Gay Rights and Religion

[Cristiano]

Being transgender also does not matter. Because it is what is on the inside that really counts, in their heart, not their superficial appearance.

You are correct! If they choose to go against God’s will, it is a choice that they make in their hearts and in their minds.

Do you think that Lucifer looked ugly? I doubt that, but what was inside him that really counted. Now he has to bear the consequences.

 

[blessedtoo]

My opinion is why would homosexuals want to partake in an institution that dislikes them?

Why would you want to follow the same practice as a group of people who hate your lifestyle?

It seems strange that people would want to do that and I cant understand the logic behind it.

The “gay rights movement” and the push to legalize gay marriage originated with the feminist movement of the late 60’s and 70’s. If anyone is old enough to remember (like me!) their original platform was based on the notion that marriage for a woman was akin to prison or a concentration camp. It has been a militant attempt to convince women that they don’t need men and don’t need marriage. These same feminists, which unfortunately included many hood-winked men, ushered in the dawn of the gay rights movement. None of these activists are interested in “joining” an institution which “hates” them. To clarify that point: The Church does not hate - nor does the government. The positions we hold as believers are based on love of God and fellow man. The position of the state is to bestow benefits and recognition upon traditional marriage because that is where new “little citizens” of the state will come from.

The gay marriage obejctive is not to “join”. The objective is to overturn tradition. Most activists are also pro-open marriage, multiple partners, polygamy, etc.

 

[Bennie_P]

The “gay rights movement” and the push to legalize gay marriage originated with the feminist movement of the late 60’s and 70’s. If anyone is old enough to remember (like me!) their original platform was based on the notion that marriage for a woman was akin to prison or a concentration camp. It has been a militant attempt to convince women that they don’t need men and don’t need marriage. These same feminists, which unfortunately included many hood-winked men, ushered in the dawn of the gay rights movement. None of these activists are interested in “joining” an institution which “hates” them. To clarify that point: The Church does not hate - nor does the government. The positions we hold as believers are based on love of God and fellow man. The position of the state is to bestow benefits and recognition upon traditional marriage because that is where new “little citizens” of the state will come from.

The gay marriage obejctive is not to “join”. The objective is to overturn tradition. Most activists are also pro-open marriage, multiple partners, polygamy, etc.

Many people don’t get that point, acceptance is not the goal, but to change the paradigm of natural law.

 

[maria_rose]

My opinion is why would homosexuals want to partake in an institution that dislikes them?

Why would you want to follow the same practice as a group of people who hate your lifestyle?

It seems strange that people would want to do that and I cant understand the logic behind it.

This issue is not about who dislikes or hates who. It is about deviance wanting to be accepted as normal. That is impossible. We cannot allow perversion become normality. it would destroy any societal moral fiber left.
Secondly Gay relationships as “marriage” doesn’t need to be even argued in light of religion or morality. It is wrong biologically. we were not designed to have intimate relations with our anus, we have specifically designed parts for intimacy.
Abuse of other areas brings damage, desease and worse.

Great thread! keep it going!

 

[emily47017]

My opinion is why would homosexuals want to partake in an institution that dislikes them?

i’ve had the same question knocking around in my head all my life. there was a point at which i was drawn toward the church but was trying with all my heart not to accept that i would have to leave behind my sexual orientation in order to be fully submissive to christ. in that time, i found many essays and personal stories that were affirming of that position.

i’ve changed my perspective now, and no longer agree with the premise of these writings… but i still find them beautiful. they speak to a larger question: what is the place of sinners in the church? well, my goodness! the church is entirely made up of sinners!

here’s the last paragraph from the essay i love the best.

I bother with the church because God bothered with me, as flawed as I was and as flawed as I remain. The church is imperfect and so am I, yet I dream for the church God calls us each to be and am committed to offering what I have and who I am to bringing about its transformation.

 

[Maxply]

Back to the original post. It seems to me that “rights” are usually viewed as pertaining to individuals or corporations.

Marriage involves two persons. I’m not being nit picky, but since two people are involved, it greatly broadens the scope of social interest in the arrangement, in at least the same way that two contracting individuals, using their individual economic liberties, call into motion a range of “contract-empowering” social devices: the institutions of civil law, the police force of the state, etc., as well as specific protections for each of the contracting party’s personal rights.

Additionally, marriage necessarily is both backwards and forwards looking. Other relatives are a real part of the picture of stakeholders, other families. Future generations are affected, etc.

So society DOES have a great stake in marriage.

 

[Edward62]

Sex change operations are not necessary to save the life of the person.

What about if a person is suicidal because of their transgenderism? Many people with gender identity dysphoria… up to 50% it is said by some… attempt suicide before the age of 20!

 

[maria_rose]

What about if a person is suicidal because of their transgenderism? Many people with gender identity dysphoria… up to 50% it is said by some… attempt suicide before the age of 20!

In that case of survival you,the counselor/therapist deal with the person’s depression/ anxiety and so on, but you don’t change a person’s sex.
By the way, suicide is a sin as well.
Transgender people need extensive counseling help to deal with who they are.

 

[Della]

What about if a person is suicidal because of their transgenderism? Many people with gender identity dysphoria… up to 50% it is said by some… attempt suicide before the age of 20!

Along with Marie Rose’s fine response, I think we need to broaden that question to include people like Jeffery Dahmer who had a need to eat dead people. Now that’s extreme, but at one time transgender people were considered extreme too, now we’re supposed to cater to everyone’s lowest weaknesses instead of treating them as very sick individuals who need help, not affirm their sicknesses as if they were just as normal as heterosexual relationships.

 

[Sina]

I don’t think gays should be allowed to marry in the Church because that is what the Church and scripture says. I do believe, however, that gays can and should be allowed to marry with a JP presiding. Just as secular society believes in divorce and cohabitation and contraception etc… etc…

And NO, I highly doubt the human rights that the gay community is seeking will be pushed in the Catholic church as much as people think it is.

Yes I know we should be telling people they are committing a grave sin, but they wont care. You can’t push your religious beliefs on other people. That is what the gentleman is saying in this. They already KNOW what our position is and they don’t care.

It is unfortunate that human rights get blurred with religion. Both sides have a right to believe what they believe. I don’t have a problem with gay marriage, just like I don’t have a problem with condoms being sold in the drugstore. Let people make up their own minds and their own choices. We don’t live in a fundamentalist Christian state ( unlike some countries living in a fundamentalist Islamic state)

The polygamy argument is getting old. I am sick of people saying " oh what next, people marrying their dogs?" That is offensive.

 

[Riley259]

The “gay rights movement” and the push to legalize gay marriage originated with the feminist movement of the late 60’s and 70’s. If anyone is old enough to remember (like me!) their original platform was based on the notion that marriage for a woman was akin to prison or a concentration camp. It has been a militant attempt to convince women that they don’t need men and don’t need marriage. These same feminists, which unfortunately included many hood-winked men, ushered in the dawn of the gay rights movement. None of these activists are interested in “joining” an institution which “hates” them. To clarify that point: The Church does not hate - nor does the government. The positions we hold as believers are based on love of God and fellow man. The position of the state is to bestow benefits and recognition upon traditional marriage because that is where new “little citizens” of the state will come from.

The gay marriage obejctive is not to “join”. The objective is to overturn tradition. Most activists are also pro-open marriage, multiple partners, polygamy, etc.

Very well stated.