Language has context.
If I pull out a gun and shoot someone on purpose, I have committed murder. However, if that person is threatening my life, it’s justifiable. If that person is downrange (and not visible) at a designated shooting range, it’s a horrible accident. Adultery is an offence against your (or someone else’s) spouse. If all spouses involved say it’s cool, no offence has been committed.
Murder is the killing of an innocent person. Obviously if someone is threatening your life, he/she is not innocent and ergo, you have not murdered him/her.
All spouses involved say it’s cool. That may very well be what they say, but not necessarily what they really mean. We don’t know with absolute certainty (except for ourselves) and there is still the problem of regret later one, not to mention the harm I have already discussed. Oh, I forgot to mention that promiscuity can lead to STDs, one of which is AIDS.
As a Catholic I can say it really cheapens the sex act and the marriage covenant and goes right along with the use of contraception and procured abortion - it’s a lack of respect for human beings and an aid to further slipping down that ol’ slippery slope.
What if a 14 year-old’s parents decide that it’s OK for her to be promiscuous, with her agreement? What if she is promiscuous with her brothers? What if she is promiscuous with her sister and her sister’s friends? What if her 42 year-old uncle is quite willing? Is this OK? What if a Catholic priest decides that he wants to have sexual relations with a nun and she is willing? Is this OK? What if a man decides he likes sadism and the woman agrees and he slaps her around during sex? Is this OK?
I’m not asking these question to insult you; believe me, that is the last thing I want to do to anyone. I’m curious because I’ve never had a discussion with someone like you, in an open marriage.
In a way I understand your situation. If everyone involved is an adult and gives full consent and takes precautions against STDs (as best they can), what is the problem? This is where we will not agree. I believe adultery is a sin and a grevious one at that. You don’t. And there is no way on earth we will ever come to an agreement about this point. But it’s still good to discuss it so that we can learn and maybe one or both of us will read part of a post and realize that we really didn’t ever think of the point being made.
You’re right, they’re not stupid, and I must concede it’s not impossible that my wife’s son has an inkling of what’s up. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. Why? Because all he knows is that his mother and I have an active social life, and we go out with friends on a regular basis. Unless he’s hacked into our email (and I’m 99.9% sure that hasn’t happened) he would have no way of knowing what goes on at the parties and events we go to.
Why are you hiding it? Are you hiding it? If it’s OK and won’t cause any harm, why not let him know? Why not raise him with the message that it’s perfectly OK to have sex with anyone as long as everyone consents?
That’s all well and good, but it’s also quite different that giving your children a graphic blow by blow description of what you and your SO did in bed last night.
Which would, of course, be entirely inappropriate and I think we agree on that!! But what would you do if your son came out and asked you about the other women and the other men and women involved with your wife? Would you lie to him?
That ‘regret’ is catholic guilt, and nothing more. There is no reason for genuinely consensual casual sex to cause guilt, because you have not harmed anyone.
I’ve already explained how it causes harm. You won’t agree with me, but I stick to what I posted. I have heard many men (and women) say they regret their earlier promiscuous days and they are not Catholic. So it is not Catholic guilt, at least not in all (probably most) cases. It is regret that one did not wait for the one right person to share a very intimate act with.
The following question is only because I’m curious and I really mean nothing offensive by it: Do you think that Catholic behavior is significantly caused by guilt put on Catholics by the Church? I’ve heard this before and I’d like to know what you think. (Actually that would be a good thread by itself, too.)
You are right, but conversations have a tendency of drifting over time. I believe our conversation is a result of my response to a post that used the fact that many gay couples are consensually not monogamous as a reason for the continued prohibition on them marrying, and I pointed out that not all heterosexual couples are monogamous either, and used myself as an example.
I agree, but I would prefer it if we keep this thread on-topic and discuss this current subject on a new thread. I don’t think it’s fair to remain on off-topic. Besides, if another thread is started some new people may come in and post; people who wouldn’t post here because this thread is not about what we are discussing. So I’m not going to respond to any more posts regarding this subject on this thread. You can start a new thread or I can (in the next few days). If I do I’ll give you a link in this thread and I would be happy if you did the same for me.
It’s an interesting and important subject and should be discussed.
And one last thing: I appreciate your charity. It’s rare on CAF for people to be so charitable when they disagree. Thank you.
That’s not a person he would normally mock.
