Gender in Heaven?

[Nanotwerp]

I apologize severely beforehand. I get the feelings my posts seem to come out as if I’m a madman.

Is it wrong to believe that gender would be useless in Heaven? It seems like to have perfect bodies, gender would be removed. Isn’t gender like two sides of a coin, incomplete without the other? I want to be fully complete in heaven, and I feel like the removal of gender period would be an effect of this. Gender wouldn’t have use, anyway, since we’d be ‘married’ to God. I don’t know why, but this really bothers me. I don’t want there to be an ontological ‘opposite’ of me, I want to be ‘neutral’. Is all of this heresy?

 

[Jon_S_1]

I apologize severely beforehand. I get the feelings my posts seem to come out as if I’m a madman.

Is it wrong to believe that gender would be useless in Heaven? It seems like to have perfect bodies, gender would be removed. Isn’t gender like two sides of a coin, incomplete without the other? I want to be fully complete in heaven, and I feel like the removal of gender period would be an effect of this. Gender wouldn’t have use, anyway, since we’d be ‘married’ to God. I don’t know why, but this really bothers me. I don’t want there to be an ontological ‘opposite’ of me, I want to be ‘neutral’. Is all of this heresy?

We believe in the resurrection of the body. So your flesh and bones complete with genitals and hormones will be raised up and resurrected in a glorified state like Christ’s was. You will then inherit the new heaven and the new earth.

So I imagine God has a plan for gender…he made gender and he made it very good and we should not think that we know better.

 

[Mary_Ellen]

I believe we will be male and female in heaven.

Mary’s body was assumed into Heaven with, I believe, her precious womb. Jesus’ resurrected and glorified body was recognized by his disciples as masculine. This self same body is the one which ascended into Heaven. If these two kept their gender why not us?

 

[Faxero]

I believe we will be male and female in heaven.

Mary’s body was assumed into Heaven with, I believe, her precious womb. Jesus’ resurrected and glorified body was recognized by his disciples as masculine. This self same body is the one which ascended into Heaven. If these two kept their gender why not us?

Deductive reasoning is refreshing indeed. :yup:

---

The virgin Mary, the mother of God, is declared by the Church to be The Queen of Heaven. This proves that there are gender differences in the afterlife.

However, even though we retain our genders, and consequently, our masculine and feminine qualities, in the afterlife, we will not express any sexuality that we had while on Earth, or at least not much of it.

There will also be no marriage. Christ confirms that there is an absence of marriage in Heaven. See Luke 20:27-40.

If there is no marriage in Heaven, then we may deduce, with reasonable certainty, that there will also be no expressing of sexuality in Heaven, (flirting or dating) for marriage is the end result of sexuality. Men will not thrust their chests at women in an attempt to show their protective competence, and women will not playfully flirt with men in an attempt to capture their hearts.

A transgender person, who is naturally a male, yet transforms himself into a female while on Earth, will transform back into a male when he enters the afterlife.

 

[GEddie]

Maleness and femaleness are not just about sexual impedimenta or behavior.

While alive, we “behave sexually” only a small fraction of the time; but we are always male or female, it is intrinsic to who we are. Even children, who have not yet “learnt” to behave sexually, and the old whose bodies no longer can sustain the behavior, are intrinsically male or female.

In addition to sexuality, the gender governs such attributes of the human being as the muscular strength, bodybuild, voice, and the fine-tuning of the senses. Even the mind is in its core affected by the gender (your mind is the mind of your body).

So in our pneumatikon soma, as we will be the same embodied human being we were in natural life, we will be male or female.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Rosemama]

I think we will still be male and female, though we will no longer engage in earthly sexuality as married couples do. It will be a union of minds, hearts and souls. We will be united intimately to everyone in heaven, not just one person like on earth.

 

[Ricky_C]

What about intersex people? I’m guessing they would be transformed into their original bodily state prior to any surgeries, but what are the implications of that?

 

[Elizium23]

The question of whether there will be gender in Heaven depends on what language(s) are spoken there.

I think you intended to ask whether there will be sexual complementarity in Heaven, rather than “gender”.

 

[GEddie]

What about intersex people? I’m guessing they would be transformed into their original bodily state prior to any surgeries, but what are the implications of that?

I would say that God never intended intersexuality, just as He never intended Siamese twins. Both are birth anomalies arising from the fallen, or corrupted, state of our biology.

The pneumatikon soma will correct both conditions. Just as Siamese twins will, in Life Everlasting, have distinct bodies, the way human life was designed; intersexuals will in their pneumatikon soma be male or female, the way we were designed.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Vico]

Maleness and femaleness are not just about sexual impedimenta or behavior.

While alive, we “behave sexually” only a small fraction of the time; but we are always male or female, it is intrinsic to who we are. Even children, who have not yet “learnt” to behave sexually, and the old whose bodies no longer can sustain the behavior, are intrinsically male or female.

In addition to sexuality, the gender governs such attributes of the human being as the muscular strength, bodybuild, voice, and the fine-tuning of the senses. Even the mind is in its core affected by the gender (your mind is the mind of your body).

So in our pneumatikon soma, as we will be the same embodied human being we were in natural life, we will be male or female.

ICXC NIKA.

The problem with determining sex biologically is that there is male, female, and intersex because the sex chromosomes are of more than two kinds, called aneuploidy. Also there is sometimes complete or partial insensitivity to testosterone. Therefore the phenotypical male sex presentation may be from XY, XX, and other combinations, and the phenotypical female sex presentation may be from XY, XX, and other combinations.

(For example: XX male is called de la Chapelle syndrome, XY female may be XY gonadal dysgenesis, and true hermaphrodites only have one kind of working gonadal tissue.)

 

[Cirdan_XII]

The problem with determining sex biologically is that there is male, female, and intersex because the sex chromosomes are of more than two kinds, called aneuploidy. Also there is sometimes complete or partial insensitivity to testosterone. Therefore the phenotypical male sex presentation may be from XY, XX, and other combinations, and the phenotypical female sex presentation may be from XY, XX, and other combinations.

(For example: XX male is called de la Chapelle syndrome, XY female may be XY gonadal dysgenesis, and true hermaphrodites only have one kind of working gonadal tissue.)

I believe gender lies in the nature of human individuals. Chromomes may be a mechanistic explanation but are neither the reason nor the underlying cause.

You could for example say that speed limit signs cause people to drive slowly. You could observe that and do some statistical correlation. Some people will drive faster and ignore the speed limit, but many will respect it. You could even say the speed limit sign is the cause of the slow driving in those who respect it. But the sign is not the reason for the speed limit. There will be a higher reason that caused the speed limit sign to be put there (for example a dangerous curve ahead). A guy with a spray can can change what the sign says, but he cannot change the reason it says it. His spray can will not make the dangerous curve go away.

 

[joseie]

Christ’s resurrected body bore the mark of wounds.Fire and worms in hell (Mark:9-43,44) is meant for a sensitive body. Seeing and praising God in heaven also indicate a body with live organs. Whatever scripture quotings ,interpretations etc. are made on the subject it is to be honestly admitted that except the knowledge that we may or may not be with God after death, we are completely in dark about the exact nature of our body on resurrection.For ex:
1.Whether the condition and appearance of the body will be as it was just before death?
2. If fire and worm simultaneously exist in hell they may not be of the type found on earth.Or is it that they are mentioned only symbolically to mean that there will be extreme suffering in hell ?
3.Body and organs mean gender exists in heaven.The body will be without sexual organs ? or with organs but without sexual feeling?.Other feelings are o.k.? or the body will have only one feeling namely to adore and praise God? Live body does not require food?
In short it would appear that the more we attempt to know about such matters the more complicated and confusing they become. May be that God put such matters beyond human intelligence and comprehension.

 

[GEddie]

Christ’s resurrected body bore the mark of wounds.Fire and worms in hell (Mark:9-43,44) is meant for a sensitive body. Seeing and praising God in heaven also indicate a body with live organs. Whatever scripture quotings ,interpretations etc. are made on the subject it is to be honestly admitted that except the knowledge that we may or may not be with God after death, we are completely in dark about the exact nature of our body on resurrection.For ex:
1.Whether the condition and appearance of the body will be as it was just before death?
2. If fire and worm simultaneously exist in hell they may not be of the type found on earth.Or is it that they are mentioned only symbolically to mean that there will be extreme suffering in hell ?
3.Body and organs mean gender exists in heaven.The body will be without sexual organs ? or with organs but without sexual feeling?.Other feelings are o.k.? or the body will have only one feeling namely to adore and praise God? Live body does not require food?
In short it would appear that the more we attempt to know about such matters the more complicated and confusing they become. May be that God put such matters beyond human intelligence and comprehension.

We will be human bodies, that’s established. Like the personae in Lk 16:19ff, we will have heads, eyes, hands, etc.Gender is as intrinsic to human bodyhood as these organs and extremities.
So while the physiology of the human pnuematikon soma and the material of its skin, bones, etc, are not presently clear to our minds, that there will be sex/gender is really not up for debate. There is after all, much more to such than the acts of sex.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PJM]

=Nanotwerp;12904970]I apologize severely beforehand. I get the feelings my posts seem to come out as if I’m a madman.

Is it wrong to believe that gender would be useless in Heaven? It seems like to have perfect bodies, gender would be removed. Isn’t gender like two sides of a coin, incomplete without the other? I want to be fully complete in heaven, and I feel like the removal of gender period would be an effect of this. Gender wouldn’t have use, anyway, since we’d be ‘married’ to God. I don’t know why, but this really bothers me. I don’t want there to be an ontological ‘opposite’ of me, I want to be ‘neutral’. Is all of this heresy?

:
When we die our bodies return to dust. Gen. 3:19, so then we ask How we meet God?

The answer is what I term our other self; our Spiritual reality.1st. Cor.15:44

In all of Creation only man has the ability to recognize God and that then become our reason to exist. Isiah 43: 7 & 21

In order to have the potential to "know of God and then to actually Know God; man is given a mind, intellect, & freewill. These gifts like God Gen. 1:26-27, are Spiritual realities that never die.

But God promises that we WILL have a new Life: 1st. Cor. 15:51-58; and be like Christ Risen in His Glorified body. So I suspect that at the Final Judgment, our bodies will reunited with our “Other self” Souls. hen however gender will be of no meaning as our very existence will be [our choice] to Glorify God continuously or to experience extreme suffering for all Eternity.

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[Nanotwerp]

:
When we die our bodies return to dust. Gen. 3:19, so then we ask How we meet God?

The answer is what I term our other self; our Spiritual reality.1st. Cor.15:44

In all of Creation only man has the ability to recognize God and that then become our reason to exist. Isiah 43: 7 & 21

In order to have the potential to "know of God and then to actually Know God; man is given a mind, intellect, & freewill. These gifts like God Gen. 1:26-27, are Spiritual realities that never die.

But God promises that we WILL have a new Life: 1st. Cor. 15:51-58; and be like Christ Risen in His Glorified body. So I suspect that at the Final Judgment, our bodies will reunited with our “Other self” Souls. hen however gender will be of no meaning as our very existence will be [our choice] to Glorify God continuously or to experience extreme suffering for all Eternity.

God Bless you,

Patrick

But it seems like gender just doesn’t go with the whole beatific vision/theosis thing. Does the existence of bodies naturally imply gender, even with spiritual bodies? I can understand our identity of our gender on earth, but our reproductive organs staying there would be useless.

 

[JimG]

In heaven there will be men and women, just as on earth.

 

[Nanotwerp]

It seems like God basically intended man to complete woman, and vice versa. Will we be complete in and of ourselves (By God’s power, of course) in heaven?

 

[Elizium23]

Q & A: Seven Properties of the Glorified Body

1. Quality: This is the property of the glorified body by which everyone in his glorified body will be as if in the prime of life. Although “marrying and giving in marriage” will not be part of our post-resurrection life, nevertheless we shall all be either male or female — the same gender God conferred on us at the moment of conception. Only in the post-resurrection life shall we adequately understand what it is to be masculine and feminine.

One of the great misunderstandings about gender derives from taking out of context something that St. Paul wrote. He wrote, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3,28). Some think that Paul is telling us that gender is ultimately irrelevant. The context indicates otherwise. If you read the verse in context, Paul is talking about Baptism, the rite by which both males and females enter into Christ. What Paul is saying is that all human beings — regardless of ethnicity, social standing or gender — enter into Christ Jesus in the same way and under the same terms.

More unfortunate usage of the incorrect term “gender” but you get the idea. This is from St. Thomas Aquinas.

Question 81. The quality of those who rise again

On the contrary, Augustine says (De Civ. Dei xxii): “Those are wiser, seemingly, who doubt not that both sexes will rise again.”

Further, at the resurrection God will restore man to what He made him at the creation. Now He made woman from the man’s rib (Genesis 2:22). Therefore He will also restore the female sex at the resurrection.

I answer that, Just as, considering the nature of the individual, a different quantity is due to different men, so also, considering the nature of the individual, a different sex is due to different men. Moreover, this same diversity is becoming to the perfection of the species, the different degrees whereof are filled by this very difference of sex and quantity. Wherefore just as men will rise again of various stature, so will they rise again of different sex. And though there be difference of sex there will be no shame in seeing one another, since there will no lust to invite them to shameful deeds which are the cause of shame.

 

[Peebo]

Don’t know if any of this is relevant…but Adam and Eve before the fall didn’t even see themselves as naked…our Lord…God the Son… revealed himself to us as a male…our Blessed Mother remained a avirgin her whole life…the Bible tells us we will be like the Angels…neither marrying nor given in marriage…we have religious priests and nuns and even lay people who devote their live to God and remain celibate…some their whole lives…sexuality in its purest form on the divine level may be something we can’t begin to imagine…it must be perfect because God created us and what we are…what we see and experience is corrupted because we have fallen from grace…maybe when we are in the presence of God we’ll just see the beauty that is his creation and nothing more

 

[Vico]

I believe gender lies in the nature of human individuals. Chromomes may be a mechanistic explanation but are neither the reason nor the underlying cause.

You could for example say that speed limit signs cause people to drive slowly. You could observe that and do some statistical correlation. Some people will drive faster and ignore the speed limit, but many will respect it. You could even say the speed limit sign is the cause of the slow driving in those who respect it. But the sign is not the reason for the speed limit. There will be a higher reason that caused the speed limit sign to be put there (for example a dangerous curve ahead). A guy with a spray can can change what the sign says, but he cannot change the reason it says it. His spray can will not make the dangerous curve go away.

As in the soul is the form of the body, the sex is formally one but may be flawed in the body. No telling how it will be expressed in the resurrected body, especially since marriage is not heavenly.