Gen. 3:15 Whose heel?

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edjco

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I’m really confused about this one:

NAB: "…while you strike at his heel.

DR: “and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

I even looked in the KJV:

KJV: “…and thou shall bruise his heel.”

:confused:

Can anyone help me with that please?

Thanks!
 
edjco said:
I’m really confused about this one:

NAB: "…while you strike at his heel.

DR: “and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

I even looked in the KJV:

KJV: “…and thou shall bruise his heel.”

:confused:

Can anyone help me with that please?

Thanks!
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The passage was originally written in Hebrew, and the Hebrew text is neuter, without specifying ‘he’ or ‘she.’ It is up to the translator to decide the meaning, or to translate it, “It shall bruise thy head.”

Translations that say “she” do so on the grounds that the woman is being spoken to and she is the main subject of the prophecy. Translations that say “he” do so on the grounds that is is a prophecy of Jesus, and Jesus was a ‘he.’

I hope that helps.
God bless!
 
It certainly does, and God bless you right back!

That really makes sense, and I knew someone here would have the answer.

Thanks again.

Ed
 
edjco said:
I’m really confused about this one:

NAB: "…while you strike at his heel.

DR: “and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.”

I even looked in the KJV:

KJV: “…and thou shall bruise his heel.”

:confused:

Can anyone help me with that please?

Thanks!
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He will pierce thy head, when His cross pierces the ground at “SKULL PLACE,” get it?

While you pierce His heel, with the nails into His “FEET,” get it?
 
Unwanted said:
Just curious as to how you would respond to the Hebrew translation of this passage…

messiahtruth.com/gen315.html
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I enjoyed this exegesis, and I might even encourage others to read it too. His argument is basically this: that Gen. 3:15 refers to all of humanity as descendants of Adam and Eve, that ALL of us are enemies of snakes because they are pests – it is good that the author of that exegesis does not deny that the snake is being used there as a metaphor for the devil, that is very important.

I think Christian apologists would accept his exegesis as sound. Yes, it DOES mean that all humanity are enemies of snake-pests, and it uses this as a metaphor for our being enemies of the devil personally. Christian apologists would make one further application: that this enmity will be gloriously fulfilled in the Messiah’s final defeat of the devil. The Jewish man does not exactly deny this either; he says that it has application to the Messiah, but where he says it is only a loose application as the Messiah will be another member of all the humanity referred to, Christians would say it has its particular and most complete fulfillment in him.

God bless!
 
The original Hebrew text can read as “She”, “He”, “They” or “It”.

Though it is interesting to note that reading the passage in context seems grammatically logical to use the interpretation used by St. Jerome in the 4th Century. After all, God put enmity between the serpent and the Woman and her seed against the serpent’s seed.

Below is how the Jewish Torah online translates the text of Genesis 3:15

Bereshit - Genesis Chapter 3
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;** they***** shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.’
 
Anybody ever notice that a lot of statues of Mary have her stepping on what? A serpent.

Now does Genesis 3:15 make sense?
 
Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
 
Big_Dummy said:
Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
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As Big Dummy points out, the New Testament seems to support the interpretation that enmity with the snake is something shared collectively.

This does not leave out a particular application to the Messiah and His Mother, though, which also goes back to the earliest authorities, as the Fathers and even St. Paul testifies in other passages.
 
Until I met fundamentalists online, I had never in all my churches/sermons etc heard a connection made between Eve’s “seed” and Jesus. I don’t buy it, but I acknowledge the claim being made.
 
Gen 3:15 (NAB) I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."
Gen 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her** seed**;** it** shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I’ve highlighted ‘seed’ and ‘it’ in the KJV because this is the most literal. The NAB is loose. I don’t think anyone would disagree with this.

‘She’ instead of ‘it’ is wrong. If this is the woman, then the comment about ‘her seed’ is dropped into this verse for no reason. A seed is an ‘it’, not a ‘her’ or a ‘he’, hence the use of the word ‘it’. If someone wants to use ‘he’ (e.g. NAB), that’s fine.

Eve herself didn’t bruise the serpent’s head, and nothing here implies Mary. It’s the seed of both Eve and Mary that did the bruising. Jesus bruised (or crushed, or struck) the Serpent’s head.

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul says the ‘seed’ is Christ. Paul is speaking of the promises made to Abraham (Gal 3:16), but the same logic works with Gen 3:15.

Whose heel is bruised, at the very end of the verse? This is the reciprocal of ‘it will bruise your head’. Given that "it’ is Jesus, if a pronoun is used here, it should be “his”.

This is a wonderful verse because it tells us that from the very moment of God’s judgement against Adam and Eve that he had a plan of redemption for man through Christ (Eve’s seed).
 
Steel_Pinwheel said:
Gen 3:15 (NAB) I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."
Gen 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her** seed**;** it** shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I’ve highlighted ‘seed’ and ‘it’ in the KJV because this is the most literal. The NAB is loose. I don’t think anyone would disagree with this.

‘She’ instead of ‘it’ is wrong. If this is the woman, then the comment about ‘her seed’ is dropped into this verse for no reason. A seed is an ‘it’, not a ‘her’ or a ‘he’, hence the use of the word ‘it’. If someone wants to use ‘he’ (e.g. NAB), that’s fine.

Eve herself didn’t bruise the serpent’s head, and nothing here implies Mary. It’s the seed of both Eve and Mary that did the bruising. Jesus bruised (or crushed, or struck) the Serpent’s head.

In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul says the ‘seed’ is Christ. Paul is speaking of the promises made to Abraham (Gal 3:16), but the same logic works with Gen 3:15.

Whose heel is bruised, at the very end of the verse? This is the reciprocal of ‘it will bruise your head’. Given that "it’ is Jesus, if a pronoun is used here, it should be “his”.

This is a wonderful verse because it tells us that from the very moment of God’s judgement against Adam and Eve that he had a plan of redemption for man through Christ (Eve’s seed).
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Were the Jews teaching this?
 
larkin31 said:
Were the Jews teaching this?
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Here’s some quotes from the ancient Jewish Targums that interpret this passage for the Messiah – all except the first mention Him specifically, albeit with the collective interpretation coming first; and the first one is only probably meant as collective, it also COULD refer specifically to the Messiah but isn’t clear on that point:

Targum Onkelos: “And enmity I will put between you and the woman, and between your son and her son. He shall be recalling what you did to him in the beginning; and you shall be observing him in the end.”

Targum Pseudo-Jonathan: “And I will place enmity between you and the woman, and between the offspring of your sons and the offspring of her sons. And it will happen: when the sons of the woman will observe the precepts of the Torah, they will aim to strike you on the head; and when they will forsake the precepts of the Torah, you will aim to bite them in the heel. But for them there will be a remedy; whereas for you there will be no remedy. And they will be ready to make a crushing with the heel in the days of King Messiah.”

Fragmentary Targum: “And it shall be: when the sons of the woman observe the Torah and fulfill the commandments, they will aim to strike you on the head and kill you; and when the sons of the woman will forsake the precepts of the Torah and will not keep the commandments, you will aim to bite them in their heel and harm them. However there will be a remedy for the sons of the woman, but for you, O serpent, there will be no remedy. Still, behold, they will appease one another in the final end of days, in the days of the King Messiah.”

Targum Neofiti: “And I will put enmities between you and the woman, and between your sons and her sons. And it will happen: when her sons keep the Law and put into practice the commandments, they will aim at you and smite you on the head and kill you; but when they forsake the commandments of the Law, you will aim at and wound him on his heel and make him ill. For her son, however, there will be a remedy, but for you, serpent, there will be no remedy. They will make peace in the future in the day of King Messiah.”

All taken from: cfpeople.org/Books/Mary/maryp3.htm
 
Doesn’t the phrase “… I will put enmity … between your seed and her seed…” stand out among Jewish literature?

I seem to recall someone saying that, since “the seed” is tracked through the man, it was odd of anyone being of “her seed”. What do the early writings say of this?
 
dmar198 said:
Here’s some quotes from the ancient Jewish Targums that interpret this passage for the Messiah – all except the first mention Him specifically, albeit with the collective interpretation coming first; and the first one is only probably meant as collective, it also COULD refer specifically to the Messiah but isn’t clear on that point:

Targum Onkelos: “And enmity I will put between you and the woman, and between your son and her son. He shall be recalling what you did to him in the beginning; and you shall be observing him in the end.”

Targum Pseudo-Jonathan: “And I will place enmity between you and the woman, and between the offspring of your sons and the offspring of her sons. And it will happen: when the sons of the woman will observe the precepts of the Torah, they will aim to strike you on the head; and when they will forsake the precepts of the Torah, you will aim to bite them in the heel. But for them there will be a remedy; whereas for you there will be no remedy. And they will be ready to make a crushing with the heel in the days of King Messiah.”

Fragmentary Targum: “And it shall be: when the sons of the woman observe the Torah and fulfill the commandments, they will aim to strike you on the head and kill you; and when the sons of the woman will forsake the precepts of the Torah and will not keep the commandments, you will aim to bite them in their heel and harm them. However there will be a remedy for the sons of the woman, but for you, O serpent, there will be no remedy. Still, behold, they will appease one another in the final end of days, in the days of the King Messiah.”

Targum Neofiti: “And I will put enmities between you and the woman, and between your sons and her sons. And it will happen: when her sons keep the Law and put into practice the commandments, they will aim at you and smite you on the head and kill you; but when they forsake the commandments of the Law, you will aim at and wound him on his heel and make him ill. For her son, however, there will be a remedy, but for you, serpent, there will be no remedy. They will make peace in the future in the day of King Messiah.”

All taken from: cfpeople.org/Books/Mary/maryp3.htm
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Thanks!

I see that this info is from a Christian “defense of the faith” site. I would also be interested in information from a Jewish site.
 
NotWorthy said:
Doesn’t the phrase “… I will put enmity … between your seed and her seed…” stand out among Jewish literature?

I seem to recall someone saying that, since “the seed” is tracked through the man, it was odd of anyone being of “her seed”. What do the early writings say of this?
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I do not know what early Jewish interpretations say about this; but I do know that it is not uncommon at all in Scripture for “the seed” to be traced through a woman. Do a word-search on “seed” in Scripture, or look it up in a concordance, and you’ll see what I mean. The easiest example after Gen. 3:15 is Gen. 4:25: "And Adam again knew his wife, and she bore a son, and called his name Seth, saying, ‘for God hath given me another seed instead of Abel.’ "

Women in the Bible frequently call their children their seed. So it cannot be proven from the use of “her seed” that this passage foresees the Virgin Birth, as has sometimes been argued. The Virgin Birth is prophesied in the Old Testament many times, but this is not one of those times.
 
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