Gender Changed Individual

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anrmenchaca47

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OK…I dont know how to approach this. I would like to think that I did a good job here but still I don’t know how to react.

My wife recently met up with a friend of hers whom she adores because he/she has been a very kind individual. Well, this person used to be a man and has made the change to being a woman. My children were introduced to this person and both my boys reacted the way I taught them. They viewed it as wrong and that is not what God likes.

Now…I have learned that we cannot and must not judge and that all we can do is pray for that individual and this is what I explained to my boys that even though as catholics we do not agree and condone their lifestyle, this does not mean we should hate or judge. We must also show charity.

Is this the right way to approach it?
 
As you may have heard before… Hate the sin <> Love the sinner.

That goes for any sin… Even if the sinner murdered your children… It’s a hard thing to do, but it’s what Christ did for us and we should do no less.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
OK…I dont know how to approach this. I would like to think that I did a good job here but still I don’t know how to react.

My wife recently met up with a friend of hers whom she adores because he/she has been a very kind individual. Well, this person used to be a man and has made the change to being a woman. My children were introduced to this person and both my boys reacted the way I taught them. They viewed it as wrong and that is not what God likes.

Now…I have learned that we cannot and must not judge and that all we can do is pray for that individual and this is what I explained to my boys that even though as catholics we do not agree and condone their lifestyle, this does not mean we should hate or judge. We must also show charity.

Is this the right way to approach it?
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The person who underwent disfigurement surgery did not change their gender. Let’s be clear on that point. Of course, we do not hate the sinner, but definitely the sin.
 
I don’t know that there’s really a “best” way to handle this and it has alot to do with the maturity level of your kids. I will say that verbs such as “love” and “hate” are ambiguous and mean different things to different people. You may want to be specific about your expectations of how to love them and what that entails and does not entail. This may be change as the kids get older and more mature. ( or less and less mature, and then hopefully more mature.)
 
This is a person who needs healing, and forgiveness.

And yes, we are not to judge.

Pax vobiscum+
 
Will_B said:
As you may have heard before… Hate the sin <> Love the sinner.
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This is the best possible answer. It may seem difficult but we do it every day with ourselves. Though I hate the sins I commit I still love myself. I have to remind myself to extend that same compassion to my brothers and sisters without condoning sinful acts.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
…we cannot and must not judge and that all we can do is pray for that individual…
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I disagree kinda. We should not judge the person’s state of grace, but we can judge their actions. In other words, we cannot state that they are going to hell, but we can say that their actions are sinful and could lead them to hell.
However, I am not sure gender surgery is sinful in itself. The sin is living a gay lifestyle.
 
ricofall said:
I disagree kinda. We should not judge the person’s state of grace, but we can judge their actions. In other words, we cannot state that they are going to hell, but we can say that their actions are sinful and could lead them to hell.
However, I am not sure gender surgery is sinful in itself. The sin is living a gay lifestyle.
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“Judge” is another one of those ambiguous buzzwords. People don’t agree on what it means to not judge someone. Some think it means to treat them as a worthy human being despite what they’ve done. Some people think it means you can treat them like dirt and even try to punish them for their sins yourself, as long as you don’t say they are going to hell. Some people think it means that you can’t say that what they are dong is wrong in the first place. I think one has to be very specific with young people.
 
ricofall said:
I disagree kinda. We should not judge the person’s state of grace, but we can judge their actions. In other words, we cannot state that they are going to hell, but we can say that their actions are sinful and could lead them to hell.
However, I am not sure gender surgery is sinful in itself. The sin is living a gay lifestyle.
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Gender “reassignment” surgery is gravely wrong. It could be mortally sinful if the other conditions (knowledge and consent) are met. The exception would be someone who is genetically one gender but physically another. That person could morally have surgery to repair the physical mismatch (for lack of a better term).
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
OK…I dont know how to approach this. I would like to think that I did a good job here but still I don’t know how to react.

My wife recently met up with a friend of hers whom she adores because he/she has been a very kind individual. Well, this person used to be a man and has made the change to being a woman. My children were introduced to this person and both my boys reacted the way I taught them. They viewed it as wrong and that is not what God likes.

Now…I have learned that we cannot and must not judge and that all we can do is pray for that individual and this is what I explained to my boys that even though as catholics we do not agree and condone their lifestyle, this does not mean we should hate or judge. We must also show charity.

Is this the right way to approach it?
Click to expand...
Exactly. There is no need to be rude, insulting or judgemental. This person has made their choice; you don’t have to approve but do have to respect them as a human being, made in the image and likeness of God.
 
2 questions:

1 - How did you know this person used to be a man? Does he/she (I also have trouble with the pronoun) announce, “Hi, I’m Jane - I used to be Jack?”

2 - The way you worded the reaction of your sons, “My children were introduced to this person and both my boys reacted the way I taught them” sounds odd to me. Were your sons polite? I hope they weren’t rude to the person - that gives a bad impression of the Church.

I have a young relative who is undergoing a sex change. I liked him just fine when he was male - I haven’t seen him since he became (in appearance) female. I might this summer - I hope I handle it the right way.
 
anrmenchaca47 said:
OK…I dont know how to approach this. I would like to think that I did a good job here but still I don’t know how to react.

My wife recently met up with a friend of hers whom she adores because he/she has been a very kind individual. Well, this person used to be a man and has made the change to being a woman. My children were introduced to this person and both my boys reacted the way I taught them. They viewed it as wrong and that is not what God likes.

Now…I have learned that we cannot and must not judge and that all we can do is pray for that individual and this is what I explained to my boys that even though as catholics we do not agree and condone their lifestyle, this does not mean we should hate or judge. We must also show charity.

Is this the right way to approach it?
Click to expand...
If I may, regardless of your feelings about her and the decisions she’s made in her life, you are right, you should not hate or judge. Treat her as you would want to be treated by someone else in a reverse circumstance: with respect, civility, kindness and hospitality. Simply because your faith tells you that she is wrong in making that decision is not an excuse to be impolite or discourteous. Since she is your wife’s friend, and as you said is very kind, I would even suggest making an honest attempt to get to know her; you two may even become friends yourselves. She likely won’t change your opinion, and you likely won’t change her’s - but just because you two are from different proverbial worlds doesn’t mean that you can’t try to understand one another.

PS - As far as pronouns go, it’s usually polite to refer to her as the gender she presents herself as until and unless she tells you she prefers to be called he (some do). If you approach it respectfully, you can always simply ask her what she prefers. Most transgendered individuals have that question asked of them all of the time, and as long as it’s a legitimate question (and not insulting), most that I’ve met usually are happy to answer. Four of my friends are transgendered as is one of my coworkers, so I know the “protocol”, if you will.

Cheers!
 
Can anyone tell me where it states that gender reassignment is sinful? I understand that it may be allowed when the persons mental state requires it in rare cases. Gender surgery is looked at as cosmetic surgery.
 
ricofall said:
Can anyone tell me where it states that gender reassignment is sinful? I understand that it may be allowed when the persons mental state requires it in rare cases. Gender surgery is looked at as cosmetic surgery.
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The surgery itself would fall under the sin of mutilation. There is the additional sin of fraud if the person holds him/herself out to be a different gender since the Church has stated that “sex-change” surgery does not really change a persons gender.

I suppose if a man had surgery to cosmetically look like a woman but still acted, dressed and held himself out to the public as a man, it might be “only cosmetic”. But that is such a rare occurrence, I doubt you will find Church teaching on it. The Church doesn’t issue documents to cover every crazy thing people try to do.
 
ricofall said:
Can anyone tell me where it states that gender reassignment is sinful? I understand that it may be allowed when the persons mental state requires it in rare cases. Gender surgery is looked at as cosmetic surgery.
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How is removing your testicles “cosmetic surgery”?
 
Corki said:
The exception would be someone who is genetically one gender but physically another. That person could morally have surgery to repair the physical mismatch (for lack of a better term).
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Is there such a thing? I’ve heard of XY females and XX males, but these people are the gender their bodies appear to be, not the gender their chromosomes suggest.

I know intersex conditions aren’t straightforward, but genotype and phenotype don’t usually “mismatch” unless there is a problem with the genes in the first place. 🤷
 
Kamaduck said:
Is there such a thing? I’ve heard of XY females and XX males, but these people are the gender their bodies appear to be, not the gender their chromosomes suggest.

I know intersex conditions aren’t straightforward, but genotype and phenotype don’t usually “mismatch” unless there is a problem with the genes in the first place. 🤷
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I believe they are rarer now than they used to be. Before DNA testing was the norm, a child whose physical appearance was ambiguous at birth would get surgery as an infant to assign one or the other gender - physically. When they grew up, they would sometimes find out (with DNA testing) that the doctors erred in choosing the correct gender. In modern times, I surely hope doctors would not do this without definitive DNA testing.
 
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