Gays In The Military

[ManOnFire]

If this is what gay men are thinking when joining the military then they will be sooooooo surprised come training Methinks this is an extremely unlikely position, unless you can support it.

I’m stating as a fact that showiering with physically fit women is what I would have thought as an 18 year old male. Are you honestly trying to pretend that 18 year old gay males have no sex drive at all? Because that’s the only way they can’t be thinking about it.

 

[Lypher]

I was never too worried about the looks, although they can be uncomfortable the issue is the change to the Military family. It would not be the same… It could not be you would have to change it and I doubt it would be as good, but then again if that is what the country wants then so be it. It will change… I have seen it change over the years and it is pretty good now, but this will cause a change to it moral core and so it would likely have a huge effect.

 

[CMatt25]

[BIBLEDRB]

homosexuality is condemned, but it doesn’t say “no military service”

since it is condemned though, i can’t support it

I’m sure then you must also support a literal 6 day 24 hr evening and morning Creation and women covering their heads and not speaking in church. There go the lectors. I suppose too you support slavery and other things in the Bible that many Christians including Catholics don’t take literally?

Gen 1:5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

Gen 1:31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:1 So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the furniture of them.

1Cor:14:34 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith.

 

[CMatt25]

What does this have to do with Catholicism? It seems to me it’s a political issue, not an issue of faith or morals.

The CC makes every political issue a moral issue nowadays. And you have to be a conservative Republican politically to be in good standing it almost appears. Sad it has come to this but that seems the way it is at least in the US. Christ must be crying about the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the sick, war while the CC worries to such a degree about other issues.

 

[Brendan]

While I understand the desire for modesty, when you are a professional, and if part of your job is to shower, then you need to get over it and do your job. I’m sure if you had a very small penis or some disfiguration of your genitalia then you might feel embarrassed when you have to shower with other people. But, we don’t make special arrangements for people because they feel uncomfortable due to modesty in the US military, or at least we shouldn’t.

I’ve been in the military ( Army Major, Armor)

We don’t ask women to shower with men, and it doesn’t matter what their cup size is. The reason is for modesty.

So don’t tell me that the military doesn’t make accomodations for those who would prefer to not shower with someone who would be attracted to them sexually.

It’s not just ‘accomodations’ but military policy, and I hope that policy remains forever.

 

[CMatt25]

Homophobia is utter nonsense. Even if we believe a homosexual lifestyle to be sinful, there are not other sinners in the military? Men and women serve side by side. Other countries have gays and lesbians serving. LOL the USA already has too! Get real ppl. I hope someday if your house is burning the first person to the scene is homosexual. And if you have a child in that burning house, be sure to ask the respondent’s sexual orientation before you allow them to save your child!

 

[lil_flower_luv]

The CC makes every political issue a moral issue nowadays. And you have to be a conservative Republican politically to be in good standing it almost appears. Sad it has come to this but that seems the way it is at least in the US. Christ must be crying about the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the sick, war while the CC worries to such a degree about other issues.

What are you talking about, might I ask?

If the CC “worries to such a degree” over things it is for good reason. We happen to have a very sad, corrupt world to deal with. We are called to care for the poor, the hungry, the homeless. But not just the physical poor, hungry and homeless. Our work is to help all people-- starting when they are formed in their mother’s womb all the way to their natural death. Do you think that has to do with homosexuals? Abortionists? Some wars don’t include blood at all.

Start defending your Church. She doesn’t make mistakes–we do. Get that right.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Catholics should not want openly gay people in the military–only because we don’t believe they should be openly gay at all. The “open” part is the sinful part.

We love them. We witness as much as we can to them. We invite them to take part in the body of Christ. Some of the holiest people my family knows are homosexuals choosing to live a chase life. They don’t have it easy! But they sure help my spiritual life.

 

[Brendan]

Homophobia is utter nonsense. Even if we believe a homosexual lifestyle to be sinful, there are not other sinners in the military? Men and women serve side by side.

But we don’t ask them to get changed side by side do we? Or is that just the military being heterophobic?

So why should we encourage or allow homosexuals to do the same?

It seems to me that the military is just being consistant. They don’t make people shower, get changed or use the toilet in front of people who would be sexually attracted to them,

That is a great, fair and just policy to have, and yes, other nations should emulate it.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

But we don’t ask them to get changed side by side do we? Or is that just the military being heterophobic?

So why should we encourage or allow homosexuals to do the same?

It seems to me that the military is just being consistant. They don’t make people shower, get changed or use the toilet in front of people who would be sexually attracted to them,

That is a great, fair and just policy to have, and yes, other nations should emulate it.

Very good points.

 

[lynx]

Part 1

I am not anti-gay.

Ok, i’ll admit that there a lot of misunderstandings when it comes to me interpreting things.

I don’t want to have to accept their culture or educate my children that it is an acceptable life style, because according to my beliefs it is not. Do I hate gays NO, do I pray for them YES,

I’ll agree with this, you don’t have to accept anything. I can tell you the sky is green 'til i’m green in the face but you can accept that the sky is blue. All I ask is that you tolerate, that is to understand my position and live with it along side yours, that I think the sky is green. Tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing IMO.

do I want to associate with them with my children NO, Do I work well with them YES. I just don’t believe that it is acceptable to offer up the beliefs of the majority to not only appease the minority but force the majority to live the lie that it is ok. We must allow for equal opportunity in the work place. Not everywhere else, but this policy would run deep into the military family support system and it is already stressed due to deployments.

See this is where I draw the line. Lets assume we were talking about blacks in the military. How horrible would this quote sound? I’m not saying you’re a bad guy, i’m just trying to tweak your thinking a little.

I do not hate Gays in the military. I think that gays should be allowed to serve, just not openly as it forces their lifestyle onto my family. I NEVER said we should remove them. I LIKE and APPRECIATE the current policy.

What does it matter whether or not they are openly gay or not? Just because the military might enforce gay tolerance does not mean that it supports a gay life style. I would think, that in a church setting in the military, if a priest were to denounce homosexual behavior as sinful then that is his business in that church area. However, if he were to do the same in a cafeteria whilst standing on a table shouting at the top of his lungs, then there are problems.

You have not lived in close quarters I have and we had a gay person in my berthing compartment. He was an extremely nice person and VERY competent. I would serve with him again. That being said although I was uncomfortable at times I can accept being a little uncomfortable in the showers for his service to the country, what I cannot accept is that my family has to accept his life style. I don’t want to force this on my kids.

When I was in high school, I was forced to room with two gay guys, it was 4 people to a 2 bedroom while on school trips. So, at times I had the opportunity to share a bed with one of them, and every so often when it was his turn for the floor I would find him pretty happily in my bed the next morning or during the middle of the night. Was it uncomfortable? Oh yeah, and it didn’t help that he was a smart ***. He would regularly make jokes like, “If you feel someone rubbing your feet don’t worry it’s just me.” The usual response was something around the lines of, “if you happen to wake up missing an eye don’t worry, it wasn’t me.” Tensions were high the first night I tell ya, but while he was an A-hole, he understood that his being openly gay was uncomfortable which was the reason for his levity and less the A-hole-ishness. I still wish he had let me have the bed on my nights though From my experiences, the less of a deal you make the less of a deal it is.

I can understand you not wanting you children to accept it, so don’t let them. Tell them that homosexual acts are sinful if you like. Let them know that a first class trip to hell is waiting for them if they engage in such acts. But, please don’t limit the expression of a person who is gay to live their life openly if every other straight person can.

You can take you logic to all kinds of perversions, because our country allows certain things does not mean other cultures do. This is a Pandora’s box that is just best left the way it is. By changing this policy we will be hurting families and for that it makes me say that it cannot be good.

There are a lot of perversions that can make this tricky. I would say, if your perversion doesn’t hurt another living thing physically and, it is generally tolerated by society or legally tolerated, then it is very likely that the perversion in question should be tolerated in the means by which society or the law tolerates it already. That being said, if gays are allowed to work, pay taxes, and die for the speech of others then they should have the right to be openly gay without reprimand from government regulated institutions. Seems only fair no?

 

[lynx]

Part 2

I would finally say that typically we have pretty conservative males that join the services and usually liberal women. I wish we had more liberal men and conservative women, but it just does not work out that way. I guess it is because most liberal men do not find military service attractive and neither do most conservative women. That being said we have a pool of humanity to draw from for the defense of this country. I truly respect any gay service member that serves and sacrifice their ability to have an open relationship when they come into the service. This sacrifice they make is very similar to that of ALL service members with regards to freedom of speech, but even closer to the sacrifice that Priest make through celibacy.

If only they didn’t need to sacrifice. Why should their road be harder for something out of their control?

In any event I apologize if any of my earlier posts came off as if I hate Gay people as I do not. I just think that this change in policy is not only bad for the Navy but also bad for the Navy families

You certainly don’t need to apologize to me for anything. Whether or not you hate or don’t hate, find something sinful or not sinful, doesn’t generally affect me nor does it affect the truth of any of your statements. But, I deeply appreciate the sentiment It takes big men to say they’re sorry for anything

 

[Zatzat]

But we don’t ask them to get changed side by side do we? Or is that just the military being heterophobic?

So why should we encourage or allow homosexuals to do the same?

It seems to me that the military is just being consistant. They don’t make people shower, get changed or use the toilet in front of people who would be sexually attracted to them,

That is a great, fair and just policy to have, and yes, other nations should emulate it.

Homosexuals are banned from serving in the U.S, military because someone might get turned on in the shower?

Funny how that isn’t an issue in Canada.

 

[lynx]

I’m stating as a fact that showiering with physically fit women is what I would have thought as an 18 year old male. Are you honestly trying to pretend that 18 year old gay males have no sex drive at all? Because that’s the only way they can’t be thinking about it.

As a fact, I would still prefer to shower with hot women, but it wouldn’t be my reason for joining the military. A lot of my friends, and even my girlfriend, joined the army because they were either financially poor or didn’t know what to do in life. One might have gone for more patriotic reasons but I’m not sure.

I’ve been in the military ( Army Major, Armor)

We don’t ask women to shower with men, and it doesn’t matter what their cup size is. The reason is for modesty.

So don’t tell me that the military doesn’t make accomodations for those who would prefer to not shower with someone who would be attracted to them sexually.

As per the latter portion of my statement you quoted, I am telling you we should not make special accommodations for people who feel uncomfortable. If the military deems fit to partition people due to modesty based on sexual attraction, then fine. They should then at the very least let gays have their own shower time, as a matter of modesty. Certainly this “modesty” shouldn’t stop them from serving in the military or expressing their sexuality any more than a straight officer right?

 

[CMatt25]

Homosexuals are banned from serving in the U.S, military because someone might get turned on in the shower?

Funny how that isn’t an issue in Canada.

Well maybe those who hold that view never took a PE class or participated in sports of any kind. And I would imagine someone forced to remain suffocating in the closet can still be attracted to someone. So why not let them breathe. Heck the same ppl complaining about the issue have probably found someone attractive walking down the street but it doesn’t mean they acted upon their feelings.

 

[ManOnFire]

Imagine this: I’m a straight man in the public showers in college, military, etc. But, I take a magic pill so I can go shower with the women, but the magic pill makes them believe I’m a woman, so they are not alerted to my slyness and they see nothing wrong with me being there. He He He. Now, I go and shower with them, yet, they suspect nothing. It’s like a kinky taboo. I feel like I have super hero powers. It’s almost like I’m smarter than them. It’s like free entertainment for me. Every day, I get a fresh show. Except now, “they” are about to pass a law so I don’t have to take that dang magic pill anymore. I can just take a look anytime I want. That’s how I imagine it to feel for a gay man in the public shower room.

Should we only have openly gay service if the straight men are allowed to shower with the women? That would be attraction equality, would it not? What’s to stop a gay man from staring at a straight man in the shower once the ban is lifted? Do we need to declare a new crime: visual rape? Why should jollies be legislated for some and not others? When will this heterosexual oppression end? This will be a mockery. Time to invest in a shower stall company. It’s long overdue for all public and military showers.

 

[CMatt25]

I’ll agree with this, you don’t have to accept anything. I can tell you the sky is green 'til i’m green in the face but you can accept that the sky is blue. All I ask is that you tolerate, that is to understand my position and live with it along side yours, that I think the sky is green. Tolerance and acceptance are not the same thing IMO.

Lynx, well you can but you’re not the Pope. Now if the Pope announced tomorrow the sky was green… whole different story.

 

[Redratfish]

As the question stands, should gays be in the military, my answer is yes. Gays have been in the military since its formation, and since 1/4 of the country doesn’t meet the physical requirements for military service, I think we should take who we can get.

 

[CMatt25]

As the question stands, should gays be in the military, my answer is yes. Gays have been in the military since its formation, and since 1/4 of the country doesn’t meet the physical requirements for military service, I think we should take who we can get.

I’m in that 1/4 and we should praise all our men and women in the military, straight, gay, lesban, bi, whatever. Thank you all for your service. God bless you all.

 

[lynx]

Lynx, well you can but you’re not the Pope. Now if the Pope announced tomorrow the sky was green… whole different story.

Jeez, why you gotta be puttin’ me down man; now i’m really feelin’ green, and it ain’t easy