Gay Marriage

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Theirs is not a “definitional” argument. They do, indeed, argue that marriage is a distinct “object in nature,” (they refer to it as a ‘human good’) a reality which, by any name, would be recognizable to any rational being.

Before I set down my rather inept summary of the argument in the book, a disclaimer is in order. The extent to which the authors support and augment their thesis is very important to truly grasp how cogent their statement of the argument really is.

The central argument is that there exists in the nature of humanity and reality itself an undeniable “good” for human beings. That “good” is a uniquely integral state or manner of human existence commonly called “marriage” which can only be realized by a heterosexual pair of human beings. This “state” is conjugal in essence and differs from other relationships such as friendships, sibling relationships, parent-child relationships, golf-buddies, sports teams, and, in short, any other kind of relationships that human beings can become a part of.

Conjugal marriages are unique in that these involve the “coming together” of two distinct but compatible human persons along physical, psychological, spiritual and social “planes” for an intended end - to further the physical, psychological, spiritual and social relationship of the conjugal pair in space and time. The pair becomes “expansive” in its relationship by its unique ability to create new embodiments of their relationship in real space and time. No other human relationship can do this, which is why conjugal marriage is unique and one of the reasons why it ought to be treated uniquely under the law.

The authors deal with all the standard objections to the “conjugal” view of marriage and reply effectively to the typical “revisionist” arguments. This book should be required reading for anyone seeking to understand what a redefinition of marriage entails and why it will ultimately fail - at least in any society that seeks its own survival and continuance.
So, the basic problem is confusing human perception and prejudices with “nature”.

By now, we know the perception has a reference point. Clinging to an Aristotelian POV sounds erudite, but is essentially irrelevant, given thousands if years of progress.
 
From everything I have heard and read, because I have yet to read it myself but have full intention to do so, for those who do not think love is a necessary component of marriage, read Theology of the Body and go to the corresponding website.
I do think love is a necessary component for marriage. But I don’t think love is what our culture thinks it is, and I don’t think love is a sufficient component for marriage.
 
Romantic love is absolutely not required for marriage. There should be a DEVOTIONAL love, of course. However, they are not the same type of love, and the colloquial term of “love” as romantic is most definitely not required.
Debating me ultimately is futile and means nothing in regard to my post. Research the information. That’s why I mentioned it and what I intend to do.
 
So, the basic problem is confusing human perception and prejudices with “nature”.
Or short shrifting human perception and intellect by the misapplication of human perception and intellect. Pick your poison.
By now, we know the perception has a reference point. Clinging to an Aristotelian POV sounds erudite, but is essentially irrelevant, given thousands if years of progress.
As if a pretense that thousands of years of “progress” have rendered all previous thinking irrelevant is any more erudite sounding.

I noticed you didn’t make a move to actually read or refute the argument, but merely attempted to dismiss it based upon a fallacious appeal to novelty.

How about you actually do some real intellectual work and attempt a refutation of the Aristotelian POV rather than make empty assertions?

edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2014/05/schools-out-forever.html

alexanderpruss.blogspot.ca/search/label/marriage

thomism.wordpress.com/?s=Marriage

maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/.services/blog/6a010535ce1cf6970c010535c82845970b/search?filter.q=Marriage

tofspot.blogspot.ca/search?q=Marriage
 
To your last point - some of the benefits accorded to married people don’t make sense to me. Eg. why is joint tax filing (which is financially beneficial) available to a married couple in the USA? I would have thought such financial benefits are more logically attached to the presence of children in the family (and other countries operate on this more sensible basis).
In the USA, joint tax filing is not necessarily financially beneficial. If we are talking about a working couple, it is not beneficial for most people. Until 2003, a single working couple paid less income tax than a married working couple.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘the presence’ of children in the family. Part of the reason for government support of marriage is that a spouse is not earning full monetary income while children are being raised and this has a permanent effect on both spouse’s ability to earn their own retirement, income, etc. It would seem to me that the ‘presence’ would mean the marriage produced children.

I think we do have to review the different ways in which government treats single and married people; it makes it difficult when we call single people married.
 
If I were not a Christian, and I was in college, I would totally join up with a friend and get “married”, so that we could get state benefits of marriage
I knew a guy that did that while I was in college. They got married to receive higher GI bill benefits, then planned to get divorced after graduation. They went to school is two different states.
…at which point your ‘friend’ would entitled to take half your fortune and alimony! 👍
That is a risk. Someone could take half of the vast fortune you’ve acquired as an undergraduate.
 
With the coming legalization of multiple party “marriages,” to be followed no doubt by further deviations, the secular definition of “marriage” will become completely meaningless. What will be left is that meaningless secular term, versus holy matrimony, which is God’s marriage and will never change.
 
In the USA, joint tax filing is not necessarily financially beneficial. If we are talking about a working couple, it is not beneficial for most people. Until 2003, a single working couple paid less income tax than a married working couple.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘the presence’ of children in the family. Part of the reason for government support of marriage is that a spouse is not earning full monetary income while children are being raised and this has a permanent effect on both spouse’s ability to earn their own retirement, income, etc. It would seem to me that the ‘presence’ would mean the marriage produced children.

I think we do have to review the different ways in which government treats single and married people; it makes it difficult when we call single people married.
Gay marriage advocates regularly refer to the injustice of being unable to joint file to get the financial benefit. Peter Plato defended the financial tax benefits given to married couples in the US, so I assume they exist.

I am saying this. Two single people lodge their tax returns and each pays their tax. When those two marry, their tax situation should not change in any material way. If / when they have children, benefits could reasonably cut in. Benefits should attach because there are children, not because of marriage alone.
 
Gay marriage advocates regularly refer to the injustice of being unable to joint file to get the financial benefit. Peter Plato defended the financial tax benefits given to married couples in the US, so I assume they exist.

I am saying this. Two single people lodge their tax returns and each pays their tax. When those two marry, their tax situation should not change in any material way. If / when they have children, benefits could reasonably cut in. Benefits should attach because there are children, not because of marriage alone.
There are actually both penalties and benefits to being married.

turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Family/7-Tax-Advantages-of-Getting-Married-/INF17870.html

However, having children does result in dependent benefits but precisely because dependents are more expensive to maintain.

I am not sure about the US specifically, but in many jurisdictions marriage is not required to file taxes jointly.
 
There are actually both penalties and benefits to being married.

turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Family/7-Tax-Advantages-of-Getting-Married-/INF17870.html

However, having children does result in dependent benefits but precisely because dependents are more expensive to maintain.

I am not sure about the US specifically, but in many jurisdictions marriage is not required to file taxes jointly.
See now, the penalty part makes it clear that gay folks just want to pay their fair share in taxes, and not allow the people of the nation to be defrauded because they aren’t allowed to marry. Pure altruism.

:yup:
 
Gay marriage advocates regularly refer to the injustice of being unable to joint file to get the financial benefit. Peter Plato defended the financial tax benefits given to married couples in the US, so I assume they exist.
I was referring only to federal income tax and working couples. In the USA, married and single pay the same tax. Before 2003, the married couple paid more tax.
I am saying this. Two single people lodge their tax returns and each pays their tax. When those two marry, their tax situation should not change in any material way.
If / when they have children, benefits could reasonably cut in. Benefits should attach because there are children, not because of marriage alone.
That is the way it is on the USA, assuming they both are working.

There are other taxes, like inheritance tax, which can benefit married people.
 
See now, the penalty part makes it clear that gay folks just want to pay their fair share in taxes, and not allow the people of the nation to be defrauded because they aren’t allowed to marry. Pure altruism.

:yup:
From what I understand there has been no greater charitable case in history than the United States government, so it is possible they have been moved by the great need.
 
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