Gay wedding question

[Rachel126]

The gay wedding question below prompts me to ask this. It’s just out of curiosity, as I don’t expect any such invitations in the near future (though one never knows, I guess).

Are Catholics expressly forbidden from attending such ceremonies? If so, why is this different from individual Catholic attendance at, for example, a civil or non-Catholic wedding of a divorced Catholic person (without annullment)? I have seen this question (about the remarriage of a divorced person) on the Ask an Apologist section and the answer given by the apologist was that the Church does not absolutely forbid attendance and leaves this up to the potential wedding guest, understanding that there are often delicate family issues involved.

 

[1ke]

Are Catholics expressly forbidden from attending such ceremonies?

Is there a canon law? No

But, then, the Church really doesn’t work like that. We are expected to apply common sense, the moral law, Church law, and to listen to our shepherds-- who have told us not to attend such “weddings”.

Given the Catechism section posted above, it should be clear that a Catholic cannot attend or support such a mockery of marriage.

An excellent article:

osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/8617/Should-Catholics-attend-invalid-weddings.aspx

If so, why is this different from individual Catholic attendance at, for example, a civil or non-Catholic wedding of a divorced Catholic person (without annullment)?

It isn’t, really. We should not be attending those either.

I have seen this question (about the remarriage of a divorced person) on the Ask an Apologist section and the answer given by the apologist was that the Church does not absolutely forbid attendance and leaves this up to the potential wedding guest, understanding that there are often delicate family issues involved.

As the article I linked above says, those do have the potential to be a valid marriage. A gay “marriage” does not.

But, really, we should not be attending invalid marriages at all. It does not matter that there is no canon. The Church cannot come out with a canon for everything. it is enough that She has said we sin when we participate in other’s sins.

 

[VanSensei]

The gay wedding question below prompts me to ask this. It’s just out of curiosity, as I don’t expect any such invitations in the near future (though one never knows, I guess).

Are Catholics expressly forbidden from attending such ceremonies? If so, why is this different from individual Catholic attendance at, for example, a civil or non-Catholic wedding of a divorced Catholic person (without annullment)? I have seen this question (about the remarriage of a divorced person) on the Ask an Apologist section and the answer given by the apologist was that the Church does not absolutely forbid attendance and leaves this up to the potential wedding guest, understanding that there are often delicate family issues involved.

One just has to use personal judgment. If you think it’s right, go, if you don’t, don’t go but be kind about it.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Is there a canon law? No

But, then, the Church really doesn’t work like that. We are expected to apply common sense, the moral law, Church law, and to listen to our shepherds-- who have told us not to attend such “weddings”.

Given the Catechism section posted above, it should be clear that a Catholic cannot attend or support such a mockery of marriage.

An excellent article:

osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/8617/Should-Catholics-attend-invalid-weddings.aspx

It isn’t, really. We should not be attending those either.

As the article I linked above says, those do have the potential to be a valid marriage. A gay “marriage” does not.

But, really, we should not be attending invalid marriages at all. It does not matter that there is no canon. The Church cannot come out with a canon for everything. it is enough that She has said we sin when we participate in other’s sins.

Please talk to your priest before following this advice. My husband is an atheist who was born and raised catholic. We just got married in a civil ceremony surrounded by my family and his. We even had a Catholic groomsman. His parents spoke with their priest who advised them to go, his extended family spoke with theirs, and his lifelong friend spoke with his. All of them said different versions of the same thing about following the spirit vs. letter of the law and it being more beneficial to maintain a good relationship with us and take joy in our joy while also praying that we find god together.

Please speak to your priest and see what he says before
you risk harming a family relationship because of what an anonymous person online says, while admitting that it isn’t even a church teaching.

 

[1ke]

His parents spoke with their priest who advised them to go, his extended family spoke with theirs, and his lifelong friend spoke with his.

It is always possible to find someone who will approve or encourage us to do what we ought not do. Evidence of such does not make it right.

All of them said different versions of the same thing about following the spirit vs. letter of the law

What a shame.

while admitting that it isn’t even a church teaching.

No, Church teaching is quite clear that we are not to participate in the sin of others, condone, approve, etc.

What I conveyed is that there is no canon law nor does there need to be.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

My Catholic friend had a sister who was getting married outside the Church and our priest told him he could not attend that service.

Motives of human respect will not excuse us on the day of Judgement.

[bibledrb]Luke 12:51-53[/bibledrb]

You’re going to step on a few toes, even family members toes.

 

[SMGS127]

Please talk to your priest before following this advice. My husband is an atheist who was born and raised catholic. We just got married in a civil ceremony surrounded by my family and his. We even had a Catholic groomsman. His parents spoke with their priest who advised them to go, his extended family spoke with theirs, and his lifelong friend spoke with his. All of them said different versions of the same thing about following the spirit vs. letter of the law and it being more beneficial to maintain a good relationship with us and take joy in our joy while also praying that we find god together.

Please speak to your priest and see what he says before
you risk harming a family relationship because of what an anonymous person online says, while admitting that it isn’t even a church teaching.

I must ask; what about this marriage is illegitimate? It just seems like it is a heterosexual civil ceremony between two Baptized persons. Unless one of you has been previously “divorced,” I see no reason for this to be non-Sacramental, let alone a marriage that people would be barred from attending.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

It is always possible to find someone who will approve or encourage us to do what we ought not do. Evidence of such does not make it right.

What a shame.

No, Church teaching is quite clear that we are not to participate in the sin of others, condone, approve, etc.

What I conveyed is that there is no canon law nor does there need to be.

Yeah, except that no one went looking for a priest to give them a specific answer. Furthermore, you are not a priest, and the situation was far more nuanced than that. It was made extremely, even uncomfortably clear to us that they were not condoning or celebrating our “sin”. Lots and lots of long talks about being happy that their son won’t be alone and will be taken care of (he has a life threatening medical condition) is not the same as being happy about a secular wedding. Lots of talks about how they won’t nag but they’ll never stop reminding us to get it recognized, talks about how they pray and will continue to pray for us to find god. There was no question in anyone’s mind that this was not a celebration or approval of our “invalid” marriage.

There is more than one way to make a point. They chose the way that wouldn’t keep them from being able to influence us in the future with the approval of their priest. We got the message.

 

[SMGS127]

My Catholic friend had a sister who was getting married outside the Church and our priest told him he could not attend that service.

Motives of human respect will not excuse us on the day of Judgement.

[bibledrb]Luke 12:51-53[/bibledrb]

You’re going to step on a few toes, even family members toes.

We’re not allowed to attend Sacramental marriages outside the Church? (for example, between two Protestants?) I find that incredibly hard to believe.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I must ask; what about this marriage is illegitimate? It just seems like it is a heterosexual civil ceremony between two Baptized persons. Unless one of you has been previously “divorced,” I see no reason for this to be non-Sacramental, let alone a marriage that people would be barred from attending.

Catholics are required to marry in the church or get a dispensation. According to the catholic church he’s catholic, although he does not believe in god. We were married in a civil ceremony at a banquet hall by the JoP. Not only was it not a catholic wedding but god wasn’t even mentioned and there were no prayers, except for the one a group of his relatives stepped out to participate in.

 

[1ke]

I must ask; what about this marriage is illegitimate? It just seems like it is a heterosexual civil ceremony between two Baptized persons. Unless one of you has been previously “divorced,” I see no reason for this to be non-Sacramental, let alone a marriage that people would be barred from attending.

A Catholic is obligated to marry in the Catholic form or receive a dispensation from form to marry in a non-Catholic ceremony.

In the case you are asking about, the Catholic is not practicing and opted to be married in a civil ceremony without the Church’s permission. That is an invalid marriage. As a Catholic, he is not free to marry anywhere or anyone he pleases. He, of course, being a professed atheist at this point, rejects that position.

But, Catholic he is and Catholic he remains nonetheless.

 

[1ke]

We’re not allowed to attend Sacramental marriages outside the Church? (for example, between two Protestants?) I find that incredibly hard to believe.

That was not what the person said. Certainly we can attend a valid marriage between non-Catholics. The poster was not talking about non-Catholics. They clearly said a person attempting marriage outside the Church-- i.e. a Catholic. A Catholic cannot marry validly outside the Church without dispensation. It is not a valid marriage.

 

[SMGS127]

That was not what the person said. Certainly we can attend a valid marriage between non-Catholics. The poster was not talking about non-Catholics. They clearly said a person attempting marriage outside the Church-- i.e. a Catholic. A Catholic cannot marry validly outside the Church without dispensation. It is not a valid marriage.

So if someone falls away from the Church (after Confirmation as a teenager), gets married at 20, and returns to the Church at 25, they will have to have a new marriage ceremony to make it valid?

 

[1ke]

So if someone falls away from the Church (after Confirmation as a teenager), gets married at 20, and returns to the Church at 25, they will have to have a new marriage ceremony to make it valid?

Yes, this is called a convalildation. In some circumstances, they may also be able to convalidate through a radical sanation which does not involve a new exchange of consent.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

The gay wedding question below prompts me to ask this. It’s just out of curiosity, as I don’t expect any such invitations in the near future (though one never knows, I guess).

Are Catholics expressly forbidden from attending such ceremonies? If so, why is this different from individual Catholic attendance at, for example, a civil or non-Catholic wedding of a divorced Catholic person (without annullment)?

There is a huge difference between a “gay wedding” and a wedding between heterosexual couple. There is not doubt that the “gay wedding” is 100% invalid. And, FWIW, just because a gay couple can receive a civil “marriage” certificate doesn’t mean anything. A civil “marriage” no longer has any of the basic elements that are part of traditional marriage, therefore it is “marriage” in name only.

The latter case is more problematic for many reasons. For marriages between non-Catholics where one or more of the parties is divorced, we can only presume it is invalid. On the surface it appears to be, but if challenged the Tribunal may in fact find the prior marriage invalid, which makes the current marriage the valid one. For marriages involving a divorced Catholic, it is more likely to be invalid, but how do we know for certain the party didn’t receive a decree or nullity and/or dispensation to marry in a civil wedding? With the way so many families are dispersed nowadays, it’s difficult to know the gory details of one’s personal life.

 

[Rachel126]

I searched and found answers on the Ask an Apologist section. The basics: The Church has spoken out so strongly against gay marriage, we should not attend. As for a presumptively-invalid marriage between a man and a woman (such as, involving a person who has been married before), this is considerably more nuanced. The fact that there is no canon law forbidding attendance is NOT, as alluded to by a previous poster, because “we should know better and shouldn’t need a law.” As explained by Michelle Arnold:

"However easier it may make it for Catholics to be able to point to an ecclesial document and explain that this is the reason that a Catholic cannot attend a presumptively-invalid marriage, it is in fact much more merciful of the Church not to treat all presumptively-invalid marriages with a “cookie-cutter”-mentality by forbidding the attendance of Catholics no matter the circumstances.

Such a ruling would not take into consideration the infinite possible differences in circumstances or family dynamics that might make attending one such wedding reasonable and another such wedding impossible."

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=64951

 

[SighGuy]

Oh, smokes, I never considered all of this. Just a week ago I was the best man for my friend who had a Protestant wedding. Is that okay? I mean, they’re brothers in the faith, so a Protestant wedding is fine, just not an illegal Catholic remarriage or civil wedding or gay wedding, right?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Catholics are required to marry in the church or get a dispensation. According to the catholic church he’s catholic, although he does not believe in god. We were married in a civil ceremony at a banquet hall by the JoP. Not only was it not a catholic wedding but god wasn’t even mentioned and there were no prayers, except for the one a group of his relatives stepped out to participate in.

So what? this is about GAY weddings, not weddings between atheists.

 

[1ke]

Oh, smokes, I never considered all of this. Just a week ago I was the best man for my friend who had a Protestant wedding. Is that okay? I mean, they’re brothers in the faith, so a Protestant wedding is fine, just not an illegal Catholic remarriage or civil wedding or gay wedding, right?

Yes, two Protestants who are otherwise free to marry each other (i.e. no prior bond, close kinship, etc) marry validly when they marry civilly. And it is fine to attend.

 

[marymary1975]

I have a question on this too: if a fallen catholic marries a Lutheran, most likely in a Lutheran service, are we forbiden to attend?