gay wedding

[Bookcat]

As Jesus said unless you “hate” your mother and father, wife and your children…you cannot be my disciple. We know of course that he is using a semitic way of speaking (not meaning hate literally) to make a point (a very real and important point)- that we must follow him even if it causes problems with family -and that we are to Love him above all…etc

And he said I have come not to bring peace but a sword. Whole households will be divided because of me…(see the Gospels)

One must approach it all with great love and gentleness and prudence - seeking to draw them yes to Jesus who is the true life. And yes loving family.

One is NOT going on any offensive -one is only loving and “obstaining” - “not doing” what one has been asked to do-- one is asked to do something that one ought not to do - to approve what one ought not to approve - it is not the Parent who is doing anything it is the Child.

The child is asking them to violate their conscience to approve and celebrate by their attendance what they cannot.

The parent is simply loving and not attending (a non action) what they cannot attend in their conscience.(think of St. Thomas More - yes he risked all by his “not doing” not going to the so called wedding etc - his family suffered poverty etc…and he in fact gave all).

The only authentic pastoral approach is one that involves both truth and love together and is not a means that yes by nature shows support, approval, celebrates. One cannot justify the means by the ends.

The Child is wounding themselves- and their family- the Parent is to love love love with great gentleness -the love of a Father- and yes with gentle truth.

I am not saying cut the child off or never see them or shun them etc…but rather love them.

This is also a moral issue - the sinfulness of our approval, of our celebration of such a gravely disordered event. By the ‘congrats’ and her is a gift. etc.

It is a source of scandal to all - including the little children (remember how Jesus spoke of such - things about millstones around the neck and bodies of water for those who scandalize one of his little ones…).

The ends do not justify the means.

Love, yes with great love and gentleness - and with truth. Love, gentleness, parental care (authentic not in the way the world suggests), avoiding any harshness etc - lovingly embracing ones child - but love in truth.

Without truth it is not love. And truth must be lived with great love.

 

[eamonnroma]

Absolutely. You must attend to support your son or you will regret it. I realize that I am the voice of dissent here, but I’m also probably the only one commenting here with a gay son. For most, this is merely a hypothetical situation, in which they have the luxury of considering the situation without actually having to deal with any real life consequences. Please do not listen to them. You will only damage your relationship with your son if you are not there to support him.

Of course. I agree with you. The world is not made up of black and white. Supporting your son is the most important thing. Supporting means loving, not approving. Absolsutely, you must go.

 

[eamonnroma]

We must not get hung up on rules. God will still love your son. So must you. Do what you know is correct.

 

[Bookcat]

Supporting your son is the most important thing. Supporting means loving, not approving. Absolsutely, you must go.

Nope.

See the various posts above.

Supporting in an authentic way is supporting the person in their true good.

To support one in doing a gravely evil thing is sinful. See Catechism above.

Love supports the person in truth. Without truth it is not love -it is acting against love.

It approve by attending is not to support the person but to approve them building their lives on sand…approving the harm that the ones son is engaging in.

It is not supporting one son.

 

[Bookcat]

We must not get hung up on rules. God will still love your son. So must you. Do what you know is correct.

It is not a matter of rules but of love and thus of truth.

If one attends and thus approves and celebrates such -one is not loving them.

 

[Bookcat]

"…courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world.

This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires.

On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith.

It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ.

Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion.

It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”.

He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino.html

 

[vsedriver]

My opinion exactly. There are no stronger connections than family.

except your connection to God.

 

[Bookcat]

"…courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world.

This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires.

On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith.

It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ.

Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion.

It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”.

He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino.html

 

[cycleman]

It is not a matter of rules but of love and thus of truth.

If one attends and thus approves and celebrates such -one is not loving them.

Bookcat,

There is so much we don’t know about this situation, such as the state of the current relationship between the parents and their child, and how seriously non-attendance at the wedding would damage the relationship. The son might be simply hurt but accepting of the decision, all the way through to breaking off the relationship permanently as a previous poster related happened to his partner. 18 years and no reconciliation.

These are the types of things that the OP needs to consider with their priest.

Again, I bring up the point that it’s easy to tell other people what to do when you are not the one facing the consequences. Tell me, if one of your children (if you have children) was to do the same thing, and you knew that refusal to attend would mean a total severing of the relationship, would you reconsider or just tell your kid " Sorry to see you go, but…"

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat,

There is so much we don’t know about this situation, such as the state of the current relationship between the parents and their child, and how seriously non-attendance at the wedding would damage the relationship. The son might be simply hurt but accepting of the decision, all the way through to breaking off the relationship permanently as a previous poster related happened to his partner. 18 years and no reconciliation.

These are the types of things that the OP needs to consider with their priest.

I understand your not a practicing Catholic at the moment- so you may not accept all that I noted.

One cannot choose an evil means (approving a gay marriage attempt by ones attendance of the celebration) for a good ends.

One must choose only good means (great love and gentleness, prayer etc) to the good end.

Again, I bring up the point that it’s easy to tell other people what to do when you are not the one facing the consequences. Tell me, if one of your children (if you have children) was to do the same thing, and you knew that refusal to attend would mean a total severing of the relationship, would you reconsider or just tell your kid " Sorry to see you go, but…"

No I would not say “that”…or would I suggest anyone to say things that way.

Again great love with truth and gentleness. My kids know I love them. And that will know that I will not lie to them or approve of any evil choices if such were ever made. They will know that love without truth is not love.

But love them and pray for them and be their Father.

And if my children said - unless you come to [it] [edited]- I will not talk with you again - should I go? No. Of course not. Or unless you drive me to get an abortion …etc etc… I cannot approve that which is gravely evil. The ends does not justify the means.

I would have to love them and love them and pray for them and sacrifice for them and wait for them…

 

[Bookcat]

"…courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world.

This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires.

On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith.

It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ.

Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion.

It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”.

He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth. The power of evil is falsehood. The power of faith, the power of God, is the truth."

~ Pope Benedict XVI

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino.html

 

[OraLabora]

approving a gay marriage attempt by ones attendance of the celebration)

It is a non-sequitur that attendance indicates approval.

If one of my sons got into trouble with the law, would my attendance in court indicate “approval” of his behaviour? Would it indicate that I believe him to be innocent even if I know him to be guilty?

Of course not. I’d still be there for him though.

The whole premise of your argument and your multiple posts about “truth” being needed for “love” etc. apparently hinges on this non-sequitur.

I respectfully suggest we give it a rest now. We know your position, some of us agree, some don’t. I think it’s run its course, and I hope we haven’t driven the OP away with this insensitive arguing, and that he instead heeds the advice to seek his pastor.

 

[Bookcat]

It is a non-sequitur that attendance indicates approval.

Why attend a “wedding”?

“You are invited to celebrate the wedding of Steve and Henry”

tis a “celebration” .

Such is to show approval.

And it is a participation in the rite.

What is a “wedding celebration?” supposed to be? What is supposed to be happening?

Hint …it is not a court case…

To borrow from Jimmy Akin’s (senior apologist at Catholic Answers) response to a different wedding question -the reason I quote is because of his explanation of the meaning of “attendance”:

“I would not attend such a wedding. In our culture, at least, attendance at a wedding represents a form of endorsement of and participation in the rite that is being enacted. For me to attend such a wedding would represent my endorsement of and participation in a sacrilegious rite, and that is something I will not do.” (from his blog)

Even if one does not accept such - it is very important to keep in mind that the reality involved in a “gay marriage” is very very different than other cases.

---

(for other readers: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12760790&postcount=13)​

 

[estesbob]

It appears we are going to be faced with the dilemma very soon. We are not going to attend but will continue to love and accept both our Daughter and her partner

 

[commenter]

It appears we are going to be faced with the dilemma very soon. We are not going to attend but will continue to love and accept both our Daughter and her partner

You and all those involved will have my prayers.

 

[jediliz]

I have a similar situation…except it’s a cousin. I will not risk my soul to celebrate a fake marriage. I am not that close to this person anyway.

 

[estesbob]

I have a similar situation…except it’s a cousin. I will not risk my soul to celebrate a fake marriage. I am not that close to this person anyway.

I actually don’t think I would risk my soul if I went to a homosexual wedding-I think help put their souls at further risk by affirming grievous sin

 

[Bookcat]

I actually don’t think I would risk my soul if I went to a homosexual wedding-I think help put their souls at further risk by affirming grievous sin

It would be problematic for those who attend …those who are having the celebration…and others there too…

 

[vsedriver]

Bookcat,

Again, I bring up the point that it’s easy to tell other people what to do when you are not the one facing the consequences. Tell me, if one of your children (if you have children) was to do the same thing, and you knew that refusal to attend would mean a total severing of the relationship, would you reconsider or just tell your kid " Sorry to see you go, but…"

As the mother of two sons, I would not go to a ceremony celebrating an inappropriate relationship. I love my sons, more than my life but I love God more than I love my sons. This would be a huge cross for me to bear if I were to be cut off from them. But I would be a failure as a parent if I didn’t model for my children my relationship with God.

However, I would never shun my child. His friend would be welcome in my home and at my table. But his friend will always be his friend and never referred to as a spouse.

 

[Havard]

It appears we are going to be faced with the dilemma very soon. We are not going to attend but will continue to love and accept both our Daughter and her partner

It’s sad that people present this blatant lie that if you do that, then you don’t love your child. You clearly love your gay daughter. I’m sure she knows it.