Gays In The Military

[sedonaman]

Very funny. Prior to the 1970s, when this country was flooded with Adult Bookstores and topless bars, people got along much better, and more normally.

Are you old enough to remember the '40s and '50s?

“WE” had nothing to do with it. The media allowed itself to become more and more corrupt.

I am also told that activity that is rewarded is likely to be repeated. Enough of “WE” rewarded that corruption.

 

[gdabreo]

We do not throw away bthe Old Testament because it tells the story of our relationship with our God. A God who never gave up on us. A God who finally sent his Only Begotten Son to come and live among us and to die for us to convince us of his unconditional love. We have the Gospels… what more do we want. Don’t get hung up on the Old Testament. Even Paul called it a scaffolding… something temporary.

Taking sexual advantage of anyone is wrong. Having sex for self-pleasure is wrong. It doesn’t matter who one is having sex with. Can you love anyone as Jesus Christ would have loved him or her and have hedonistic sex with that person just because it feels good to you?

 

[edwest2]

Are you old enough to remember the '40s and '50s?

I am also told that activity that is rewarded is likely to be repeated. Enough of “WE” rewarded that corruption.

I remember enough of the 1950s to know that a lot of what is ‘celebrated’ today by the media was forbidden then. In fact, I read on another forum, a lament from a poster who wished that porn could be ‘dirty’ again. This took 40 years to happen and it was started not by Catholics, but a few lawyers, judges and organized crime.

No, the whole corruption began in 1968. Pope Paul VI warned about the consequences of Artificial Contraception, and the manufacturers of The Pill could not afford to lose sales from Catholic women listening to the Pope.

Send in the Hippies, legalize porn, legalize topless bars, and publish Swinger magazines advertising fornication and adultery. Catholic initiatives? I don’t think so. And condemn any protests from Christians as infringements on the pornographers’ First Amendment Rights and Freedom of Expression. A recent example is the quiet relabeling of stripper to Exotic Dancer.

Catholics were slowly, gradually poisoned over a 40 year period. We protested but The Law was supposedly on the side of those pushing immorality, the objectification of women and the destruction of the family.

God bless,
Ed

 

[paulG3vcn]

There is a problem with this. If heterosexual priests were allowed to marry, then the homosexual priests would be demanding they be allowed to marry other homosexuals, forcing the Church to recognize homosexual “marriage”. Do you think this will happen in view of the Church’s stated position that homosexual “marriage” is an intrinsic evil?

Of course the church would not permit same sex marriage. I personally see nothing wrong with having married priests or married nuns. However, I believe that potential clerics should be given the opportunity to join orders that do not permit married people and remain celibate as a gift to God.

Dominus vobiscum

paul

 

[gjozwiak]

Being gay or straight, male or female is not a criteria for serving in the military. All people should be allowed and obilgated to serve. What is important is to know whether your gun has a light or heavy trigger pull and to be able to excert that force at the proper time. The typical range is from about 2 pounds to over 4 pounds of pressure.

Hold the gun in the shooting position pointed toward the target. Remember to breathe and hold before the shot. For precision shooting, the squeeze is like a gentle, steady caress of the trigger.

Increase the pressure of your pull gradually as the trigger moves backward. You won’t be able to predict the precise point where the trigger releases the firing pin to shoot. This instant is always a small surprise.

Breathe, relax, aim, slack, squeeze.

Release the trigger after the gun fires to allow it to return to its original position for the next shot.

For rapid shooting slap the trigger. The slap is just a quicker squeeze, not a jerk. It’s the same sequence as the precision shot, with a steady squeeze until the surprise of the shot and the release back to the starting position.

What is most important is to be able to do all that while firing at another human down range while carrying 40 plus pounds on your back with no rest after humping 25 plus miles all while that human is firing back at you.

I served in the Infantry, both Army and Marines, for 17 years. I served with men and women, gay and straight. I never ever worried about anyone trying to hold my hot soapy hand in the shower. All that mattered is that they could do their job and exert the proper trigger pull at the right time.

 

[bmadamsberry]

We do not throw away bthe Old Testament because it tells the story of our relationship with our God. A God who never gave up on us. A God who finally sent his Only Begotten Son to come and live among us and to die for us to convince us of his unconditional love. We have the Gospels… what more do we want. Don’t get hung up on the Old Testament. Even Paul called it a scaffolding… something temporary.

Taking sexual advantage of anyone is wrong. Having sex for self-pleasure is wrong. It doesn’t matter who one is having sex with. Can you love anyone as Jesus Christ would have loved him or her and have hedonistic sex with that person just because it feels good to you?

Your dismissiveness of the Old Testament is awkward, especially because the writers of the New Testament held it in such high regard (anytime they speak of Scripture and its benefits, they are refering to the Old Testament, because the New Testamenth had yet to be compiled or considered Scripture. In fact, only Peter ever speaks of the importance of “some of Paul’s letters”).
And no, you cannot have hedonistic sex with someone just because it feels good to you. That is what lust is, and even married couples sin if they have sex in lust (in other words, treating someone as a means to an end instead of an end in itself).
Christ loved people, and forgave them, but he also told them to go and sin no more.

 

[ERose]

Hello,

I haven’t posted a comment for some time. However, I am not homosexual (I don’t like the term Gay, it’s silly and is such a nice word miss- used). I served for a number of years in the Royal Navy when homosexuality was an offence under the Naval Discipline Act. As a result any serving homosexuals were “undercover”.
I came across very few instances of homosexuality and when discovered were dealt with by MI5 and the individuals were dismissed from the service. This was during the cold war when homosexuals were considered to be a security risk due to possible blackmail. The individual that I served with was a great guy, conciencious, loyal, ambitious, patriotic, however, he was found in a compromising situation ashore and subsequently dismissed the service.

I have spoken with a homosexual recently and he told me that he knew of two homosexuals who served on the same ship during this era and were very careful not to acknowledge each other during their time onboard. They would meet when appropriate ashore in a clandestine manner and do their thing.
This is very sad, especially as these guys were in a serious relationship and afraid of the results of their relationship becoming known.
Times have moved on, now I believe the attitude is don’t ask, don’t tell.
As a catholic I cannot condemn and know that we have a God father of love and forgiveness, he created homosexuals and lesbians, it is for us to accept and encourage them to behave in a manner acceptable to “normal society.” Please don’t enter into a discussion about sexual normality.One has to realise that procreation only occurs in one way!
Most catholic priest that I have met are homosexual. Celibacy has caused this. It is unatural for a male to want to be celibate, however, if a person has reached a degree of spirituality where he/she feels that it is for them to give their human life to one in the church then that must be respected.
Apparently, celibacy does not result in paedophilia but there is a link with homosexuality.
So we are left with a situaltion where currently most RC priests are homosexual and married priests are prohibited by the church (unless you are a married anglican convert).
The conclusion I come to is that the church will have to allow married priests to prevent further scandal (they hate the word scandal!)

Well that has given you a lot to think about!

Dominus vobiscum

paul.

I have never met a homosexual priest. How did you know he was homosexual? Did he tell you are did you just assume that he was?

You need proof if you are going to assert that being celibate leads to homosexuality. You can’t make an assumption like that and walk away.

Also God does not creat homosexuals and lesbians. Those who claim to be homosexual choose that lifestyle. There is not significant proof that there is a “homosexuality” gene, but the propaganda machine sure has made alot of uninfomed people believe that there is one.

God does love his creatures no matter who they are but he hate the sins and iniquities that we commit. There will be no unrepentant homosexuals in heaven.

 

[ERose]

But what would Jesus have done?
Who cares about Leviticus? We have a New Commandant, remember?
Leviticus is old testament. It’s called old because of the new testament… and the new commandant.
Jesus loved the guy who hammered the nail into his right hand, do you think he would condemn anyone for any human frailty.
Isn’t promiscuity the bad thing here? Isn’t over emphasizing sex the bad thing here?
Sex shouldl be reserved for two things and those things only.
First to share the most intimate part of yourself with a life partner who you love enough to give your life to save and to procreate.
Unfortunately we sexualize everything. High schools proms are sexualized. Clothing is sexualized. Kids are taught about sex at younger and younger ages. They are not allowed to be innocent kids any more.
It seems as though Americans cannot get sex of their minds…

I agree with you on this. The point is sex is only appropiate between a husband and a wife. Any other type of sexual intercourse is a mortal sin whether it is homo or hetero or beastality or whatever. I think that all fornication has been underemphasized as a mortal sin. It seems that most people, even those of us who claim to be Christian, have accepted fornication and that is in my opinion sad.

 

[ERose]

We do not throw away bthe Old Testament because it tells the story of our relationship with our God. A God who never gave up on us. A God who finally sent his Only Begotten Son to come and live among us and to die for us to convince us of his unconditional love. We have the Gospels… what more do we want. Don’t get hung up on the Old Testament. Even Paul called it a scaffolding… something temporary.

Taking sexual advantage of anyone is wrong. Having sex for self-pleasure is wrong. It doesn’t matter who one is having sex with. Can you love anyone as Jesus Christ would have loved him or her and have hedonistic sex with that person just because it feels good to you?

What do you mean don’t get hung up on the Old Testament? You can’t have the New Testament without the Old. You can’t even begin to understand the New Testament without look back at the Old. the Old is the foundation of the New and you cannot and should not ever separate the two. That is a dangerous proposition and I highly recommend you don’t fall in that fallacy.

 

[verum_peto_1]

Current military policy in the US is that gays are allowed to serve, but they are not allowed to be “out” about their sexuality.

I think this poll would be more fair in its wording if it posed the question: Should current policy be changed to disallow gays from serving in the military?

This could create a problem with retirement benefits, etc for existing service members. Also, you could say goodbye to a large number of medical personnel. It is well knows that the medical and language translation personnel have a very high percentage of gay people.

 

[sedonaman]

At least one person has made the comment that you can’t tell who is by looking. Some advocating for the elimination of DADT have indicated that sexual preference has nothing to do with job performance. If this is true, then why do homosexuals need to know who else is one of them any more than someone who likes movies would need to know my preference for old movies? There is only one reason I can think of, and I said it earlier: to locate more sex partners.

 

[paulG3vcn]

Christ said I have not come to change the law (O.T.) but to fulfill it. The old testament compliments the new and Jesus taught us how to lead our lives at that period in our history.
The law and the church evolve over time in the light of experience, revelation, discernment,cultural changes in society etc. However, the church does, and must retain the basic tennants of Christianity and not change because something is the flavour of the month.

A difficult pill to swallow but nobody said that life was going to be easy, either inside or outside the church.

The church’s teaching on homosexuality is quite clear and unambiguous.

Dominus vobiscum

paul

 

[verum_peto_1]

At least one person has made the comment that you can’t tell who is by looking. Some advocating for the elimination of DADT have indicated that sexual preference has nothing to do with job performance. If this is true, then why do homosexuals need to know who else is one of them any more than someone who likes movies would need to know my preference for old movies? There is only one reason I can think of, and I said it earlier: to locate more sex partners.

The answer is simple. It is a civil rights issue, to be able to serve openly. The desire, as I understand it, is not to know who else is gay, it is to be able to serve in the military and not to have to be dishonest or to hide one’s identity. There is a big difference.

On my second deployment, or medic did not hide his sexuality. He was gay, and he did not particularly care who knew it. It was his third time out, and I don’t think he really cared if he was discharged.

Nobody cared. He did a good job. If anyone did care, he kept it to himself, as far as I knew.

When I first moved to San Diego, it was in a condo near a large Naval medical center. I realized after living in the building for a short while that the only heterosexuals in the building were myself, and the couple two doors away. The entire building was gay, and everyone except the couple two doors away was gay. The rank ranged from a Marine Corps colonel (btn commander); an Air Force captain next door (he flew an F-18); a Navy commander (dermatologist); a Navy petty officer corpsman; a Navy Lt Commander (aircraft carrier ship’s surgeon), etc…

I have no doubt that all of these people did their jobs well.

 

[verum_peto_1]

I meant to say that the entire building was occupied by military personnel.

 

[BobObob]

I just wanted to throw in some quick comments.

I have never met a homosexual priest…

trosch.org/ant/gay_priests.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholic_priests

You need proof if you are going to assert that being celibate leads to homosexuality. You can’t make an assumption like that and walk away.

There’s mo evidence that celibacy leads to homosexuality.

There may be many homosexual priests because for some guys who are Catholic who experience same-sex attraction, they view the priesthood a good alternative to being single (since for them matrimony is out of the question). Some others might view the priesthood as a cover!

 

[sedonaman]

The answer is simple. It is a civil rights issue, to be able to serve openly. …

As I said before, this wouldn’t be an issue if there was a draft. No one is that eager to “serve”. I agree it is simple, but not what you claim. The real issue is explained in this article:

Finally, “Straight Talk” From the Homosexual Agenda
by Austin Nimocks
Oct. 20, 2008

We all love and appreciate honesty, and it’s finally coming from the most unlikely of sources—the homosexual agenda. No matter what side of the issues of homosexual behavior you may find yourself supporting, a standing ovation is appropriate.

John Corvino, I salute you.

You see, back in August, my jaw hit the floor when I read a column 365gay.com/features/082908-corvino Corvino wrote that was breathtakingly honest. You see, for many years, the homosexual agenda’s intentions, goals, and beliefs have been shrouded in smokescreens of “equality,” “benefits,” and “fairness.” Yet Corvino provided a breath of fresh air, telling us what those who engage in homosexual behavior really want: moral approval.

Of course, many of us have known this all along, but it’s nice to finally hear about it from the other side. This groundbreaking concession now provides an opportunity for an honest public discourse on what homosexual advocates are really after. They want your heart and soul. It’s not enough to just be tolerant. … townhall.com/columnists/AustinNimocks/2008/10/20/finally,_straight_talk_from_the_homosexual_agenda

 

[verum_peto_1]

Gay people are already in the military. They are in the Church. They are in every family, and in every profession. There is no reason that they should be discriminated against in employment, or in other civil rights issues. It is as simple as that.

This is purely anecdotal, but based on my experience in the Marines, gays are of a higher percentage in the military than in many civilian jobs. This stands to reason if you think about it.

Since there are no signs that gay people act unprofessionally now, there is little reason to think that would change simply by allowing them to be open about their sexuality, in my opinion.

The sexual misconduct and sexual harrassment charges are almost exclusively heterosexual.

 

[sedonaman]

Gay people are already in the military. They are in the Church. They are in every family, and in every profession. There is no reason that they should be discriminated against in employment, or in other civil rights issues. It is as simple as that.

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as that. There is no civil right to be in the military. The homosexual movement is part of the general liberal movement, and as such it is the current cause célèbre of liberal academia. Liberals were burning their draft cards in the ‘60s, so how is it that what is claimed to be a right now was resisted so vociferously then, and by the same people, i.e., liberals?

Recall that when they started their movement over 40 years ago, homosexuals said all they wanted was “to be left alone.” Therefore, when we contrast that desire then with their demands today “connect the dots,” so to speak], and extrapolate only a little, we could rightfully conclude that “being left alone” was not their only desire; and their current demands, e.g., legal recognition of homosexual “marriage”, military “service”, will not be the last of their demands, for madness, once unleashed, knows no bounds. Their ultimate goal, as we’ve seen them state, is total validation and acceptance. In other words, they want our hearts and souls. Whatever their rights are, my conscience is not one of them.

The really sad part is that even if they do reach their goal, it will be only illusory; validation will get only lip service, and they will be just as miserable as they are now, but will have destroyed society in the process.

This is purely anecdotal, but based on my experience in the Marines, gays are of a higher percentage in the military than in many civilian jobs. This stands to reason if you think about it.

I have no evidence to refute that, but don’t necessarily accept it either. When I was in the military, a high percentage of the members of female units were lesbians. As I stated, they join for a ready supply of new sex partners.

Since there are no signs that gay people act unprofessionally now, there is little reason to think that would change simply by allowing them to be open about their sexuality, in my opinion.

I think there is great reason. Remember they said all they wanted was “to be left alone.” They were taken at their word, and the next thing we knew, “Heather had two mommies.” Is it “professional” to abuse your position of authority to force your beliefs on children, no less? Besides, if this openness is so important and inconsequential [think about that one], why does it matter any more than my being open about a preference for old movies?

The sexual misconduct and sexual harrassment charges are almost exclusively heterosexual.

So what? Sounds to me like a round-about way of saying homosexuals are a very small percentage of the population. But if you want to play statistical games, see narth.com/docs/gayteens.html.

 

[JoeNY]

THIS WEBSITE AND FORUM WAS CREATED FOR CATHOLICS AND OTHERS WHO WANT TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND THE ONE TRUE FAITH. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT HOMOSEXUALITY BEHAVIOR IS AN “INTRINSIC EVIL”. GOOD BELIEVING CATHOLICS CANNOT ENGAGE IN, SUPPORT OR PROMOTE THIS MORTAL SIN, AND THAT INCLUDES SUPPORTING AN OPEN GAY POLICY IN THE MILITARY. THIS DEBATE ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS AND THE SECULAR LAW IS IRRELEVANT IN A DISCUSSION ABOUT CATHOLIC TEACHINGS. LET’S STOP BEATING THIS DEAD HORSE.

AND FOR THOSE ATHEISTS, HOMOSEXUALS AND ANTI-CATHOLICS WHO ARE USING THIS FORUM TO TRY TO DISCREDIT THE CHURCH IN ORDER TO PUSH YOUR AGENDA, YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME. IT IS AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY TO THINK YOU CAN DEFEAT CHRIST’S CHURCH: “…AND THE GATES OF HELL WILL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.” (Matthew 16:18)

 

[edwest2]

There are already plans in place for what happens Beyond Gay Marriage:

firstthings.com/onthesquare/2006/08/robert-george-beyond-gay-marri

The Polys are waiting for their rights, followed by the Zoos (term for bestiality). You’ll note one of the signers of the document referenced in the article is Feminist Icon, Gloria Steinem.

God bless,
Ed