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johnlal
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If you donāt know a good argument, then maybe you arenāt the right person to do the arguing. You donāt have to argue with everybody.How do I counter this?
Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?
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RyanML
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Iām sorry, but I can not relate. Spiritually, I have matured and have grown in my walk with the Lord. I am in a better place emotionally and pshycologically than I was when I was going through therapy years ago and my relationships with friends and family have certainly grown and definately improved. Years ago, when I spent so much time and energy trying to repress my sexuality, it caused depression. I hadnāt come out to my parents at that time and so my dad would always question why, if my faith was such an important part of my life, why I seemed so miserable. Today, the joy of my faith is evident, I hope, and I am in a much better place! God bless!
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RyanML
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I apologize for misunderstanding your post.
I did not mean to offend or be glib, only to offer encouragement. You are in my prayers and please, pray for me. God bless!
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thewalrus
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Actually, yes truth can change with time and does all the time. In this case, however, there was no change of truth, only a bad misunderstanding of it in the first place. The church finally came around on race and gender (relatively speaking, of course). It is time it did so with sexual orientation as well.
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thewalrus
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I think you have a very poor misunderstanding of anthropology. A person cannot simply decide to desexualize themselves.They only truly become homosexual if they act upon any same sex attraction feelings they may have. This word homosexual is a loaded word. People go through stages in how they feel and are attracted to others as they mature. If these feelings or attractions are acted on in the wrong way then it reinforces feelings which may or may not be appropriate. In the case of Same Sex attractions the Church teaches it is wrong and sinful to act out. Some people with these feelings may have better control then others or they may be stronger, the feelings stronger in one then another. The problem we have in todayās culture is these false ideas that if it feels good then do it. This is the trap many that have same-sex attraction fall in to.
They do not want think there is anything wrong with certain feelings, and of course none of us want to think there is something wrong about our feelings, emotions, character or etc. but each of us have parts of us that want to do the wrong thing, but all of us should strive to be the best we can.
In this argument of Homosexuality the majority of the people which do not want to recognize, IMHO, that there is something wrong with these disordered sexual feelings will, as any that are in denial of any disordered behavioral tendencies, want to beat the Church down and the rest of society with any every excuse that they are right and the Church is wrong. This truly a sign of immaturity, which many think, is the root of homosexual tendencies that is something went wrong in the process of individuals growing from childhood into adulthood. That is not say there are not intelligent, well meaning, and creative - even highly (worldly) successful persons that struggle with same sex attraction, in fact it appears that the more educated one is the more likely they may have problems with same-sex attractions. Go figure, maybe the tree of knowledge is truly evil
Has anyone here ever asked WHY would God create someone to be a homosexual and then ask them to be celibate? You guys seem to be way too much into the sadistic image of the divine.
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thewalrus
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Those of you on here who are homosexual have no cross to bear other than certain individuals and groups of people who are unwilling to accept you for who you are. That is their concern, not Godās.
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Bennie_P
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In reality this has nothing to do with marriage, it is an attempt to justify behavoir which is found repulsive by the majority and an attack against the Christian Church and the other major religions which teach against homosexual behavoir. Those that have SSA issues have the same legal rights as everyone else, but the few who lead this so-called push for equal rights wants to change the idea of what morality is and change the general mores of the community in order for society to accept a behavoir which they reject. If they can succeed in fooling the public in to beliveing they are pushing for equal rights then they have won over the battle of what society should consider moral.
The majority of self-proclaimed gays have no wish to marry, they just want justification for their behavoir. and statsically it is a life style strife with non-stop sexual encounters with muti-parnters, which breeds only illness, alcoholism, drug addiction, and heart break especially among active male homosexuals.
There are a few, mainly among lesbians, that commit to life long commitments, but if you look deeply into those relationships they are probably more plutonic then sexual in nature, and there are legal means outside of marriage for couples such as those to obtain security as it comes to property rights, visitation rights, and etc.
It is all smoke and mirrors to suggest that gays as a whole would commit to what we would think of as a traditional marriage, in which the main purpose is to raise a family in security. We do not need to continue down a road of sexual promiscuity, but should seek as a society to reverse that trend in order to make a safer and secure world for the children which are the furture for society.
If you want to have equality as it comes to tax rights, then you need to fight for the Fair Tax, other then that all other benefits same-sex couples could gain by marriage would be better served in other legal means, more easly reversed then divorce.
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Bennie_P
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Sadism is a homosexual behavoir and God would rather a person to choose life with a future then to choose a life of pain and I afraid my freind if you do your research, you will find homosexuality is all about painā¦
mainly self-inflicted at thatā¦
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thewalrus
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Perhaps if you stepped out of your conspiracy-laden victim mentality, you might realize that you are not the center of the universe. No one is out to attack your faith or destroy the āgeneral moresā of the community. Do you live in 1950 or something? There are no general mores anymore. You live in a democratic society where all should have equal rights. You are flat wrong that homosexuals have equal legal rights. And you are clearly lying when you associate homosexuality with promiscuity or infidelity. Donāt take stereotypes and call them statistics - it makes you look very, very ignorant. If there is any type of ādisorderā that needs to be discussed in this thread, it is homophobia.
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thewalrus
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Bennie, Bennie, Bennie, no. Sadism is not a homosexual behavior. Itās not even just a sexual behavior. Sadism is when a person draws pleasure from inflicting pain on another person. I was speaking of your image of God being sadistic. Please, please go get educated in this stuff. You truly have no idea what you are talking about.Sadism is a homosexual behavoir and God would rather a person to choose life with a future then to choose a life of pain and I afraid my freind if you do your research, you will find homosexuality is all about painā¦
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Bennie_P
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Those stereo-types come from statistics, and believe it or not there are mores within our society, rejection of them is just rebellion, and not all rebellions result in the change the rebel is looking forā¦ promiscuity and infidelity is the norm among homosexual males, that is why when the aids epdepmic was first noted by the health community it appeared and spread first in the gay community and was known as the gay cancer, then spread through the rest of society which also rejected the mores of society (drug addicts, cheating husbands, prostitutes) before it started killing the unexpected innocents (faithful wives, children) alsoā¦
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garycasella
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Well, I did not have to read far before a very general, offensive statement was made, and the quote above just pushed me a bit too much. I hope the author of the pedophile coment realizes that there are homosexuals who are on this website, respectfully, and who are Roman Catholic. I being one of them. Some stats for the authorā¦most molestors in this world are male on female. A minority are homosexual, but given the Evangelical climate in this nation, and the anti Catholic sentiment due to its turning a blind eye to the many priests who molested some youths, male on male get more attention. I would suggest going on to your local 'Sex Offender" website and do a tally, yourself. A bigger question, for me is, why this woman, the original author, feel that she MUST counter attack her friendās argument since homosexuality has now been proven to be about 99.9% genetic and not learned, and there is nothing one can do, naturally or chemically to change it, truthfully? Why does a counter comment have to be applied in this case? Can it simply not be so? Can her friend simply be correctā¦end of story? Why does she feel that she must counter? Who has taught her this? It is not that she said that she wanted to look into it before agreement or disagreement but that she was searching for a counter attack and could not come up with a legitimate one, so could her fellow RCās, give her a reason. Her friend, though, is correct. If it is natural, and we were made this way, should we not be allowed to announce this without fear of violent or vicious attack? There are many things in the Bible that have not aged well, such as the Levitical Law (where the āman on manā law comes from) that states that one can sell or barter their female children. There is also one that says that one can be killed if Sabbath is broken, and not the sabbath that you and I think of, but the Sabbath that Orthodox Jews abide to which involves no work whatsoever, no cooking, no computers, no turning on and off of lights, no driving. From Friday, sunset to Saturday, sunset, nothing but contemplation and meditation and reading is really allowed and the law says if you do not follow this, you die. Why are these not taken into issue like the gay thing? Could it be because the others, daughter selling and driving on Saturday (how did the Shabbat get to be on a Sunday for us?) is inconvenient, but the putting down of a minority of the population, is not? Could it be because people are threatened by gay people, and much more so men than woman? I recently saw a facinating documentary on Sundance about Homosexuality (last night, in fact) where almost all interviewed were the orthodox of their religions; RC, Muslim, Jewish, Evangelical Christians (still do not understand what that is, I mean, where is the Anglican or Baptist, or Catholic or Lutheran label?) etc. and almost all represented stated that their problem with homosexuality, in general, had to do with gay men but not so gay women. All but the Orthodox, Hasidim, Jews stated this. They stated that they could picture 2 woman together, making it more acceptable to them but could not picture 2 men, which made it, therefore, abhorrant to them. I could go on, but wonāt as I am always too longwinded. I will end by saying that I do not belive that Jesus, God, the Madonna, are upset by 2 men or women who love each other, genuinely. I believe that love, wherever it turns up, should be cherished. I do not have an issue with how the word āmarriageā is used or if it is used, in contrast to a āunionā or ācommittmentā because that is all marriage is, anyway, a union of 2 people who want to declare their love for each other and commit to staying together. Something to be rejoiced, not lamented or spat upon.Ask him if this applies to pedophiles as wellā¦
I pray that the original author not be directed in why she should be against something when she has sought her mind and heart and cannnot find anything wrong with what her friend states. That would be a true sin and completely against what Jesus asks of us. Please forgive poor typing but I presently have en eye infection and everything is a bit blurry. Sorry.
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pathia
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Iāve been together with my partner for 9 years. Our roommates about 20ish. Weāre both technically āhomosexual maleā couples (If you ignore my biological oddities for the example anyway) and our gaming couple down the street have been together for FIFTY years. Iāve never seen or heard any evidence that theyāve been anything but faithful to each other, they are also a male pairing.
You seem to have a skewed vision of homosexuals as envisioned by 1950ās propoganda or something. Are there gays that act the way you speak of? Of course, but then there are heterosexuals that do as well. There is a problem with impulse control in our society and those men that conduct that activity often displayed the drug/alcohol etc long before they were gay. I think thereās something wrong with their brains, being gay is just an aspect of their personality, not the cause of their behavior.
They get addicted to everything, not just sex. I ran into so many of these men in the ex-gay programs. They cannot be not-addicted. The only way they could stop doing sex/drugs/anonymous homosexual sex was to get addicted to something else, the āex-gay lifestyleā except itās not that glamorous or adrenaline inducing, so many fall off the boat.
I have yet to meet a man who says heās āex-gayā and actually straight. They may marry women, often ex-lesbians, but they have to exercise their marital visits in the dark, because they both have to fantasize a same sex partner to actually do the deed. I canāt imagine a worse environment to grow up in, with two parents who have no attraction to one another, built on lies.
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Bennie_P
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thewalrus
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Oh my, I really didnāt think there were people out there who said this stuff anymore. I donāt even know if Iām mad - itās somewhat just amazing. Quote your source on statistics, please. Iām dying to see what you come up with. Dude, this stuff was debunked like 20 years ago. Have you been in hibernation? I mean, you just actually used the term āgay cancerā in the 21st century.
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pathia
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I am most certainly not a sadist and I donāt know any sadist bisexuals. Where are you pulling this from?Iāmso ignorant let correct myself, it is a bi-sexual tendacy
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thewalrus
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Umm, no Bennie thatās not what that quote says. That quote says the Marquis de Sade had a homosexual encounter. In what way does that prove that the term āsadismā denotes a bisexual behavior??Iāmso ignorant let correct myself, it is a bi-sexual tendacy
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GodLovesTheSpek
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If so-called ātruthā changes in essense then it was never the truth. The truth as revealed to us through Him and The Vicar Of Christ (ex cathedra) is infallible and immutable. It does not change. We can more fully or less fully understand the Truth but the Truth can not, will not change in substance.
Is the Eucharist the Body and Blood. Yes.
Is it The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit as one. Yes.
When Vicar Of Christ speaks/reveals Ex Cathedra is it infallible. Yes.
Now while we may not fully grasp the meaning of these Truths and we continue to contemplate and ask for His help, these Truths, in essence, can not and will not change.
Is the Eucharist the Body and Blood. Yes.
Is it The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit as one. Yes.
When Vicar Of Christ speaks/reveals Ex Cathedra is it infallible. Yes.
Now while we may not fully grasp the meaning of these Truths and we continue to contemplate and ask for His help, these Truths, in essence, can not and will not change.
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