Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

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pete_29 said:
Carefully read my post. I’m saying that in my case, I would have to decide Which I loved more, God or my relationship.
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I don’t see what there is to decide, quite simply if God didn’t create the possibility of love, then there wouldn’t be love. There’s no way to rank anything ‘above’ that.
 
Are David and Jonathan a good example of two men loving each other without getting involved sexually?
 
pathia said:
I don’t see what there is to decide, quite simply if God didn’t create the possibility of love, then there wouldn’t be love. There’s no way to rank anything ‘above’ that.
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Well, to tell the truth, I’m too dumb to explain it to you. God will have to judge whether your right or wrong, just don’t expect me to give up my Faith to make yourself feel better about it. No insult intended, but thats the way I see it. 🤷
 
pete_29 said:
Well, to tell the truth, I’m too dumb to explain it to you. God will have to judge whether your right or wrong, just don’t expect me to give up my Faith to make yourself feel better about it. No insult intended, but thats the way I see it. 🤷
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What about my life violates your Faith? I’m celibate. Do you insist that I cure myself like so many others? There is nothing about that in Catholic teachings.

It would be nice to know what Faith is, I’ve been betrayed by so many people and I’ve never once felt the presence of God in my entire life, so I have nothing to operate off of except my ‘feelings’.
 
ltravis said:
Let me approach this issue with the reason behind what some may call the church’s “prejudice”:

God is love. That love is so strong its is creative. God loved the universe into existence. Love needs to be shared so God created humanity in his image and injected himself into it (for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son). Love creates life. Now, as God, through the Son, entered humanity - so too did humanity enter into God’s holiness. God and humanity are bound together and the greatest seal of that is the privelege of God sharing his most essential nature with us. He gave us the ability to share in his ability to use love to create life. Man and woman share the deepest, most Godlike love, and it creates life. It is the only eternal thing God has let his creation create on its own.

That is why sexuality and marriage is so sacred and so holy. That is why it is more than just an action, or instinct, or animal nature. That is why God doesn’t want us tampering with it and redefining its purpose. We have been given the privelege and responsibility or carrying part of God’s own nature. Nothing needs more protection than that.

That is the reason behind the Church’s stance on sexuality. We may choose to acknowledge it and be in union with the church, or we may reject it - and the church. But the church can’t deny Truth.
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I really have no problems with your theology here…except for where you assume marriage is between a man and a woman. If you want to base marriage on the biblical model, you have all sorts of problems. When you define Church as Truth as you and others have done, you make the Church infallible. I get that this is a conservative Catholic forum and all, but it’s also 2009.
 
buffalo said:
OK - we will change the truth for your sake. No problem. :banghead:
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No, actually, my point was that you should reconsider what you have considered to be the truth…for your sake. Putting yourself in a position where you cannot question things is a bit like…well, banging your head against the wall…
 
fix said:
Is it fair to call true understanding of morality prejudice and fear?
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If I considered your understanding to be a true understanding, I obviously wouldn’t consider it to be prejudice and fear. But anytime a morality conflicts with the gospel due to a fear of difference, that’s a bad sign.
 
fix said:
You do know the Mosiac law was imperfect and replaced by Jesus?

This is what happens when we have a facile interpretation of Scripture and one without recourse to the true authority of Mother Church.
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I would imagine that court14 really isn’t into supersessionist theology.
 
thewalrus said:
No, actually, my point was that you should reconsider what you have considered to be the truth…for your sake. Putting yourself in a position where you cannot question things is a bit like…well, banging your head against the wall…
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No problem with questioning, but when you get the correct answer do you discard it because you do not like it?
 
thewalrus said:
If I considered your understanding to be a true understanding, I obviously wouldn’t consider it to be prejudice and fear. But anytime a morality conflicts with the gospel due to a fear of difference, that’s a bad sign.
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There is no conflict between Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, or magisterial teaching.
 
thewalrus said:
No, actually, my point was that you should reconsider what you have considered to be the truth…for your sake. Putting yourself in a position where you cannot question things is a bit like…well, banging your head against the wall…
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Question things? Been there done that.

The truth cannot change. It is a fixed beacon lighting the way.
 
pathia said:
What about my life violates your Faith? I’m celibate. Do you insist that I cure myself like so many others? There is nothing about that in Catholic teachings.

It would be nice to know what Faith is, I’ve been betrayed by so many people and I’ve never once felt the presence of God in my entire life, so I have nothing to operate off of except my ‘feelings’.
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You’re determined to make this an argument.🙂 As I’ve said, I’m not smart enough to tell you what to do one way or the other. My Faith tells me homosexuality is wrong. Whether this has anything to do with your relationship is totally your concern, not mine, but if you’re suggesting that I accept homosexuality, I’m afraid I can’t as that would mean I’d have to deny my Faith, as I understand it anyway.
If you don’t mind a suggestion, go to your nearest Catholic church, sit in front of the Tabernacle, clear your mind, and see what God has to say to you. This has helped me in the past.🙂
 
pete_29 said:
Code: 
If you don't mind a suggestion, go to your nearest Catholic church, sit in front of the Tabernacle, clear your mind, and see what God has to say to you. This has helped me in the past.:)
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I’ll detail what I’ve done to try to get an answer from God, I’ve covered it before, but it’s probably hard to dig out in all the threads here.

I’ve prayed for hours on end. That did nothing. I’ve done the rosary, I’ve prayed at church, prayed at home. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things. I starved myself for days, tried the same thing again, nothing. I starved myself for even longer, an entire week, I only had water, then I prayed. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things, I went out and simply wandered out onto the street for a few weeks to live homeless. Nothing. I’ve even done drugs, legal and otherwise to attempt to clear my mind or cloud it, or do anything.

If you have any other suggestions on things I haven’t tried yet, I am willing to try more things and I’m not being sarcastic. I really am willing to try just about anything. Yet I’ve yet to feel anything.

I have a suspicion it could be the psych meds I have to take, however, if I go off those I start to cut myself and work out suicide plots, so that’s not very productive either.
 
pete_29 said:
Maybe someone asked this already, but just why do any of us DESERVE romantic relationships? 🤷
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Yes. See my post #247 and Bob Catholic post #266. Still waiting for a good answer. Have you got one?
 
pathia said:
I’ll detail what I’ve done to try to get an answer from God, I’ve covered it before, but it’s probably hard to dig out in all the threads here.

I’ve prayed for hours on end. That did nothing. I’ve done the rosary, I’ve prayed at church, prayed at home. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things. I starved myself for days, tried the same thing again, nothing. I starved myself for even longer, an entire week, I only had water, then I prayed. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things, I went out and simply wandered out onto the street for a few weeks to live homeless. Nothing. I’ve even done drugs, legal and otherwise to attempt to clear my mind or cloud it, or do anything.

If you have any other suggestions on things I haven’t tried yet, I am willing to try more things and I’m not being sarcastic. I really am willing to try just about anything. Yet I’ve yet to feel anything.

I have a suspicion it could be the psych meds I have to take, however, if I go off those I start to cut myself and work out suicide plots, so that’s not very productive either.
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Don’t pray. Go to the Church, clear your mind, try and become as peaceful as you can, and listen. It may help. 🤷
 
pete_29 said:
Don’t pray. Go to the Church, clear your mind, try and become as peaceful as you can, and listen. It may help. 🤷
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It is impossible for me to be calm in a Church due to my past history with it, most churches in fact actually trigger panic attacks and mental breakdowns. It’s not exactly an environment I can be ‘calm’ in.
 
pathia said:
I’ll detail what I’ve done to try to get an answer from God, I’ve covered it before, but it’s probably hard to dig out in all the threads here.

I’ve prayed for hours on end. That did nothing. I’ve done the rosary, I’ve prayed at church, prayed at home. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things. I starved myself for days, tried the same thing again, nothing. I starved myself for even longer, an entire week, I only had water, then I prayed. Nothing. So I started to do more extreme things, I went out and simply wandered out onto the street for a few weeks to live homeless. Nothing. I’ve even done drugs, legal and otherwise to attempt to clear my mind or cloud it, or do anything.

If you have any other suggestions on things I haven’t tried yet, I am willing to try more things and I’m not being sarcastic. I really am willing to try just about anything. Yet I’ve yet to feel anything.

I have a suspicion it could be the psych meds I have to take, however, if I go off those I start to cut myself and work out suicide plots, so that’s not very productive either.
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Pathia,
I too spent years praying that something would change, but it never did. I did the whole “reparative therapy” bit as well and that was just a waste of time and money. Now I go before Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and I know that I am loved and accepted just as I am. I know that my sexuality has nothing to do with my relationship with God, or if it does, it’s simply about integration. I’m afraid that, for those who do not understand, nothing we can say will make a difference. My sexuality is no longer a struggle for me because I am at peace about it and for that I am so thankful! God bless!
 
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