Gay? Why?

[TeJay]

This is my first post & I hope it has not already been answered. I am a cradle Catholic (63 years old) as is my high school friend. I am Married (38 years) & straight. Here’s the situation: We reach that magic age when the opposite sex takes on a new meaning. Did we really understand what was happening to our feelings? Nobody told us at age 8 to expect these changes. No one warned us to be prepared for these new stirrings in our bodies. But because of biology it happened. The hormones began to flow & we began to change both physically & emotionally. We did not have any control over these new feelings. What would any of us have done if these new stirrings were not for the opposite sex but this new attraction was towards the same sex??? We were warned not to act on these feelings. We could not even think lest we sin. When the time for marriage came I was permitted to act on these feelings as God had intended. I chose to marry my friend chose to move to CA. to live his lifestyle. I know I could not control what biology did to me during those early teen years. I felt an attraction for the opposite sex. My friend did not. He was never given the correct biological makeup to feel those feelings & I know he did not choose to be gay just as I did not choose to be heterosexual it just happened that way. So am I to assume that he is to go through life denying himself these biological feelings over which he had no control?? Is that his cross to bear given to him by the Lord?? I did not have to deny my feelings I got married. If I give in to my urges in marriage it’s OK. If he gives in to his urges it’s sinful. I know my friend & he did not choose to be gay. He tried to deny his feelings by drinking. He came to terms with his lifestyle and has been sober for 25 years. He also has left the Church because he can not live as he is and still remain a Catholic in good standing. I understand the Catholic churches position on being gay but I would like some better answers so I can understanding why it’s wrong if it is a biological matter first then it becomes a choice later.

 

[rlg94086]

This is my first post & I hope it has not already been answered. I am a cradle Catholic (63 years old) as is my high school friend. I am Married (38 years) & straight. Here’s the situation: We reach that magic age when the opposite sex takes on a new meaning. Did we really understand what was happening to our feelings? Nobody told us at age 8 to expect these changes. No one warned us to be prepared for these new stirrings in our bodies. But because of biology it happened. The hormones began to flow & we began to change both physically & emotionally. We did not have any control over these new feelings. What would any of us have done if these new stirrings were not for the opposite sex but this new attraction was towards the same sex??? We were warned not to act on these feelings. We could not even think lest we sin. When the time for marriage came I was permitted to act on these feelings as God had intended. I chose to marry my friend chose to move to CA. to live his lifestyle. I know I could not control what biology did to me during those early teen years. I felt an attraction for the opposite sex. My friend did not. He was never given the correct biological makeup to feel those feelings & I know he did not choose to be gay just as I did not choose to be heterosexual it just happened that way. So am I to assume that he is to go through life denying himself these biological feelings over which he had no control?? Is that his cross to bear given to him by the Lord?? I did not have to deny my feelings I got married. If I give in to my urges in marriage it’s OK. If he gives in to his urges it’s sinful. I know my friend & he did not choose to be gay. He tried to deny his feelings by drinking. He came to terms with his lifestyle and has been sober for 25 years. He also has left the Church because he can not live as he is and still remain a Catholic in good standing. I understand the Catholic churches position on being gay but I would like some better answers so I can understanding why it’s wrong if it is a biological matter first then it becomes a choice later.

Hi TeJay,

The “why” (and the “how” for that matter) are not known. What is known is that regardless of the cause, we are all called to chastity. As the desires for the same sex are “objectively disordered” (the desire is toward the wrong sex), the call to chastity means living a celibate life. We all have desires that can lead us to sin if we “give in to them,” but I would say it is a big cross indeed to have desire for someone of the same sex.

One analogy is kleptomania. If someone has a strong desire to steal, then regardless of the cause (psychological, in this case) the person can’t steal. Now, there are therapies for kleptomaniacs. There are also therapies for people with same sex attraction, but there are a lot of questions regarding their effectiveness (possibly because the cause is unknown - if it’s not psychological, psychology may not be an effective means of treatment).

As far as your underlined question - “what would any of us have done…” - I would say the answer obviously varies. There seem to be a few choices people make:

1. Bury the feelings and try to live a heterosexual life (can work, often doesn’t)
2. Go for therapy (can work, often doesn’t)
3. Live a chaste life (not a popular choice unfortunately, but some do)
4. Leave the Church (sadly happens)
5. Stay in the Church, but ignore her teachings (sadly happens)

 

[teachccd]

There are those whose sexual attraction is only towards pre-pubescent children. They have no attraction for adults. I have seen interviews with those who wish that they could do anything but bear this burden. Should they also act out on this behavior that they also did not choose?? One man chose castration because he hated this so much and the state denied it.

This is a very difficult topic as it is a very sensitive issue. We are talking about loving and very well meaning people. We have to understand what sin is in order to understand this “deprivation” of one’s sexuality. Many times I have an intense “need” to gossip. I’m almost hardwired for a juicy story. But nonetheless it becomes sinful when I engage in conversation that involves someone’s reputation. Many times it takes everything I’ve got to move away. Many heterosexual men have the same issues with pornography. It becomes so addictive that many feel that it is simply impossible to get away from it.

Yes, life is a gift and along with that gift comes struggles and temptation. Is a homosexual doing the will of God when he or she acts on those impulses?? No more than any of the other examples that I gave above.

I know many homosexual people and I am very compassionate towards their orientation for the reasons you mention as I am with someone who struggles with pornography, gossip, or any other sin. I too am a sinner and a very weak person at times. I cannot throw stones or judge souls. No one can or should. We leave that infinitely intensive job to God and I thank Him for delegating Himself for such a difficult position. God Bless…teachccd

 

[TMC]

There are those whose sexual attraction is only towards pre-pubescent children. They have no attraction for adults. I have seen interviews with those who wish that they could do anything but bear this burden. Should they also act out on this behavior that they also did not choose?? One man chose castration because he hated this so much and the state denied it.

Surely we can agree that there is a great world of difference between a homosexual and a pedophile? Its an insult to this gentleman’s friend to suggest that there is not.

I agree that it is a very difficult and sensitive issue. At least today most people agree that whatever reason people are homosexual it is not by choice. Having been made this way, they must find a way to live this way. That this was even more of a struggle in the 50’s and 60’s goes without saying.

TeJay, I think you will find this is an oft discussed topic on this and other forums. It is certainly easy for those of us whose biology lines up with doctrine to point to the doctrine. rlg94086’s five answers pretty much capture Church teaching on this point, but then you knew that. There are no easy answers. Are the two of you still in touch? The compassion and love of a friend goes a long way to helping with just about every problem. I hope that although he has left the Church he remembers that God loves him and that he still fits somehow into God’s plan. There are groups inside and outside of the Church that can help him to remember this. You’re a good friend for caring for him after all these years, many would not.

Peace, friend.

 

[teachccd]

Surely we can agree that there is a great world of difference between a homosexual and a pedophile? Its an insult to this gentleman’s friend to suggest that there is not.

.

It’s an insult to God to commit either. Disordered sexual activity (See the CCC ) includes homosexual acts. I did not make that up. The Church who is guided by the Holy Spirit insists on this. While you may think that there is a world of difference between a pedophile and a homosexual, both are grave acts (potentially mortal) and God does not distinguish between the two.Mortal sin is a separation from God regardless of the specific act. With your line of thinking, masturbation shouldn’t be a sin at all since it involves only yourself. Bad logic and definitely bad theology…

 

[TMC]

It’s an insult to God to commit either. Disordered sexual activity (See the CCC ) includes homosexual acts. I did not make that up. The Church who is guided by the Holy Spirit insists on this. While you may think that there is a world of difference between a pedophile and a homosexual, both are grave acts (potentially mortal) and God does not distinguish between the two.Mortal sin is a separation from God regardless of the specific act. With your line of thinking, masturbation shouldn’t be a sin at all since it involves only yourself. Bad logic and definitely bad theology…

Do you really believe that??? Missing Mass is a grave act (potentially mortal). Is it the moral equivalent of pedophilia?

I don’t usually tell people they are just plain wrong, but you are just plain wrong. God does not view all sins the same, all grave sins the same, or even all mortal sins the same. See the CCC.

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

A gentleman asks a serious and legitimate question about his life-long friend. I said that God loves his friend. You respond by telling him that his friend is no better than a man that rapes children. If you don’ t understand what’s wrong with that I cannot explain it.

Oh, and while you have me in a bad mood, please do not put words in my mouth, I did not comment on the morality of masturbation, or provide you with any ‘line of thinking’ on this or any matter.

 

[teachccd]

Do you really believe that??? Missing Mass is a grave act (potentially mortal). Is it the moral equivalent of pedophilia?

I don’t usually tell people they are just plain wrong, but you are just plain wrong. God does not view all sins the same, all grave sins the same, or even all mortal sins the same. See the CCC.

A gentleman asks a serious and legitimate question about his life-long friend. I said that God loves his friend. You respond by telling him that his friend is no better than a man that rapes children. If you don’ t understand what’s wrong with that I cannot explain it.

Oh, and while you have me in a bad mood, please do not put words in my mouth, I did not comment on the morality of masturbation, or provide you with any ‘line of thinking’ on this or any matter.

If you are so sure of you’re being correct you should not be in a bad mood. Sorry about that. I’m merely stating that mortal sin is mortal sin and hell is hell. That’s it, my friend. Now go and say a prayer for me that I can have the patience to continue because I too am at the end of my rope. And I never put words in your mouth or they would have been in quotes. The Church says that homosexual acts constitute grave matter and I’m sticking with that regardless of what mood that puts you in…I’m done…good-night…teachccd

 

[TeJay]

Thanks,
I’m somewhat enlightened by the replies but still have some concerns. Sexual attraction is, in my opinion a biological issue. It is not a learned behavior but simply a response to biology as God had intended. Why or how it goes wrong only God knows. I can see and I was** not** offended by teachccd’s reference to a pedophile who may only desire boys or little girls. That, while perverse, makes some sense in that the person desires what is wrong through no fault of his own. The acts are sinful but I’ll not judge how offended God may be.

What concerns me is what teachccd alluded to. Most of the world is sexually ordered correctly. Those who are not are outcasts from most faiths and by most societies. The LDS Church tried to fix a group of guys over I believe 10 or more years of intensive counseling and it failed miserably. I guess what I m trying to say is that there seems to be no fix and few reasonable choices. When an individual is called to the Religious life it is a call from God. They take a vow to deny their sexual feelings. That is a spiritual not a biological choice. It seems to me that God is really asking these individuals to bear a cross that most of us would drop in the first month.

Gentleman please don’t get upset over comments. These forums can be difficult at times because answers on many topics are multi faceted and remarks can be misunderstood. When I posted this thread I was concerned that the topic had already been discussed and inside me I was concerned that I might open a can of worms.
TMC, yes I am still in touch with my friend. He is talking about retiring to Arkansas. He has a Sister that lives here. If he does we will renew our friendship and I’m sure become more involved discussing these issues.

 

[goofyjim]

As long as one is living chastely I don’t see why they cannot happily embrace a homosexual orientation and therefore be gay. Just my two cents.

 

[blessedtoo]

Welcome to the Forums!

Sexual attraction is, in my opinion a biological issue. It is not a learned behavior but simply a response to biology as God had intended.

That may be your opinion, but it is not supported by science. You can choose to believe that your friend’s case represents homosexuality in total or take it for what it is: one case. There is still much to be learned about the origin of homosexuality, for those who are concerned with that question. For Catholics, it is irrelevent as having a homosexual orientation is not sinful. It is behavior which the Church judges and names as sinful. Every person who feels they have a homosexual orientation has the same opportunity for holiness and eternal salvation as the next person. It is up to each person to choose for themselves what is most important: the perception of personal happiness here on earth or an eternal friendship in the presence of God the Father.

What concerns me is what teachccd alluded to. Most of the world is sexually ordered correctly. Those who are not are outcasts from most faiths and by most societies.

Not true. All people are called to sanctity and holiness. Christian churches welcome all repentent sinners. In the Catholic Church, even sinners who remain stubbornly attached to their sinful lifestyles are welcome in the Church as long as they refrain from receiving the Eucharist.

The LDS Church tried to fix a group of guys over I believe 10 or more years of intensive counseling and it failed miserably.

LDS can’t be compared to the Christian Churches. For excellent examples of success with some reparative therpies, check out Courage (Catholic group) and Narth (Christian group).

I guess what I m trying to say is that there seems to be no fix and few reasonable choices.

As a woman who has been separated from her husband for 20 years, one could say the same of my situation. Many divorced folks who are ineligible for anullment are in the same situation. Single folks who never meet that perfect mate are in the same situation. Married couples who experience life altering circumstances which might affect their ability to express themselves sexually are in the same situation. This scenario is not exclusive to the homosexual person. In fact, since the generallly accepted percentage of people who are homosexual is said to be about 3%, one could argue that there are substantially more heterosexual folks who must live a life without sexual expression. The fact that our silly culture sees this as a “fate worse than death” is a reflection of how far society has fallen away from what truly matters.

When an individual is called to the Religious life it is a call from God. They take a vow to deny their sexual feelings. That is a spiritual not a biological choice. It seems to me that God is really asking these individuals to bear a cross that most of us would drop in the first month.

Everyone is called to chastity, regardless of their station in life. And as human beings, we are called to deny all sorts of feelings every day. I am certain that there are moments during the day when you would like to scream in anger at a co-worker, or wring the neck of your boss, but you don’t because we know that self-restraint is the cornerstone of of civilization. Why should our sexual feelings be exempt? And again, your impression that the homosexual orientation is biologically determined is unfounded. There are hundreds of threads on this forum that have discussed this issue. You might want to check that out.

 

[teachccd]

Thanks,
I’m somewhat enlightened by the replies but still have some concerns. Sexual attraction is, in my opinion a biological issue. It is not a learned behavior but simply a response to biology as God had intended. Why or how it goes wrong only God knows. I can see and I was** not** offended by teachccd’s reference to a pedophile who may only desire boys or little girls. That, while perverse, makes some sense in that the person desires what is wrong through no fault of his own. The acts are sinful but I’ll not judge how offended God may be.

What concerns me is what teachccd alluded to. Most of the world is sexually ordered correctly. Those who are not are outcasts from most faiths and by most societies. The LDS Church tried to fix a group of guys over I believe 10 or more years of intensive counseling and it failed miserably. I guess what I m trying to say is that there seems to be no fix and few reasonable choices. When an individual is called to the Religious life it is a call from God. They take a vow to deny their sexual feelings. That is a spiritual not a biological choice. It seems to me that God is really asking these individuals to bear a cross that most of us would drop in the first month.

Gentleman please don’t get upset over comments. These forums can be difficult at times because answers on many topics are multi faceted and remarks can be misunderstood. When I posted this thread I was concerned that the topic had already been discussed and inside me I was concerned that I might open a can of worms.
TMC, yes I am still in touch with my friend. He is talking about retiring to Arkansas. He has a Sister that lives here. If he does we will renew our friendship and I’m sure become more involved discussing these issues.

Thank you. My response was directed to you and you fully understood what I meant. There was no intent to insult your friend or anyone else for that matter.You are doing a great job with your concern and trying to find answers. I also have homosexual friends and so I know what you are experiencing when you see someone fight this battle. God Bless you and again thank you for reasoning out my entire post and not just pulling things out of context…teachccd

 

[goofyjim]

While I don’t support homosexual acts, I would prefer to let science do a little more research into what makes someone same sex attracted. Too many think it is just choice. It is not. I for one have had the feelings since my tender young years, even before puberty. And since there were no gay influences one can conclude that I was born that way. The free will comes into play on whether to act on it or not, but therapy to try change an inborn thing? Waste of time and money. I choose to be happy as I am.

 

[TeJay]

Wow,
A lot of food for thought. I guess I still have much to learn about this issue. Thanks to all who responded. Your thoughtful answers were much appreciated and I would still appreciate any other responses.
I am still puzzled concerning the scientific answer. It seems to me that biology plays a very large part and as was mentioned some feel these urges even before puberty. I will check other threads for more insight. Thanks again to all and “God Bless.”

TeJay