex with them. Attractions are superficial and secondary. Getting old and decrepid together is a beutiful thing. Homo sexuals just have a head start on everyone else when it comes to the love for the old and decrepid. Looks and attraction don’t mean very much. If they try to make it mean more than it does they will be very disappointed.Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this?
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onmyknees
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Question Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this?
Hi Holly,
Homosexuals may not be responsible for how they became same sex attracted and the Catholic Church teaches that they deserve just treatment just like anybody else. So they do deserve to have equal legal rights but marriage is a religious word. It is a holy sacrament instituted by Christ between a man and a women for the begetting of children and the unity of the spouses. We are called to love everybody but we cannot condone the practice of homosexuality because it is a grave sin and against nature. The homosexual is called to live a chaste life just as a single person is called to live in chastity. Very hard to do but it is possible with God and a consistent prayer life. If they fall there is the sacrament of confession.
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Join Date: April 21, 2005
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Question Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?
Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this?
Hi Holly,
Homosexuals may not be responsible for how they became same sex attracted and the Catholic Church teaches that they deserve just treatment just like anybody else. So they do deserve to have equal legal rights but marriage is a religious word. It is a holy sacrament instituted by Christ between a man and a women for the begetting of children and the unity of the spouses. We are called to love everybody but we cannot condone the practice of homosexuality because it is a grave sin and against nature. The homosexual is called to live a chaste life just as a single person is called to live in chastity. Very hard to do but it is possible with God and a consistent prayer life. If they fall there is the sacrament of confession.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
challenge him to provide scientific proof of that assertion (since there is not a shred of proof, that will be tought). I was born with diabetes does that give me an inherent right to eat the sugary foods I crave no matter what harm they do?
If they somehow prove pedophiles, rapists and psychopaths are “born that way” does that give them the right to act out their crimes?
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Newbie2
Guest
Can’t help that. Perhaps using sociopathic serial killers as an example? If he doesn’t understand that it’s a parallel, not a comparison…not much you can do to educate him.
Very Christ-like attitude.
We should preach the Gospel to everyone, even when they seem to reject it.True, but an ineffective argument for the Holly’s friend.
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GailMac
Guest
As far as i’m concerned the words homosexual and marriage are two words that don’t belong together in the same sentence, unless of course, your some perverted counselor who desires to sentence some children to having to survive a perversion. Dungeons.
Peace,
Gail
Peace,
Gail
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Holly3278
Guest
I agree Gail. However, it was necessary to put those two words in the same sentence in order to have this thread.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
It’s flawed because it has not been proven that they were born that way. Many still accept the original idea that it is a learned behavior or mental disorder that can be treated.Hi everyone. A friend of mine has come up with an argument for homosexual marriage that I can’t seem to defeat. He says that homosexuals should be allowed to marry because of the fact that they were born that way and also because they deserve to have romantic relationships too. He says it would be unjust to deprive them of equal rights just because they are attracted to the same sex. How do I counter this?
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Newbie2
Guest
I’d be careful about using this as an arguement, as it someday may be proven to be an inborn trait. We also have to consider that it’s possible to be a developmental “condition”, which isn’t necessarily a mental disorder or learned behavior.
Either way, learned or inborn, the attraction in itself isn’t justification for allowing gay marriage, just as the attraction of a pedophile isn’t sufficient justification to allow marriage of an adult and a child, nor allowing polygamy; the pedophile certainly has undeniable attraction to the child, the polygamist an attraction to multiple partners.
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Maxply
Guest
Holly, you’ve had a lot of advice, etc., here.
take a look at Jeffrey Satinover’s book, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. This is a good overview.
Chief things in the book you should know are: that the American Psychological Association was brutally steamrolled into redefining homosexuality (from a disorder to a condition) by hostile militant homosexual activists.
And that homosexuality is a complex socio-behavioral disorder.
It is only the Great Trumpet of the news media, in their search for daily sensation, that blew out to the public the notion of homosexuality being a predetermined genetic condition.
take a look at Jeffrey Satinover’s book, Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. This is a good overview.
Chief things in the book you should know are: that the American Psychological Association was brutally steamrolled into redefining homosexuality (from a disorder to a condition) by hostile militant homosexual activists.
And that homosexuality is a complex socio-behavioral disorder.
It is only the Great Trumpet of the news media, in their search for daily sensation, that blew out to the public the notion of homosexuality being a predetermined genetic condition.
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Holly3278
Guest
Ah yeah. I personally believe that either it is a learned behavior or a mental disorder but I do believe it’s possible for it to be an inborn trait.
Again, I can’t compare homosexuals to pedophiles. How do I get around that?
Ok, I’ll see if I can get that book through my library.
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pathia
Guest
It may not be genetic, but that doesn’t mean it is a treatable condition.
I’ve gone through 10years of therapy to ‘cure’ myself and all it did was likely push on my multiple suicide attempts. When I was in graduate school, we had a therapy group that had TWENTY college students that had all gone through the same sort of ‘cure’ sessions that I had. Every single one had multiple suicide attempts, many had physical scars from damaging themselves.
When compared to our other gay peers, our lives were complete shambles. It is true gay youth are on average have more suicidal thoughts than straight, but we were a group that tried to not be, and our rate was even higher still. It didn’t help anything, it just made it worse and worse. At least one student went back into the therapy partway through my time at school, and then he hung himself in his dorm room several months into the sessions with an ex-gay therapist.
I’ve gone through 10years of therapy to ‘cure’ myself and all it did was likely push on my multiple suicide attempts. When I was in graduate school, we had a therapy group that had TWENTY college students that had all gone through the same sort of ‘cure’ sessions that I had. Every single one had multiple suicide attempts, many had physical scars from damaging themselves.
When compared to our other gay peers, our lives were complete shambles. It is true gay youth are on average have more suicidal thoughts than straight, but we were a group that tried to not be, and our rate was even higher still. It didn’t help anything, it just made it worse and worse. At least one student went back into the therapy partway through my time at school, and then he hung himself in his dorm room several months into the sessions with an ex-gay therapist.
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truagape
Guest
When was the last time you described the pedophilic relationship as “romantic”, and not a form of explotation.Ask him if this applies to pedophiles as well…
Seriously are you really this disconnected from the plight of those who yearn for companionship within a life partner?
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buffalo
Guest
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